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massacres of poles in volhynia 1943


rafik 18 | 589  
12 Jul 2008 /  #1
do you know this part of the polish history?
unique relationship between poles and ukrainians now is something that both sides would never dream of 60 years ago.the victims were on BOTH sides of this unnecessary violence...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Jul 2008 /  #2
Improved Polish - Ukrainian relationship makes a thorn in Russian chauvinists' flesh.
Russia has built her superior imperial status on the false myth of " gathering Russian lands" and on the stolen Kievian Rus' heritage.
It's about all.
Plus agricultural resources of Ukraine.

Even todays stub of CCCP tries openly interfere in Ukrainian domestic affairs so we can count on political provocation in the future.

To avoid provocation we have to speak openly about Polish - Ukrainian history.
Actually it's a long chain of terrible Polish mistakes with the tragic final - Volhynnia slaughter.
And there is no way around - so called Ukrainian Insurgent Army and OUN are responsible for it.

They started the mass killings which resulted with 60 - 70 thousands Polish victims what is excellent proved by historians.
The number of Ukrainians killed is less known and if some historians (Polish or Ukrainians) claim 20 thousands it's speculation only.

I see perfect similarity with ethnic cleanings in Serbia.

But the reason for it was repressing the Ukrainian independence movements by Polish state.
Never ending story of Ukrainian rebels and Polish repressions.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #3
Oh boy which agricultural resources you talking about? They are buying not only gas and oil in Russia but wheat as well.
OP rafik 18 | 589  
12 Jul 2008 /  #4
you are right. the massacre was just the outcome of our mistakes and terrible mistreatment of the ordinary ukrainians by the magnats(polish upper class ) and the polish kings.they have never regarded the ukrainians as partners or even rightful citizens of rzeczposolita.this has been going on for centuries and the poles have never fully apologized for it.however,the latest events(orange revolution ect) has shown that the old wounds have healed and there is quite strong bond between the 2two nations.durind my travel to the krym peninsula i met and talked to many ukrainians and never felt any hostility towards me.lots of ukrainians work,trade and study in poland and,generaly,they are accepted by majority of the

poles.

ConstantineK
Today, 04:52 Report #3

Oh boy which agricultural resources you talking about? They are buying not only gas and oil in Russia but wheat as well.

ukraine was always called "the granary of russia/soviet union"
NewbornTic 1 | 14  
12 Jul 2008 /  #5
For all members who can read polish: wolyn.ovh.org/opisy/jezierce-03.html

Ukrainians bastards!!!

no comments!!!
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #6
I want to remark that Poland never will be able to prevent future reunion of Russia and Ukraine. Poland always lives in the dreams of self-importance but it is not true and if Poland will persist in this wrong policy, the severe tests is waiting her.
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Jul 2008 /  #7
quote=ConstantineK]I want to remark that Poland never will be able to prevent future reunion of Russia and Ukraine[/quote]

Constantine I'm deeply impressed with your last posting - I fully agree with you, my friend.

Poland has NOTHING to do with Ukrainian decisions.
But if your are reading Ursa's translations you may know my views.

I'm pro Ukrainian as a hell lol and I know that every day of freedom (from Russia) makes them more independent, more European, in the longer run more pro-NATO.

People like you make a great job for Ukrainian independence showing Russia's true face and imperialistic intentions.
Thanx bro.
OP rafik 18 | 589  
12 Jul 2008 /  #8
if Poland will persist in this wrong policy, the severe tests is waiting her.

LOL.this is a real russian.this statement says it all...
lesser 4 | 1,311  
12 Jul 2008 /  #9
Never ending story of Ukrainian rebels and Polish repressions.

the massacre was just the outcome of our mistakes and terrible mistreatment of the ordinary ukrainians by the magnats(polish upper class ) and the polish kings.

Nonsense. Practically Ukrainians magnates had the same rights like Polish magnates. While Ukrainian peasants the same rights like Polis peasants. We had even Ukrainian king, Michal Korybut Wiƛniowiecki. In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth people were not divided according to ethnic origin but social classes. You wrongly associate nationalist obsessions of future ages with this era.

Also perhaps we should wipe out German minority because "terrible mistreatment of the ordinary Poles by the German rulers"? Great excuse indeed!
scorpio 20 | 188  
12 Jul 2008 /  #10
Both the Poles and Ukrainians contributed to this conflict.

Poles, by being a minority population in most of the former Eastern Polish lands (majority only in most large cities and some rural regions, but not overall) and trying to rule and convert the majority population, the Ukrainians. No ethnic or religious group wants to be ruled by another one who represent less in numbers (the minority), in any given country.

Ukrainians were wrong for the way they acted revenge upon the Poles, especially during WII. If someone came into my house and wanted to be in charge, I also wouldn't be too happy, but I would first attempt peaceful dialogue.

This type of conflict is also a prime source of anti-Jewish feeling as well. In many countries, during and after WWI up until today, Jews were/are the minority in numbers, however, they are the majority when it comes to the media, economic and financial control. Primary examples are Adam Michnik of Poland and Victor Pinchuk of Ukraine. Both have Jewish roots with Michnik commanding a large portion of media interests in Poland, and Pinchuk controlling most of the metal industry in Ukraine. Many Christian Poles and Ukrainians in both countries aren't pleased with this fact. If you had Christian Arabs or Palestinians controlling Israel, Jews living there wouldn't too happy as well. There is war there anyway!

It is a social and ethnic dilemma. Nobody wants the minority to rule the majority, in any sense. It's a natural human feeling. Unfortunately, it creates great conflict and ill feeling.

I would propose that the Slavic nations of Central and Eastern Europe unite into one larger country, as Poland/Ukraine once unsuccessfully attempted to do. Due to religious cultural, patriotic, and ethnic differences, it would most likely never happen.
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Jul 2008 /  #11
lesser :You wrongly associate nationalist obsessions of future ages with this era.

C'mon ... speaking about 19 and 20 century events one has to asociate it with patriotism, nationalism or chauvinism.
No way around it.

Agreed, first rebelions had more social character (with some religious color).
lesser 4 | 1,311  
12 Jul 2008 /  #12
C'mon ... speaking about 19 and 20 century events one has to asociate it with patriotism, nationalism or chauvinism.
No way around it.

Yes, however this have nothing to do with history of Commonwealth. Also absolutely nothing can justify crimes of nationalist UPA bands against non-Ukrainian or even Ukrainian civilians.

Agreed, first rebelions had more social character (with some religious color).

What is interesting many from the most fervent Ukrainian nationalists were Uniates.
southern 75 | 7,096  
12 Jul 2008 /  #13
agricultural resources

Actually Ukraine supplies Russia with steel and mineral fertilizers and ammonia.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #14
ah Borrka all your efforts are vain because present ukranian government is on the Russian salary. They are doing a great job for us, preparing the ground for us by their quarrels.
southern 75 | 7,096  
12 Jul 2008 /  #15
present ukranian government is on the Russian salary

Even Timoshenko?Doesn't she get western salary?
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Jul 2008 /  #16
ukranian government is on the Russian salary

Again nice gesture of Kremlin - Yushchenko and Julia on your payroll. lol
Paying for on-going ukrainization, pro EU and pro NATO propaganda is like presenting Ukes with Crimea lol.
Let them have Sochi too.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #17
Who? This 'gas princess'? This is a many levels combination.
Dmowski - | 17  
12 Jul 2008 /  #18
self-importance

Poland has a population of 38mil. homogenous citizens, russia has 142mil. of citizens varying from mongolians to slavs, and the russians are not as well educated and not willing to work hard. Poland is not yet degenarated by western laziness and security feeling. In russia the state generates rather fictional threats to waken a nationalistic feeling and waken a urge to work at least a little and not drink all day long.

And chauvi comments like from you only strenghtens this feeling among the Poles, that it is upon to us to secure our prosperity.

Poland has given the world a lot through inventors throughout time and through soldiers who allways faught for the right cause - unlike russians who do not work and fight for condemnable causes and are traitors to their own people.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #19
ha-ha polish claims for higher cultural level comparing with Russia are totally ridiculous! It's just in your dreams! Just take a look on scientific achievements. Russia had alot in the part and still significant amount at present, Poland has or had none of them.
miranda  
12 Jul 2008 /  #20
Ukrainians bastards!!!

no comments!!!

what are you bubbling about. I am Ukrainian and I am not a bastard. Fecking moron.
scorpio 20 | 188  
12 Jul 2008 /  #21
Although born in the USA, I am of 62.5 % of Polish ethnicity, and 37.5% Ukrainian ethnicity, of the Catholic faith.

It hurts a bit when I see nonsense being spewed from either group against one another. Make peace and look towards the future.
Dmowski - | 17  
12 Jul 2008 /  #22
higher cultural level

St.Petersburg was not designed by a russian - you know? Shostakovichs father was a Pole. Few russians look the way they like to present themselfes. The good russians have polish or scandinavian blood. the vast majority of russians are heathen mongoloids. it lies within their nature to value collective interests above individual ones and history showed, they are willing to sacrifice innocent human life to proceed. poles are among the most individualistic peoples on earth.

while poland could proceed as a demogratic state, history showed, russia will allways turn into barbary or despotism. in russia you need a leader from the more noble tribes to rule the majority. often people state that russia historicaly disliked poland and lithuania for their rather liberal government, but i realized that this is just jealousy.
southern 75 | 7,096  
12 Jul 2008 /  #23
the vast majority of russians are heathen mongoloids

Do you exaggerate a bit?
Dmowski - | 17  
12 Jul 2008 /  #24
yes - but constantin is not easy going as well. phrases like, "Poland ... the severe tests is waiting her" make me feel angry towards russian chauvinism and high-handedness. If someone does not realize his position in this world it is rather russia not poland.

russians can only earn money by selling their resources like africans do ...
and rusty weapons decades behind modern technology, which africans buy ...
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
12 Jul 2008 /  #25
You are angry because you feel I an right. Of course, there is some exaggeration in my words too, but sure enough that the exacerbation of relations with Russia may serve as death foundation for Poland's future. Poland is playing a game of pawn, thinking that she is a queen. My advise, being more realistic you will find more advantages.
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Jul 2008 /  #26
"just take a look on scientific achievements."

It's totally off topic so I'll start a new thread on Russian achievements lol.
Just stick around.
Dmowski - | 17  
12 Jul 2008 /  #27
Thats not why I'm angry. I do not think you are right, you are a russian who likes to boss around and turn facts in a light that pleases him. read my posts again and you will see that I am right.

I get angry encountering russians like from a book. traitors allways throughout time. allways waited for a weak moment of the opponent and than broke treaties. seldom showed honorfull behaviour. expolited those within their sphere of power. and then excuse this behaviour by saying "thats the way we treat our population as well, you Poles were treated even better than the russians in russia." or something like that.

but poland has sovereignty now and it would suite russia better not interfering with our national matters.

maybe in future, once russia is divided up among its nationalities, thing will go better.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
12 Jul 2008 /  #28
This was the artical in the news.

Ukraine is not aware of Volhynia

64.233.179.104/translate_c?

wyborcza.pl/1,75515,5443008,Ukraina_nie_wie_o_Wolyniu.

wyborcza.pl/1,75515,5443008,Ukraina_nie_wie_o_Wolyniu.html

For all members who can read polish:

Thank you for the information. Just as I try to not place blame on Russian for the Soviets crimes, you must try to not blame todays Ukrainian's for the crimes of the past. I feel your pain and totally understand your hurt.

IMO What needs to take place is Ukrainian's (just as Russian's) needs to take responsablity for actions of their actions. How anyone can feel the past will be forgotten is beyond me. When this takes place a new relationship based on trust can begin.

It is a crime in Ukraine to deny the crimes of 1932-33. Yet they continue to do this. Poland has alot of information on the crimes as they have asked Ukraine to deal with this. Poland has made an apology for negitive behavior directed towards Ukrainian's, we still await for Ukraine to do the same, as they stated they would.
NewbornTic 1 | 14  
12 Jul 2008 /  #29
I am Ukrainian and I am not a bastard. Fecking moron

I didn't mean you but these sick bastards who killed my grandpa's first wife, 5yrs old daughter, 1 yr old son and 360 other innocent people in 1943.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
12 Jul 2008 /  #30
It hurts a bit when I see nonsense being spewed from either group against one another. Make peace and look towards the future.

No, keep fighting and let the Jews and the EU handle your affairs...that is the tradition, right?...Hitler said that Slavs were incapable of governing themselves.

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