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Drang nach Osten.


Borrka 37 | 594  
19 Oct 2008 /  #1
Interesting presentation of German expansionism throughout centuries
Don't cry Würstel (BB) you are not alone:

In Westpreussen sitzt, eine trauernde Magd
Am Ufer der Weichsel und weint.
MEIN GRAUDENZ, MEIN DIRSCHAU, MEIN DANZIG O SAG!
WANN WERDEN WIR WIEDER VEREINT?

Marek 4 | 867  
19 Oct 2008 /  #2
After WW II, Poland was in no position to demand former territories, "taken", purloined, what have you, by the Nazis, as it to ad suffered tremendous losses. The German Empire of Karl The Great, extended far into what is today the Baltic States, small wonder. The "Drang nach Osten" goes back to the time of the German Crusaders, during the Middle Ages.

Today, seventeen years or so following German reunification, Poland is still demanding from a reuinted Germany that certain former occupied areas be "returned" to Poland, furthermore, that German school books kindly NOT refer to Gdańsk, Bydgoszcz, Olsztyn, Szczecin etc. as Danzig, Bromberg, Allenstein and Stettin-:)

Just my two euros worth on this most controversial of threads.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
19 Oct 2008 /  #3
Well...what about polish "Drang nach Westen"???
The whole of today Germany/Poland was once the realm of germanic tribes. Now look at the history...you came and came and shoved and pushed and came and shoved and pushed!

Germans were only taking back what belongs to them!

Just my two cents to that so not controversial thread....there are undeniable facts that WE WERE HERE FIRST!

Today, seventeen years or so following German reunification, Poland is still demanding from a reuinted Germany that certain former occupied areas be "returned" to Poland,

Erm....and which ones??? I never heard of that....

that German school books kindly NOT refer to Gdańsk, Bydgoszcz, Olsztyn, Szczecin etc. as Danzig, Bromberg, Allenstein and Stettin-:)

Why not?
First the english refer to Nürnberg as Nuremburg for example but most importantly no germanic tongue survives a "Bydgoszcz", a "Olsztyn", or a "Szczecin"!

...and anyway...now everybody can go and live where he wants. Isn't the EU just great? :)

*leaves thread bored*

PS:

Don't cry Würstel (BB) you are not alone:

There is no need to cry anymore....:):):)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
19 Oct 2008 /  #4
The whole of today Germany/Poland was once the realm of germanic tribes

Kind of. It wasn't, then it was, then it wasn't. When (if ever) did people stop being tribes?

the english refer to Nürnberg as Nuremburg

It's a shame really because I quite like the smiley-face umlaut ü. My computer never turns it into one of those hideous yellow "emoticons".

Is Londyn the same place as Llundain?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
19 Oct 2008 /  #5
well BB, time to head North then, not East.

Germanic haplogroupS (the darker the more Germanic):

This is where Germanic tribes were located in the Bronze age:



Theories about the origin of Slavs: The location of the speakers of pre-Proto-Slavic and Proto-Slavic is subject to considerable debate. Serious candidates are cultures on the territories of modern Belarus, Poland, European Russia and Ukraine.

If anybody pushed anybody that was Germans pushing Slavs.:)
Marek 4 | 867  
21 Oct 2008 /  #6
"If anybody pushed anybody, that was Germans pushing Slavs.:)"

Darius's absolutely correct, at least if you go by the historical sources, and not Slavic ones either, but German texts too which tell of the need, practically the 'Manifest Destiny' of the Germanic peoples, to conquer the Slavic, i.e. non-German, but soon to become German, lands. A good analogy might be the US white settlers during the early years of the American Republic, believing the fate to conquer was theirs over the territory of the Native Americans and pushing back the as yet non-existant frontiers until all Indian Territory belonged to the United States.

Whilst certain stories of German barbarism have been know to be exaggerated, e.g. the supposedly documented bayonetting of Belgian babies during WW I, Eisenstein's "Alexander Nevsky" (1938) does document accurately the atrocities of the Germanic Knights in Livonia during their conquests to claim Russian land, consigning the infants of local landowners to the flames, amid setting fire to the surrouding inhabited areas.
Poznan 5 | 46  
23 Oct 2008 /  #7
Germans never dominated Poznań. They have lost in trade war. They were bought out or polonisated. Bamber ( polonisated german settler) means savage in our dialect.

Now when we are part of EU we can make economical expansion in eastern Germany.
Marek 4 | 867  
23 Oct 2008 /  #8
The Teutons may never have 'dominated' Poznań, however, practically every major (and even some minor) Polish cities or towns still bear historical German place names given them by their supposed 'conquerors', e.g. "Poznań" = Posen etc.....

By conquerors, I mean of course trading partners, who nonethless were the dominant players at the time, roughly around the Vasa period during the sovereignty of the Hanseatic League.
Poznan 5 | 46  
23 Oct 2008 /  #9
And we call Munich - Monachium Rome - Rzym, Paris - Paryż, London - Londyn.

So what ?

Poznan has beautiful history. I don't know why you talk about Teutons I am talking about 19 and 20 century.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf

Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans. The long-lasting effect of the Polish-German conflict in the area was development of a sense of Greater Polish identity, distinct from the identity common in other parts of Poland and primarily associated with nationalist ideas rather than socialism, prevailing in other parts of the country in 20th century.

One Polish town against economic power of whole German empire and Polish Poznań bought them out.

In 1918 Poles made uprise and joined Poland.
Hueg - | 320  
23 Oct 2008 /  #10
I hear on the grapevine the Austrians want Holland back. It would certainly give kaffee und kuchen a new dimension. :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
23 Oct 2008 /  #11
Holland is lost...such a mud of foreigners now, who would want it back!

The Teutons may never have 'dominated' Poznań, however, practically every major (and even some minor) Polish cities or towns still bear historical German place names given them by their supposed 'conquerors', e.g. "Poznań" = Posen etc.....

And??? What's your beef with that?
The german names are much nicer than the polish ones...just compare the nice sounding "Breslau" to the polish "Wrotzwaw"...puleeeze!

:)
southern 75 | 7,096  
23 Oct 2008 /  #12
...just compare the nice sounding "Breslau" to the polish "Wrotzwaw"...puleeeze!

:)

Krakow sounds better than Krakau.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
23 Oct 2008 /  #13
There isn't much difference phonetically....
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
23 Oct 2008 /  #14
Krakow sounds better than Krakau.

or kielbasa. kielbasa sounds much more tastey than bratwurst. bratwurst is a good name for some kind of military heavy equipment [:
southern 75 | 7,096  
23 Oct 2008 /  #15
Poznan vs Posen:Not much difference in sound
Stettin vs Sczeczyn:I prefer Stettin,it sounds more elegant
Danzig vs Gdansk:Danzig sounds like good old,Gdansk sounds modern,vibrant
Eilau vs Ilawa:Ilawa.Much more feminine
Klodzko vs Glatz:Both sound terrible.Klodzko sounds more bulgarian.
Olsztyn vs Oldenburg:I prefer Olsztyn.much more exotic.
Gliwice vs Gleiwitz:Gleiwitz sounds funny.
Berlin vs Barlin:Barlin reveals more of the character of the city.Berlin does not sound german.
Munchen vs Mnichov:Mnichov sounds like another small slavic town,nobody heard of.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837  
23 Oct 2008 /  #16
Munchen vs Mnichov

Mnichov is the Czech name. The Polish for Munchen is Monachium. I prefer the sound of Monachium ;-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
23 Oct 2008 /  #17
bratwurst is a good name for some kind of military heavy equipment [:

...and MY Bratwurst is the best! :):):)

The Polish for Munchen is Monachium.

"Monachium" is polish??? Are you sure? Sounds latin to me...
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
23 Oct 2008 /  #18
or kielbasa. kielbasa sounds much more tastey than bratwurst. bratwurst is a good name for some kind of military heavy equipment [:

Hehhe... Even the word for friendship, freundschaft, sounds like some vicious military organization. ;)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
23 Oct 2008 /  #19
Oh pleaaaseee...you are just obsessed with military Germany!
And it isn't a tongue breaker like "Przyjaźń"! How do you get that out of your mouth???

You definitely need more vowels...
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Oct 2008 /  #20
freundschaft,

sounds painful if you ask me ;-)

...and MY Bratwurst is the best! :):):)

Prove it! We only have your word for that... :)

(Im actually quite partial to a bit of german sausage - only a few weeks before the xmas market arrives :) )

Oh pleaaaseee...you are just obsessed with military Germany!

I've already told you It's only because of the uniforms! ;-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
23 Oct 2008 /  #21
Prove it! We only have your word for that... :)

Here! *waves Bratwurst at Shelley* See?

:):):)
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
23 Oct 2008 /  #22
Oh pleaaaseee...you are just obsessed with military Germany!

Achtung achtung! I kid I kid, I joke I joke! :)

You definitely need more vowels...

Hehehe... I think the same about Montenegroes, Serbs et all. Crna Gora, Srbija... hehhee
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Oct 2008 /  #23
Here! *waves Bratwurst at Shelley* See?

phrrrooor lovely sausage!! :)

You know Im glad that I live on an Island, whilst we have been plundered and whatnot in the past, Im sooooooooooo glad that we never have to argue about boarders :)
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
23 Oct 2008 /  #24
Yeah, they can be really irritating neighbors at times. ;)
gtd 3 | 639  
23 Oct 2008 /  #25
You know Im glad that I live on an Island, whilst we have been plundered and whatnot in the past, Im sooooooooooo glad that we never have to argue about boarders :)

Can you imagine the UK being renamed Zjednoczone Królestwo and being overrun with cabbage farms? Oh the horror.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
23 Oct 2008 /  #26
I think the same about Montenegroes, Serbs et all. Crna Gora, Srbija... hehhee

And Czechs...
Lepší jeden prd než deset doktorů... Sorry for my two kopeykas. Keep going guys you're doing fine. :)
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Oct 2008 /  #27
Yeah, they can be really irritating neighbors at times. ;)

I can imagine :)

Can you imagine the UK being renamed Zjednoczone Królestwo and being overrun with cabbage farms? Oh the horror.

We're surrounded by water so it helps to keep the riff raff out :)
Hueg - | 320  
23 Oct 2008 /  #28
glad that we never have to argue about boarders

It's more stowaways that get us going. :)
gtd 3 | 639  
23 Oct 2008 /  #29
We're surrounded by water so it helps to keep the riff raff out :)

I guess all the militant Muslims and families of immigrants living in peoples' attics are good swimmers. ;)
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Oct 2008 /  #30
Good point - maybe we need some sharks for them there waters!

It's more stowaways that get us going. :)

:) (Hi Hueg - how's going chicken?)

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