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Dziewczyna i koń.... Dziewczynka i pies


Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
8 Oct 2007 /  #1
If these two statements are correct, why is there a "k" in the second spelling of Dziewczyna? I assume both horse and dog are masculine words. Also is there a difference in the polish spelling of girl and girlfriend. Thanks
Ronek 1 | 261  
8 Oct 2007 /  #2
dziewczyna = girl or girlfriend
dziewczynka = young girl or baby girl
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
8 Oct 2007 /  #3
Thanks Ronek, that's makes sense to me now.
Michal - | 1,865  
9 Oct 2007 /  #4
nce in the polish spelling of girl and girlfriend. T

Yes, there is obviously a great difference between the word girl and if you want to be more specific about a relationship situation as you could use the word partnerka (a partner) or the Polish word przyjaciolka, which has a similar meaning to girl friend.
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
9 Oct 2007 /  #5
Thanks, Michal for the info. At the time, I was looking at a text book and it did not have a difference between girl and girlfriend, just quoted Dziewczyna for both.
Arkady  
9 Oct 2007 /  #6
Dziewczynka is a diminutive form of Dziewczyna.

Partnerka, on the other hand, is a feminine form of Partner, so while the ending attached to the root seems to be the same as in the first case, it is, in fact, a different morphological process.
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
10 Oct 2007 /  #7
Thanks Arkady.

One more question please. In a short statement like "kobieta w samochodzie" is the "w" silent? I have heard it spoken a few times but can't seem hear it. Thanks
Arkady  
10 Oct 2007 /  #8
No, "w" is not silent in this case. This expression should be pronounced as "...fsamo..."

You probably don't hear it because this kind of consonant cluster doesn't exist in english (your native language is english, isn't it) so it's difficult for you to take notice of it. I'm guessing here and I'm not a professional teacher however I have a feeling that "f" might be indeed slightly blurred or reduced in this particular case. It's still there, nonetheless.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
10 Oct 2007 /  #9
The only truely silent letter I have found so far is the (barred) L in jablko.
There must be a few more waiting to pounce on me.
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
10 Oct 2007 /  #10
Thanks Arkady, I was listening for a "v" sound at first and then when you said "f" I remembered that the w changes to f sometimes. However I have just played it several times again, it still seems like it is being missed out.

Maybe the recording is wrong, or like you said, its very faint, then again I might be going deaf. :) Thanks once again for your help and, it's much appreciated.

The only truely silent letter I have found so far is the (barred) L in jablko.
There must be a few more waiting to pounce on me.

Yes I read somewhere that there are no silent letters in Polish, but I am starting to think different now :)
Arkady  
10 Oct 2007 /  #11
Actually, I think that 'jablko' can be pronounced with or without barred L and both pronounciations are regarded as correct. I read somewhere though that the one with barred L is sometimes thought to be hypercorrect or a ruthenism (which is an influence of east slavic languages).

There are also ther cases where barred L may (or may not) be silent, like 'padl' (he fell).

I cannot think of any other polish letters right now that may become silent.

Thanks once again for your help and, it's much appreciated.

No problem. :)

Vincent, you may find this website very useful.

ivo.pl/index.php?option=com_ivonaonline&Itemid=38

It has a speech synthesizer, which means that it pronounces words that are typed in the window called 'Wpisz tekst do odczytania'. Just tick Jacek if you want to hear a polish man or Ewa if you want to hear a polish woman and press 'Odczytaj!'.
saddened - | 64  
11 Oct 2007 /  #12
Dziewczyna girl or girl friend
Dziewczynka little girl Dziewczynko my dearest little girl
Diecko child
Chlopiec boy
Chlopczyk little boy
Kachanek boyfriend
Przyjaciel boyfriend
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
11 Oct 2007 /  #13
Vincent, you may find this website very useful.

Yes, thanks Arkady, that site will be very useful in the future.

I typed that short statement into it, and I think I can hear a very short sound before samochodzie. It is very faint, and is very hard to hear.That brings me to my next question.

I wonder if a foriegn person said "kobieta samochodzie" ( without the "w" )
to a Polish person, would he/she still be understood? or does that very faint "W" make a lot of difference. I do know that its there in the written word, and would never be left out.
Wyspianska  
11 Oct 2007 /  #14
dziewczyna i osiol :)

come on, everyone prefers donkeys!
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
11 Oct 2007 /  #15
Dziewczyna girl or girl friend
Dziewczynka little girl Dziewczynko my dearest little girl
Diecko child
Chlopiec boy
Chlopczyk little boy
Kachanek boyfriend
Przyjaciel boyfriend

Saddened,
every bit of info helps, many thanks.
saddened - | 64  
11 Oct 2007 /  #16
Teaching the barred L and the difference at the same time, to try to teach the w and not v the f at the same time its all a question of timing? Where these words happen in the sentence or what we say.

I am sorry i just noticed i misspelled
Kochanek boyfriend.
Arkady  
12 Oct 2007 /  #17
I wonder if a foriegn person said "kobieta samochodzie" ( without the "w" )
to a Polish person, would he/she still be understood?

Yes, I believe that such an expression would be still intelligible.
Nitka - | 13  
29 Oct 2007 /  #18
"kobieta w samochodzie" is the "w" silent?

'w' means 'in' so you need it to say 'woman in automobile' otherwise you'll say woman automobile although you still might be understood...

The only truely silent letter I have found so far is the (barred) L in jablko.

people have pronounced it both ways but if you want to pronounce it properly i'd use the 'barred L'...

There are also ther cases where barred L may (or may not) be silent, like 'padl' (he fell).

actually it's 'spadl' with the 'barred L' or 'upadl' (they both mean 'fell') which if pronounced properly is not silent...

there are no silent letters in polish, well to be correct, there is just one word which has a silent letter but it eludes me at the moment but otherwise that statement would be correct...
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
29 Oct 2007 /  #19
I wonder if a foriegn person said "kobieta samochodzie" ( without the "w" )
to a Polish person, would he/she still be understood?

In each language there is a degree of redundancy, so whether you pronounce the "w" as "v" or "f" is not critical in conveying the correct message. Polish inflection helps here too, so an experienced Polish speaker will have no problems with understanding what you are saying if you you the correct case for "samochod".

Also, think of some sounds in terms of whispering. When you whisper sentences, effectively they all contain ONLY voiceless consonants. Still whisper is understandable.
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
29 Oct 2007 /  #20
understanding what you are saying if you you the correct case for "samochod".

thanks for the advice. I asked one of my Polish friends last weekend about this, and he said normally, only young school children would pronounce the "W".
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
29 Oct 2007 /  #21
he said normally, only young school children would pronounce the "W".

True.
Think of it as "f" (or even "of") in "cup of tea" as it would be pronounced by an English native speaker in everyday speech.
OP Vincent 9 | 858   Moderator
29 Oct 2007 /  #22
that's more great advice..thanks for that, much appreciated.

'w' means 'in' so you need it to say 'woman in automobile' otherwise you'll say woman automobile although you still might be understood...

Nitka, thanks for your comments.

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