Another german attack on John Paul II.

In Die Welt this time, in anniversary of His death. Hey, Germans. You can insult us and our beliefs, but we will remember that and don`t expect to be treated like friendly people. Not by me. And there is strong feeling growing in Poland, guess which one? I am afraid, one day it will burst. In well known direction.

erm, the same beliefs. Yer both Christian Countries.

Antigerman - first change you name, and then try to understand that only ignorants put down or destroy what they don't comprehend, how long have we been camping in central Europe ????

What did we say???

Actually your pope was (is) very popular in Germany...(polish or not)..

Don`t tell me about comprehention, because comprehention and respect to others is what germans don`t have. I am sick of german "culture". You call mocking a higher "comprehention", this is what Germany is all about.

Bratwurst boy + Antigerman = :)

What I mean - Germans or anyone alse who goes on making primitive and unpleasant comments about us for eg. are narrow-minded, bigoted ignorants who do it because they have little understanding or comprahension of what we really are, they are low and for some reason insecure. But at the same token the polish has nothing good to say about others from the more eastern places so....

*sigh* here we go again

antigerman, it is not the best way to win a point by racism (this applies to germans who belittle poles - indeed anybody anywhere)

deal with the evidence and refrain from namecalling and below the belt hits (even if your opponet does so) this gives you an edge and way to hit home your point far more convincingly.

I would have to say that POPE JP2 was a legend!!! and has a fantastic reputation the world over! i wish we could have more liberal popes!

What do you mean ?

i wish we could have more liberal popes.

popes that dont think that women are incapable of saying mass for starters! i think they would be better suited as they have a maternal instinct that is required to be a shepard (not saying that men dont but just giving a reason why i think women should be allowed - also, why not? god or jesus never said they could not?) - that would be VERY liberal for the church - but would help in aiding its difficulties in getting new priests (i know poland still has a good recruitment there, good)

also, pope bene XVI recently declared that hell was in fact all about fire and brimstone (a conservative notion) - if hell exists, im sure it could be worse.

for eg. for centuries the church said that unbaptised babies never get into heaven. that they are in Limbo. it was the liberal PJPII said that limbo does not, in fact exist (which makes sense as god forgives all sins (inc orginal - which i dont belive exists but thats personal) and so the unbaptised child that dies before it even has a chance to be - gets into heavan now.

a progressive and modern church, that can interpret the meaning and spirt of christ.

IE it was held that genesis was FACT unquestionable. it was over the centuries that liberal thinking releagated this to a moral story and not to be taken as fact.

Pope John Paul II was fantastic also on inter-faith reconcilliation, and a role model for christians in there behavior of tolereance towards other religions

this is what i mean. do you get me now? im happy to answer any further questons

Quite liked the old boy, even though I'm a born again Atheist.

Sadly, as with most religion there is so much Misogyny in the belief system

I was a polite guy once. Germany was the first country on my list of countries to visit. Then I have met people from Germany, even here, online. They have showed me that they dont`t like me because I am a Pole, and they make fun of my beliefs. I don`t care about their "conprehension". It is impossible explain to germans our POV, because they don`t care. So, the only way of defence is to attack stupid germs in stupid way. This wil not teach them any respect, but it will show that we are not afraid. I have personal cotact with germans every day. After what I read in their papers (from many years) it worsen. They are subhuman to me.

as in religious?...there the same beliefs!


your only giving them reason then to continue.


no it shows you have no tolerance. showing them your not afraid is to meet any slurs with dignified response that are well timed, appropriate and accurate. sticks and stones will only make those you mention feel superior and justified in what they say about you.


which shows you look down on other humans beings and this comes out in the way you deal with people, ie your attitude. I know many germans and work with many too and have yet to meet any of these you mention. but thats not the point - the point is yo say you have. but the way your approoaching it, it will only make them feel, as i said, that they are justiifed in what they think of you

and are if you view them to be subhuman! (which is racist) and fighting racism with racism is ultimately futile.

I am lutheran(non-practicing) myself and so fed up with it's liberaliness and "everybody get's to heaven no matter what"-attitude with no need for repentance of sins. There is no virtues in scandinavian lutheranism anymore . I find Catholic and Orthodox chuches are much better.

So be it.


I have great place to take example from. Just across the border.

i dont hold that attitude.

im talking about homosexuality being demonised for eg. while not my choice, its not anyones place to peeve into that part of someones private life if they wish. I mean there are news reports over the years (not so distant) of catholic groups breaking up and riotting at gay prode parades!

the sexist, belittlement of women. why cant they priests and say mass if they wish to follow the love of christ? did god or jesus say they couldn't? nope, it was men.

those two are just for eg.

liberalisation is required in many areas of the catholic church. like the book of genesis. if that wasn't liberalised i cant imagine what!

and Pope john paul was very good at realising steps towards many of these


speaks for itself


again, a deflective arguement that fails to deal with the issue by plaing blame or justification for your actions on others, refusing to take responsibilty for your own actions

No, my friend. You were not here when they took my uncle to concentration camp, even though that he was part german as me. But I was ready to forget. After UE enlargement in 2004 I also was curious, what they gonna do? Maybe we can we live together? But I was wrong. Nowdays according to their media I am thief and polack. And yesterday they have attacked Polish Pope. I have drawn line here.

you were not here when the british took my fathers family and shot them for speaking irish.

its the same arguement. move onwards. move upwards.


how did they attack the polish pope. I want you to show a link. i do not accept that otherwise.
Pope JP2 was a legendary figure. did more for interfaith reconcilliation then any other pope AND he preactised tolereance

SO if you really loved him and respected him, show it by following your religious beliefs and the teachings of a better man than you or i.

You sould tell that to germs. We have to deal with german insults on daily basis, you don`t even know. And they don`t understand normal arguments. The only thing they understand is hard baseball bat.


True, but when one is surrounded by rats, must defend himself by any given choice.

not true.

Pope John Paul II,

Gandhi

Mother Teresa

Martin Luther King

All succeeded being surrounded by WORSE than what you 'surrounded' by. By not resorting to the level you are talking about.

They are, however, all dead

Four names vs. Germans. You are outnumbered. Germs wins. But I will not allow that.

they were just one name each againt bigger odds than you!

mother tersa (how many in india versus germany?)

Martin luther king (how many white americans vs germans")

gandhi (against an ENTIRE EMPIRE!)

Nelson mandela (another man against the odds!)

I could go on! these are just names that pop into my head and they stood up to far worse than you have to put up with and against MORE people than you have to deal with

so its just you that is keeping from reaching even a fraction of what they did.

just you.

You must be some kind of a idealistic activist. Open your eyes. I don`t wanna change the whole World. I just wanna show to stupid germs, who disrespect everything and everybody that if you play with fire you get burnt. I am part german myself, don`t tell me what tolerance is.

just my own little part, this is done by doing all we;ve said above


very open thank you. just because others stoop to low levels doesnt mean i should or have to. thanks.


gandhi, mandela, king all did this without the measure you propose on a scale larger than you are talking about and succeeded by simple means (hard to keep to but simple principles)

stick to your principles. Its not easy i know but eventually it wins.


well, you obviously were not showing any so, yea, i felt i had to. even by your own admission, your not showing any tolerance your just reacting (and indeed preempting according to an earlier post of yours) to them.

rise above it and it will become nothing

:)

"Es schlugen (sich) zwei Seelen in seiner Brust..."

No...real now...what did we say about your pope?

There is nothing you can say to convince me, because you are not one of them. They never felt sorry for what they did, and they are doing the same things today. But I can promise one thing. When I`ll hear apology for insults from all germ boys, I start to think like you. But this will never happen.

you mean the role models of mandela, king, john paul? they HAVE told you, they tell ALL people to rise above it, adversity...you've been told, you just choose not to listen.


and so there is hope is for you. but understand your actions merit apology too. (as you've already stated you've PREempted action too) So i'd simply suggest to start now, wipe the slate, be bigger than this, be that better person, give them no reason to put you down. and they will eventually relent.

they will. far worse bullies have fallen to less. its up to YOU to be strong

Latest news: Die Welt has removed from its website insults about Pope. They felt guilty? Now that`s something new.


Maybe there is hope for them as well. And you are too idealistic.

an admission they were wrong. can you say as much?


hope for everyone. (its not limited to a few)


more, optimistic. I tend not to react insult with insult, punch for punch, its stone age, non progressive and belongs in the past. its ideals that hold society together

ideals that made the UN possible, EU, gandhi, mandela, mr teresa, M King jr, etc etc etc. id rather aspire to be on that list than anyother so i try to live my life the best way possible

seems you dont like that.