Czterej pancerni i pies- Communist propaganda?

Filios1 8 | 1336

25 Mar 2009 / #1

What are your thoughts on this 'seriał' that was aired in communist Poland, and continues to be shown? Is it wrong to show such Polish-Russian comaradery in light of Katyn, and Russian invasion in 1939?

In my opinion, it should continued to be shown. Many ordinary Russian soldiers fought well to free Poland later in the war, although it was to be bittersweet for Poland. Fact remains that many of our Russian brothers blood stains Polish soil... Stalin's agenda was Stalin's agenda. But ordinary Russians conscripted into the army did not have much of a say. Another fact is that Russians did not rape, or murder while passing through Poland. Only on rare instances which you will find in any army filled with men who have not had female companionship for such a long time...

I don't think anyone should take the show for anything more than entertainment purposes. Much of it is flawed, although the equipement, tanks, weapons are all real. Most of that was used from post-War Soviet military stockpiles.

My favourite song:

time means 5 | 1309

25 Mar 2009 / #2

Another fact is that Russians did not rape, or murder while passing through Poland.

How jolly decent of them. Was it ok to rape German women?

OP Filios1 8 | 1336

25 Mar 2009 / #3

Was it ok to rape German women

German Wehrmacht and SS murdered, raped, tortured women and children on their way through Russia in 1940 and beyond... Was it o.k for them? No. Simply, Russians remembered this when the tides turned, and it was their turn to invade Germany.

Another fact is that near the end of the war effort, a big chunk of the Red Army was made up of men from the far reaches of Russia, from the steppe, and also, criminals evacuated from prisons to be cannon fodder. When these kind of barbaric men pass through a rich country like Germany, without having seen a woman, don't you think that some pillaging and raping will happen?

hairball 20 | 313

25 Mar 2009 / #4

What are your thoughts

It's no different from the 'west's' propagandist view of this period. My wife's family watch it and just laugh at the irony.

time means 5 | 1309

25 Mar 2009 / #5

don't you think that some pillaging and raping will happen?

A case of what goes around comes around.

McCoy 27 | 1268

25 Mar 2009 / #6

Was it ok to rape German women?

ooh, they pumped a lot of slavic genes into the German nation.

time means 5 | 1309

25 Mar 2009 / #7

How jolly decent of them.

sjam 2 | 541

25 Mar 2009 / #8

Another fact is that Russians did not rape, or murder while passing through Poland.

Stalin's army of rapists: The brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore
By Andrew Roberts

When the historian Antony Beevor wrote about it in his book Berlin: The Downfall, the Russian ambassador to London, Grigory Karasin, accused him of 'an act of blasphemy', saying: 'It is a slander against the people who saved the world from Nazism.'

Similarly, living Germans do not want the events that humiliated and violated them, their mothers and grandmothers to be held up to public examination,

OP Filios1 8 | 1336

25 Mar 2009 / #9

Only on rare instances

Sjam:
Next time, please quote the entire phrase, thank you..

which had been pro-Nazi, but also in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, which had not been

Any numbers though? Probably in the hundreds? Of course, this is what you can expect when an army has many criminals enlisted so late in the war...

Like I said, there were rapes in these countries, but nowhere near as widespread in the Axis.
Some Russian soldiers even raped concentration camp victims. This is surely a sign of deviant behaviour and not some standard in the Red Army.

sjam 2 | 541

25 Mar 2009 / #10

Warsaw 'liberated' by the Red Army January 1945; Halina Gorcwicz her memoir Why, Oh God, Why?
writes of page 280:

Terrible things were happening in the period immediately following my return to Warsaw. Large numbers of Warsaw people were settling in among the ruins wherever and however they could. Russian soldiers were prowling round the houses and knocking on doors, garlanded with sausage rings, with bottles of vodka in their pockets, looking for dziewoczki (girls). They were often persistent, blocking partly-opened doors with a foot, forcing their way in like wild animals and raping women. In this manner two of my former friends, the Zdunczyk girls, were murdered in front of their parents, who were terribly beaten up because when they answered the door they maintained that there were no girls in the house.

Rape, robbery, attacks and great lawlessness reigned. God forbid if the Russians learned that someone had taken part in the Uprising. They were judged by a kangaroo court and executed on the spot. Later there were arrests and transportation to "the white bears"—or Syberia—where they were finished off. Many people of my acquaintance were killed in this way.

OP Filios1 8 | 1336

27 Mar 2009 / #11

sjam

And your point?

sjam 2 | 541

27 Mar 2009 / #12

sjam:
sjam

And your point?

A simple point.

Another fact is that Russians did not rape, or murder while passing through Poland.

Rape and murder in Poland by the 'liberating' Red Army seems to have been documented as I have posted #8 and #11.

I need not post more to prove the point that in actual fact what you state is not a fact at all!

OP Filios1 8 | 1336

1 Apr 2009 / #13

I need not post more to prove the point that in actual fact what you state is not a fact at all!

You fool, look at the next sentence! I don't deny that it ever happened!

Cenowski - | 63

1 Apr 2009 / #14

back to point of topic before people wet them selves with blame on the what the slinty eyed mongol troops did the majority off and some criminals.....Czterej pancerni i pies is best series going, dosnt matter how adapted it is for whatever reason, it just good stuff

only issue i have is that same seens you clearly see were ran out of props and threw in some ak wih ofcourse wenrnt made until 47, maybe was some commi advertising or something.....

its worth watching for anyone who likes what ever politik

sjam 2 | 541

2 Apr 2009 / #15

Filios1:
Another fact is that Russians did not rape, or murder while passing through Poland.

So in the next sentence you say these "Russian brothers" did rape and murder Poles in Poland? If that is the case then what is the point of writing the first contradictory sentence where you catagorically state as actual fact the Russians did not rape and murder in Poland? So who is the fool who can't even read or understand what they themselves have written :-)

Stalin condoned rape as an instrument of state military policy. Didn't Stalin say something along the lines that, "people should understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle".

Was rape and murder by the Red Army just a few isolated cases in Poland? Did "our Russian brothers" say to themselves, "Hang on guys let's wait until we get to Prussia before we have some fun with a trifle"? Certainly not.

"Ravishing the Women of Conquered Europe"

"... 182 Catholic nuns were raped. In the diocese of Kattowitz 66 pregnant nuns were counted. In one convent when the Mother Superior and her assistant tried to protect the younger nuns with outstretched arms, they were shot down. A priest reported in Nord Amerika magazine for November 1, 1945, that he knew "several villages where all the women, even the aged and girls as young as twelve, were violated daily for weeks by the Russians."

A few of our slitty eyed mongol Russian brothers no doubt!

Cenowski - | 63

2 Apr 2009 / #16

A few of our slitty eyed mongol Russian brothers no doubt

yes true of in Berlin, the higest reports included them but then ofcourse not all, Stalinw as shti bad and svoiet army was rabble of normal troops just fight for sake of revenge, family, Russia to exsit again and so on, but unfortunatly many criminals and nutcases were let out to make up the numbers..... just one of the bad things from the great red plague