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Poland - Looking back to 1990.

11 Apr 2007 /  #1
I found this rather distressing doom mongering article written in the very early 1990's which seemed to predict that Poland wouldn't make it.
And here we are now 17 or so years later, and Poland does not seemed to have died a death at all. However, it is a somber reminder of the economic, political and social perils Poland has dealt with in the last 20 years. This recent history, which has shaped the generation of young Poles currently working in the UK and Eire. For many of the under 25 yrs olds, communism must seem exceptionally distant.

In my missus family her grandfather knew Poland before WWII, during, after and present day. My missus' mother knew Poland under communism and present day. My missus basically only remembersthe very end of communism and the present day and my little nephews know only the free market European world they now live in.

So thats 4 generations, all of whom have been subject to differing governing systems.
Its no wonder that the Poles are distrustful of the controlling elites.

Anyway back to the article below.

SUCH WAS the pace of events that no two pundits can even agree when the Polish revolution occurred. During the roundtable talks in April of last year, when the Communists agreed to renounce their monopoly of power? After the June 1989 elections, in which they were soundly defeated? In August, when Solidarity formed its own government? Perhaps Poland is not free at all, since completely unencumbered parliamentary elections have not yet been held. The confusion is so deep that one seasoned dissident-Mr. Kornel Morawiecki of Fighting Solidarity-remains in hiding, even though the Communist Party which had once persecuted him no longer exists.
Varsovian 92 | 634  
11 Apr 2007 /  #2
But I got married then!
13 Apr 2007 /  #3
you got maried then omg!!:)
mamma mia  
14 Apr 2007 /  #4
It must be very hard for a country to go through the transformation from communism to a free market. It's probably going to take another 20+ years before some semblance of stability and a new identity is established. It could be compared with being born and then having to make your way through the stages of childhood, adolescence, early adulthood, middle age, old age etc., so with this analogy in mind, PL is in the childhood phase - would you agree??
14 Apr 2007 /  #5
PL is in the childhood phase - would you agree??

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Have you ever been in Poland? Wake up!
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #6
PL is in the childhood phase - would you agree??

Nope. id say Poland is one of europes oldest cultures there is. But that when the EU was working together in growing economies, Poland was unable to do so due to communism and russsia, then the priority was the Polish Solidarity movement and now they are in the EU and it will only be 10-15years before Polands economey is as strong as any major EU player
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
14 Apr 2007 /  #7
Trollie mamma mia suggests that Poland doesn't possess even 'some semblance of stability.' Do you mean that Poland is extremely unstable? Prove it using specific facts. :) Mamma mia also suggests that Poland is in a 'childhood phase.' That's a vague metaphor, isn't it? Are you able to explain clearly and factually what you mean when you state that Poland is in a childhood phase?

Hm, what if it's mamma mia's perception of Poland and language describing Poland still in the extremely trumped-up and negative Cold War propaganda phase?

Secret is right to ask mamma mia: 'Have you ever been in Poland?' (sic).

Of course, even if somebody visits a given place there's no guarantee he or she will perceive the place as it actually is.

Daffy, I would like to see withing next 10-15 years, in fact the sooner the better, one large European economy, rather than separate national economies. But let this economy be European, for the European peoples first. I think EU should, nay, must stop expanding and put tough controls on immigration from without, at least for a long time, until our European house gets put in order.

Oops, in my reply to mamma mia I screwed one sentence. It should be:

'Hm, what if it's mamma mia's perception of Poland and his or her language describing Poland that are still in the extremely trumped-up and negative Cold War propaganda phase?'
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #8
at least for a long time, until our European house gets put in order.

I agree. We should have agreed the constitution before expanding even to poland but it is no harm. it is an advantage for poland to have a say in it now :)

but we must get it sorted now before any further accessions made.
TripTic 3 | 95  
14 Apr 2007 /  #9
...all this is a way deeper problem !!!

Poland as a nation always suffered from position on a map. I mean position between "anvil and the hammer" - between russia and germany. Both always tried to have them influences in Poland. Summary it's over 1 thousand years of invasions from germany, russia and other coutries. After WWII Poland was a under "russian management" for 44 years.

I do remember comunism in Poland. Was born in 1974, so i won't forget anti-communism riots on the streets with tanks, soldiers and tear gas in the air in 1980 and 1981. I won't forget 5-6 hours spent in the quene to bakery shop... it was something you guys ain't got a clue about.

About EU will takes ages!!! I know it's may sounds daft, but my personal opinoin is: It won't better until next generation of Poles take over power in government - i mean our kids !!! Is it not great !!!

..well my kids will hold different passport than polish :)
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #10
About EU will takes ages!!

well at least you see there will be positive changes :) I dont think it will take so long personally. Ive seen so much change in the last two years alone
TripTic 3 | 95  
14 Apr 2007 /  #11
In the last two years changes are negative whatsoever.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #12
ive seen very positive! the countries infrastructure for starts!! the roads are the foundations of a strong economy!
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
14 Apr 2007 /  #13
Of course, the effects of our joining the EU have been positive re our farmers, infrastructure, movement of capital, job markets open to us. If only our political situation, re relations with Russia and Germany got clarified, but it's not up to us, largely.
espana 17 | 910  
14 Apr 2007 /  #14
ive seen very positive

will be better in the future more
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #15
If only our political situation, re relations with Russia and Germany got clarified, but it's not up to us, largely.

i think the EU constitution will make this much clearer Puzzler :) n.html

Poland is ready to work on the text of the future EU constitution – said Poland’s president Lech Kaczynski during an informal meeting of the presidents of eight EU countries in the Latvian capital Riga.

At the same time Polish President Lech Kaczynski remarked that the text needs some changes.

Presidents from Austria, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Poland and Portugal took part in an informal summit in Riga hosted by Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga.

It was the fourth time that the leaders of the eight countries have gathered to debate topics of European importance.

The talks focused the future of the enlarged European Union and challenges connected with it. In the first debating session the presidents discussed the future of the EU's stalled Constitutional Treaty, EU integration and European competitiveness in a globalized world.

Speaking at a press conference in Riga, President Kaczynski also said that Ukraine could aspire to EU membership in 10 years.

He reiterated that Poland supports the EU and NATO bid of Ukraine, which is now in the middle of an internal political crisis.

Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
14 Apr 2007 /  #16
Actually, Daffy, in spite of the media not liking him, President Kaczynski is quite an astute and pro-European politician. I've got no doubts whatsoever he'll say yes to the Constitution.

I've got to run now, unfortunately. Take care you and all other friends.
daffy 23 | 1,508  
14 Apr 2007 /  #17
I've got no doubts whatsoever he'll say yes to the Constitution.

me neither, it would be daft to want to join the EU and NOT want it ( the UK has that old empire mentality at present but it will pass :))

Take care!
mamma mia  
14 Apr 2007 /  #18
Have you ever been in Poland?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have.

Most of you have taken my metaphor literally - and I wrote that in response to the many comments I've read on this forum about the "problems" in PL. Of course I know PL is an historic country, but my comment was about much more than that - missed by all of you - there is more to a country's stability than economic factors. I was merely contemplating that in terms of "modern development" i.e. post modern society - PL has a bit of catching up to do - no fault of their own, given that for decades it was closed off from the rest of the world. In a society where ideas, free thinking, progress, competition etc etc are suppressed, there are consequences. One doesn't need evidence to back this up - it pure logic. You guys take things too personally.

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