Jews...and their Polish experience

I have raised this on a number of occasions on the board about what Polish peoples attitude was to jews, both in past history and currently.

With particular reference to the attitude of the Polish government towards Jews in the early part of the last century and then in the decade before WWII

A new biography written by a guy called Roman Halter has been printed, called Romans Journey; details his life living in a village called Chodecz, along with 700 other Jews.

Post war only 4 of the 700 survived. He returns to his home after the war to find it occupied by 3 families who denied him access and berated him for wanting it back.

Can anyone fill the board in on the actual history of anti-semiticsm in Poland, the churches/states attitude, then and now...and current attitudes amongst the local population..is it acknowledged, is it taught in school, what spin is put on it etc.

Frank,

This might give some help.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4465954.stm

Wroclaw, thanks for that, the article very much focuses on the future...but was more interested in the past....over the last 100 yrs...WWII....experiences..attitudes etc...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1431753.stm

I think I might have posted this earlier.

It shows a connection to the past.

True...but hoped for the boards views, experiences....local Polish sources, not from the BBC!

Before II WW there were 6 millions Jews living in Poland and Poland was seen as the most open-minded and friendly towards other nations society in Europe. Then we were attacked by Germany, Hitler decided to built death camps in Poland because here were the most Jews in the eatrh.

Anti-semiticism in Poland is a myth. The is still the biggest synagogue in the wolrd and polish people risked their lifes helping Jews during II WW. I wont deny that there were disgraceful behaviours during the war but you must understand that it was the war and every nation has bandits Im afraid.

I was reading article recenty in Gazeta Wyborcza interwiev with Jews abbassador who lives in Poland. He said that Poland should not be seen as anit-semistics county because he lives here all his life and didnt notice anything like that.

I personally would like to war never happened in the past and I would like these 6 millions of Jews (now their children) living in Poland :(.

Frank,

OK. I'd like to hear what others have to say as well. I'll keep shtum.

Well according to the BBC...90% of the Jewish population were murdered......ergo that left...60000 at the end of the war.....but currently there are only 25000 who claim to be of the Jewish faith....??!!

Ola calim....can be challenged, ie Poland the most friendly of nations...but history states that anti-semitiscm was rife....thoughts?

What history? History of war? History of bandists? Bandists can not represent all nation. Before the II WW the most Jews in the world were in Poland. FACT. And it was because we were the most friendly nation towards them.

Could anyone fill the board in on the actual history of anti-Polonism among Jews ? That would be more interesting for me.


~3.3 million.

Really? I could mess with it indeed. :)

Worry not, uncel Greg is always ready to help you :)

awwwww :), happy New Year then :).

Doesn't add up...yes it was true Poland had the biggest Jewish population in Europe, why, did relations then sour/change?

So the Jews bit the hand that fed them?

To you too. :)

No. They were destroyed by Hitler.


Poles were not always helpul because Hiltlers army killled all polish families that helped Jews. There were some voices that accused Jews of the war (you know, "they attacked us because of Jews"). I can see their (Jews) point, there could be done more but not everyone wanted to risk their own, their children and parents life to help. I always wonder though how different nation would react in our situation and looking at France it doesnt look too bright.

Well, I've got some knowledge about this issue, but now I'm getting ready for the party... maybe tomorrow If the headache won't be terrible :)

But prior to the war....not during when those terrible retributions were taken.....anti-semitiscm was common place?


I think this happened in other countries too.

In fact not. It didnt happen in different countries. Read about France for example.

Examples were made in all occupied countries....not sure if everyone was shot who helped or were or deported or imprisoned or just their homes destroyed.

What sick person you are? Typical thinking about "polish antisemitic". I will tell you one thing I love Jews, Romanians, Russians etc. But I don't like one nation... Germans and this is in my genes I think. This stupid stories about Polish ANTI-SEMITISM is just so so unrealistic. Have you been to Poland? Did you see that common man is attacking a Jews? LOL, Did you read all these lies in Gross book "FEAR"? His statements are clearly anti-Polish. Baby think twice and remember that Polish people is the most known in World for saving Jews during WWII.


OMG look what now is happening in France, where Prime minister of Israel told Jews to come back to Israel from France because of Antisemitism. All vandal actions toward Jews are taking place all over Europe, not in Poland, but to Poland EU told us "we are antisemitic". This is HYPOCRISY. during WWII Germany told us who is good and who is not, and so they do now cuz they rule in EU.

And one more thing I am proud that I have Anti-German statement, but I can't say I'm Antisemitic why? well, I don't know them, I saw a Jew maybe twice, but in UK. I don't have any arguments to hate them, but I can clearly say: that is obvious that I can dislike Germans, I have a right to do so. I like Dutch people, why? because they hate Germans - the most cruel nation in all history. Look what they did with Old-Prussians and other nations.

Frank, I think the anti Jewish thing is largely a beef up and people who bring it up just want to cause tension and division, the way the question is asked sometimes implies that there is a problem, how much longer are we going to hear that Poland was anti Jewish in the war, lets move on, we live in 2007.

Like all nationalities there are bad ones in every camp, unfortunately when you criticize a Jew for whatever reason you are branded anti Semitic.
Remember the poles had it bad in ww2, I wonder how many Jews helped poles during this time, we all know poles assisted Jews and when caught were executed.


This occurred to everyone returning to Poland after the war, not only for the Jews.

Excuse me....by making a comment in this fashion merely shows YOU up as the sick person...thanks very much!


Stupid ???.....being noted and reported by a number of established historians...no I don't think ...so..

No more than a few months ago...a rabbi was attacked in broad daylight in Warsaw.....and was widely reported......I think you need to brush up on your current affairs ...!


Thats your interpretation....merely asking for the boards experiences....whats taught in schools etc....again if you read my post....going back 100 years.....pre war...WWII and then during the communist period.......and lastly up to the current day......


I have no idea...but remember..Poland was a nation....Jews were an ethnic group within the nation.......quite a different scenario!!


I have no doubt it did, and they were terrible times for all your countrymen.....but given that there were virtually no jews left in Poland.....I expect that they in turn weren't occupying Polish peoples home to anything like the extent as quoted!

Frank and what your nation did for Jews during II WW? Oh I see f**k all. Stop accusing us because we were attacked.

Rabin was attacked blah blah. Mabye but is it just Poland? Or maybe it happens all over Europe and more often than here? At least Polish nation dont destroy Jews cementaries like it happens in the Western Europe. And btw I must have missed that story with rabin (if you didnt make it up). Give me a link to this story.

What is taught in schools? Are you making a laugh??? Yes we are taught to hate Jews you know like in Borat, we have our own celebrity where we laugh at Jews - did you want to hear that, of course you did. Stereotypes. First look at yourself, noone is perfect and we are any worse than other European nations towards Jews although comparing us to France and some others we are better.

What is with this Western Europeans obsession to point fingers at us not noticing their own sins at the same time????? Do you think you are better nation or what? It is so easy to accuse and judge sitting in your own warm home not suffering war at your homeland. Im more than confident that most nations in our situation would do to the Jews the same what France did at that time.

And no offence Frank but your knowledge is very poor:

"Examples were made in all occupied countries....not sure if everyone was shot who helped or were or deported or imprisoned or just their homes destroyed."

In Poland there were no examples. You completely dont know what are you talking about. Examples. Christ! Hang your head in shame and off back too school, must study harder.

Jewish people made Poland their home in the past as well as now because they were (are) most welcome there. They could thrive with their businesses, education, arts - unlike at the homelands of western accusers who dare talk about polish anti-semitism.

Some Poles may have resented it but not enough to make it such a big issue.

The blabbers make it an issue because they like to instigate.

Pardon...?........Ireland was neutral.....even so many tens of thousands volunteered to fight in the British army..Ireland had a jewish population too...because German/Russia despised Poland so much was someone elses fault...?....the answer is no.


Example was given........why rubbish it...don't like the truth?....


Again you twist my query...asking...about the history, of your own country...do Polish people know if anti-semitiscm was common, who carried it out etc......obviously this is a difficult area to examine...ask questions about.


Speculation....


Why am I asking questions...to get answers...am not a historian...but then again neither are you........lol


Thanks for your inclusiveness...a big help........coulda swore this board was supposed to be in English......

"western accusers who dare talk about polish anti-semitism."

So you're telling me not to ask..........you don't like discussion/debate.....getting answers to questions?....sound familiar.........!!

"The blabbers make it an issue because they like to instigate."

And you have proved answers to my questions...reasoned debate...reflection...no....as I would have expected...:)

Yes because you were cowardly looking and did f**k all. Just accuse from your warm island, easy isnt it?

You asked the questin - we answer you, you are wrong, there is no more antisemitism in Poland than in Europe, in fact there is less. Jewish nation confirmed that in article I posted.

The same rabin who was attacked said in this article that Poland is seen WRONG by Western Europe as anti-Jews country proof is that he feels safe in Poland and during so many years living in Poland was attacked once.

And btw how can you make 40 million nation responsible for the one who attacked. Sorry but this question comes : Are you dumb?

No....you can't come to that conclusion......the only reason other countries fought was because they were attacked..........you logic is completely missing?

Did you big bear Russian neighbour come to your aid...no.....did any other ...no...who declared war and at least stood up to germany...?...whose people were part of that army....?...well there ya go!


That is great to know.....but I did ask about 100yrs ago...pre war...and during the communist period..........any feedback?


Ah...I see I am edcuating you Ola...glad to be of service...........am only asking questions Ola....not attacking you, your family or Poland.......


Eeeemmmmm...it appears you've asked yourself this question...and answered in the positive!

OK, the headache is not so terrible, so here we go...

Jews were invated to Poland in the Middle Ages, when they were persecuted in the most of Western Europe, they even got special rights, which other people didn't have, sure that wasn't pure love, but Poland was losing many people in countless wars, so simply needed more people, but anyway facts matter. Without that Jews If survived would be something like native Americans today.

It got worse in 19th century, when Poland lost independence and Poles realized that minorities, especially Jews didn't really care abou that. That's when the whole Polish nationalism was born, before people in Poland were first of all divided into nobelmen and peasants, not into nationalities. Jews not only weren't patriotic, usually they didn't even bother to learn the language and assimilate.

During WW2 not so many people were helping Jews, but very few collaborated (Poland was the only country without collaboration government or any other serious collaboration forces) and most were just trying to survive, 3 million Polish "goys" (non Jews) were killed and they couldn't help themselves, so how they could help someone else ?

If you ask If there was anti-semitism in Poland, the answer can't be other than yes, but Poland and Poles generally did more good than bad for Jews and anti-Semitism in 19th and early 20th century was maybe not justified but let's say not surprising in that situation.

Unfortunately many Jews (especially American) today is spreading anti-Polish propaganda, which especially in case of WW2 and a country, which lost the most and a nation, which suffered less than only Jews and Gypsies is shocking and simply disgusting.

Let's take a look at this from your first post:
"Post war only 4 of the 700 survived. He returns to his home after the war to find it occupied by 3 families who denied him access and berated him for wanting it back."

For a western reader, who has little idea about situation in Poland during and after WW2 that's of course "Polish antisemitism", the author knows that, so of course he "forgot" to add that about 50% of buildings in Poland were destroyed or seriously damaged (in Warsaw over 90%), so people were moving to whatever was still standing. What these 3 families should have done ? Got frozen looking at the empty house, whose owners were probably dead ? Or take their children and leave to the forest, when mr. owner came back and wanted to have a large house only for himself ?

By the way, about attack on a rabbi... you know how he was "attacked" ? Some guy threw a few fu*ks at him, pushed him and run away, there are probably a few thousand of such "attacks" every day in London alone and that this was "widely reported" is not a prove of anti-semitism but rather anti-Polonism.

Grzegorz,

Very informative. Thanks.