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Indian? Gypsy? Turk?


katfish 1 | 5  
29 Sep 2007 /  #1
My Polish grandmother had 12 living children-half of whom were blonde/green or blue eyed and the other half were olive skinned with dark hair and eyes. My grandmother was olive skinned and often mistaken for a Native American (Indian) or an Italian. Her husband often accused her of infidelity due to the looks of the kids. I want to clear her once and for all.

Busia told my mother that her grandmother was attacked by an "Indian" (not the India kind-the Native American kind). This was in Poland in perhaps the early-1700's. I think she meant either a Turk or a Gypsy. They were peasant/farmers and the impression I get is that an invading army attacked the villages. So that's how some Poles are swarthy.

Or were there tribes of indigeous people like our Native Americans? Were there "Indians" in Poland?

Any help appreciated. Thanks.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
29 Sep 2007 /  #2
Most of Poles have dark hair. We're not any Scandinavians.
shewolf 5 | 1,077  
29 Sep 2007 /  #3
Or were there tribes of indigeous people like our Native Americans? Were there "Indians" in Poland?

There is definite Native American DNA in Poland in very small percentages. Scientists believe that it got there through the relatives of Native Americans. Some of the people who were originally from Siberia or Mongolia went to the Americas and became known as Native Americans. But others from the same tribes went into Europe and were not known as Native Americans.

In addition, Native Americans were stolen from the Americas in the 1500's or later and were taken to Europe as slaves and many escaped and hid throughout Europe. It's possible that they ended up in Poland that way but I've heard it's not likely. Their descendants are found mostly in England, Spain and Italy.
OP katfish 1 | 5  
29 Sep 2007 /  #4
Thank you, shewolf. I never could get a definition of what my grandmother meant-either she was not sure of the English translation or due to embarrassment. I will probably try getting my DNA traced.
Czarnobog - | 33  
28 Jan 2009 /  #5
I don't know where people get the impression that Polish people are blond and blue eyed. Some of us are, but many of us are also swarthy. We're Slavic, and as a Slavic people we've had contact with Roma (Gypsies), Jews, and Turks not to mention years of hard labour in the steppes under the scorching sun ;) We've also been invaded by Vikings and Swedes, so perhaps that's where some of our light features come from. Either way we have a wide range and both extremes (light and swarthy) that I would say are native to Poland, and Slavic people in general. Perhaps this is why historically in the West, we've only been able to pass as "marginally white" - so, yes, you Poles are "definitely Caucasian" (just like Greeks and Turks) but you're "off white." I know that I often get asked if I am from India, Greece, or the Middle East.

As for the Indian connection, it is more likely that you have Roma relatives than Native American Indian relatives.
jacob_89 - | 23  
28 Jan 2009 /  #6
Most of Poles have dark hair. We're not any Scandinavians.

I think it's dark blonde or brown mostly.

We're not any Scandinavians.

Unfortunately ;)
Chirag 1 | 8  
13 May 2009 /  #7
okiey..im a pure "indian" and let me tell you some facts about "indians"

1)Current indians are 100% different from Indian-americans
2)Real Indians are "Aryans"..they belong to the same class as germans...well why do indians look different from germans then? well, indians blood is of 90% aryans and 10% mongols..this applies for "olive skin indians"..those who look a little brownish...and the indians which are "black" have around 80% aryan blood, 10% mongol blood and 10% dravidian blood...this Dravidian blood gives them the black color

and American Indians or native indians do not exist anymore and they look like people of africa

and yes ..whenever a "brownish skinned indian" marries any other woman other than africans then their babies are naturally beautiful...i have always seen that :)

and ever wondered why chinese, indians and japanese generally have brownish skin? its because of the temperature here...(think why coal is black and ice is white)

So i dont think "indians" attacked poland..hahaha
plk123 8 | 4,150  
13 May 2009 /  #8
American Indians or native indians do not exist anymore

that is incorrect. there are still plenty pure blooded natives in america.

the word aryan comes from persian. the indians with a dot are definitely not the same as germans.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
13 May 2009 /  #9
Real Indians are "Aryans"..they belong to the same class as germans

Germanic, not Indian or anything close.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples - Read and learn

No mention of Indians, maybe you are thinking of Indo-Iranian

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race - Indo-European

Where is Bratty when you need him, I'd love to see what he has to say about this...ROFL!!!
plk123 8 | 4,150  
13 May 2009 /  #10
yup, you're in the hood, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryans
Guest  
19 May 2009 /  #11
. Scientists believe that it got there through the relatives of Native Americans

i think we are just native americans who where to lazy to go to america knowing my family i would belive that
baskinsrobin  
9 Jul 2009 /  #12
Well I am bit surprised in this forum, lot of people are against the asians. May I ask why?Are polish trying to prove that ever since they have joined EU, things have changed?

Well I dont think poland is going to reach the level of scandinavian countries or germany in another 30 years. So no point in comparing yourself with us. In our sight, asian countries have achieved much more than poland without any external help whereas we have been helping poland for a couple of years and I dont think anything has changed in poland and with polish people too.
Czarnobog - | 33  
18 Jul 2009 /  #13
asian countries have achieved much more than poland without any external help whereas we have been helping poland for a couple of years and I dont think anything has changed in poland and with polish people too.

So you're giving us a dose of antipolonism to cure us of our anti-Asian sentiments?

I'm not excusing the anti-Asian stuff I see here - in fact I find it appalling. But you have to consider that some Polish people are under the delusion that they are white and they are trying to prove themselves very hard by hating on everyone who isn't. Of course from the point of view of the West, as you have just demonstrated, they are "backward." I think hating on others for being "backward" makes them feel like they are in the civilized club (of Western imperialism).
southern 75 | 7,096  
18 Jul 2009 /  #14
But you have to consider that some Polish people are under the delusion that they are white

I wouldn't call this a delusion.
Czarnobog - | 33  
19 Jul 2009 /  #15
Exactly. That's what makes it a true delusion.

Biologically there is no such thing as a white race, yet you think you are a member.
Hitler went after the Poles considering them to be subhuman Slavs (i.e. not white or not white enough).
US has historically excluded Slavs from whiteness (also Jews, Gypsies, Italians and others) maintaining that whites = western/northern Europeans.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
19 Jul 2009 /  #16
maintaining that whites = western/northern Europeans.

They are not white. They are pink. We're white.
Blue - | 5  
19 Jul 2009 /  #17
I'm wondering if it's hard to live with such a limited understanding of the world which surrounds you?
DK1 1 | 12  
19 Jul 2009 /  #18
The average Pole has brown hair and blue, green, grey or hazel eyes. Extreme blonds and really dark people are both in the minority.

Generally speaking we're a lot fairer than Southern Europeans, but less fair than Scandinavians.

I find it ridiculous that some people here try to portray Poles as some sort of non-European population living on the Southern Baltic shore. Clearly you need to cure yourselves of some very serious complexes.

I don't have any non-Polish ancestry, and no one's dark haired and dark eyed in my family. That's the way things are. If they were different, I'd see that as an interesting turn of events and maybe investigate things via the right channels. What I wouldn't do is talk nonsense on a forum about Poles being mistaken for Middle Easterners or Greeks.
wheelbarrow  
20 Jul 2009 /  #19
why is everyone trying to be white? magibon looks white and polish to me. why do you think she is asian?
wies  
8 Aug 2009 /  #20
in answer too the question of mixed genes it is true that every time poland was invaded by turks tartars mongols etc they used to leave a lot of pregnant polish girls rather than kill these children like some scandinavians would the polish people absorbed them into the gene pool hence you find all these different races in our genetic makeup we were centuries ahead of the world in diversity.yours.wieslaw.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595  
8 Aug 2009 /  #21
Most of Poles have dark hair. We're not any Scandinavians.

Not all Scandinavians have light blonde hair. For example myself. When I was a child I had very light blonde hair, but that changed into very dark blonde.
franky  
19 Sep 2009 /  #22
Read this book:What Strange Mystery Unites the Turkish Nations, India, Catholicism, and Mexico?: A Concise But Detailed History of Things Divine and Earthly

by Gene D Matlock, writer of this book
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
19 Sep 2009 /  #23
Why the hell you guyz wanna be more white :( ? ... I think we are white enough already .. a little color always looks so good :)
Jack 1234  
19 Oct 2009 /  #24
Indian People are black skin people that evolve from black Sumerian who did not undergone evolution on their skin complexion especially the Dravidians. Indian People are not attractive and they try to prove themselves white especially the Tamils and their Southern Indian brothers.

The black Sumerian migrated from Africa and retained their black complexion and proceed the migration along the coastline to India.
Angel123  
20 Oct 2009 /  #25
Hi,

im a gypsy myself and roman gypsy i am half my mother is not while my father is.
Sadly they were mistaken, we were treated bad and cruel, they said we stole
and abused when we were the ones being abused.
Aussie Sheila - | 13  
2 Nov 2009 /  #26
Is there racism against darker poles in Poland like in Spain/Portugal and Italy where snow white skin is idolised and red hair and blonde hairs are considered ultimate beauty while dark skined spaniards, porchops and wogs are considered inferior?
southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Nov 2009 /  #27
and wogs are considered inferior?

?What do you mean by wogs?
Aussie Sheila - | 13  
2 Nov 2009 /  #28
urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=***
suildur  
30 Nov 2009 /  #29
Hello all...

First of all, I must admit that what I will tell from here on would sound weird, but anything which is out/contraversery of usual and repeated behaviours/information sounds weird for the first moment. But, please be patient until the end, if you are open-minded.

The origins of Summerians, Etruscans, Troians, Native Americans, Indians and Turks seem the same, and probably pro-Turkic. Also, Japanesee, Koreans, Finnish and Mongols seem relative with that origin, too. Hattitis and all Anatolian cultures have some boundaries with that origin, too, but not ethnically; unlike those all are bounded to Greek origins.

This similarity/origin is based on three topics: 1. Ancient symbols, 2. Language studies, 3. Gene studies

(I must declare that, I am writing this post with the info on my mind which I have read on book or on the net before. I donot have all the resource for the things I will describe here. However, I will post some links. Also, I donot insist that things I say are all scientific. Because, science is something that has its own rules, which contains observation, experiment, proof or classifications like law or theory and some disciplines which need to build a law or theory. But, when it comes to social sciences, sometimes science itself is not scientific, too; for example, people "scientifically" believed that ancient Greeks were the cultural orgins of the modern world, but this was over ruled by the expoleration of Sumerians. However, I will not argue about the disorientation of science in means of politics!)

Well, I know, all European people are really sensitive about swastika. In fact, swastika is not the symbol of Nazis. It is maybe the oldest symbol in the world history. It can be seen anywhere, even in Japanesee flag! Swastika means the infinity, the sun, the universe, the God, the good thing creating the universe. I must tell that Nazis took that symbol because they knew that was the symbol of the people who emerged from the disaster in the Mu continent (the lost continent other than Atlantis) and those were "pure race". That was their thinking.

This symbol comes from the east to the west in the history as time goes by. So, we know it is an eastern symbol. There are lots of studies, books and articles about that symbol, but, I cannot tell that those are scientific or all considerable for someone looking something certain. But, you may read as well, at your own risk :)

Here is a study about the symbols on the Turkish flag (crescent and star) and Sumerian culture:

storm.ca/~cm-tntr/crescent_starb.html

(please add "world wide web" initials to the beginning of the link if the link does not work)

The language studies are more spectacular. In modern science, Japanese, Korean, Turkish, Mongolese languages are not considered to be a language family. In the past, those were classiffied as Altaic languages. I "believe" this is a disorientation! Because, those languages have very different specifications regarding to neighbouring populations.

Anyway... There are more than 1000 Turkish words in ancient Sumerian language. Also, the Sumerian religion and the Gilgamesh Legend have lots of similarities with ancient Turkish religion and myths. (I must also declare that some historians emphasize the similarities between the Sumerian religion and Judaism, Christianity and Islam.) Akkadians are the posterior culture after Sumerians, you can find a language study between Turkish and Akkadian:

aton.ttu.edu/pdf/akkad-turk-short-E11.pdf

Also, here is a conversation over Akkadian, Sumerian and Trukish languages:

tech.groups.yahoo/group/Polat_Kaya/message/252

As so many people can guess, the Bering Strait establishes a bridge between Asia and North america when the sea surface is frozen. It is said that, some Asian tribes must have been imigrated to North America. Well, some people say those tribes were Turks. Why? Again, language:

mediamonitors.net/polatkaya1.html

Also, there are some new non-Turkish researchers who study on the roots of Turks and Native Americans. You can look out for their books on the Amazon.

On the other hand, Turks were shamans just like Native Americans before they were budhist, taoist and christian. (Gee, you must be surprised :) But, yes, Turks were christian too when they were in central Asia.) We still have lots of traditions which date back to shamanism. Even, the "alevi" or "Bektashi" ways of Islam -which are a part of Turkish culture- contain more shamanic contents.

But, I do not know if there is gene study about the relation of Turks and Native Americans. However, there is the Mormon topic, and you can find an article here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

And the Etruscan topic... Etruscans are the root of Romans, and once, they were thought to be European. However, the latest gene studies shows us they are mostly Turkic oriented. You can find one here:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181945/

Anyway... First of all, please do not frighten. Maybe, Turks are not barbarians as they are always told so in European subconscious.

The earliest Turkish language is seen on Orkhun Monuments and Orhono-Yenisei inscriptions which date back to 6. - 7. centuries A.D. You can see the alphabet here:

tug.org/texmf-dist/doc/fonts/orkhun/rakhimov.pdf

The written language seems complete, so that means about a 3000 years for a language to establish rules of aiphabet, grammer, writing and so on... That means Turks have a really old culture than most of the people think.

So?

So... All you see may not be the thing there.

Have you ever heard of white pyramids? There are over 300 pyramids in China, one of them is taller than 300 metres. And all pyramids are said to be older than Egyptian pyramids.

Ok... Have you ever heard of underwater pyramids in Japanese sea? Those pyramids are dated back 12000 years ago. 12000 years!

Well, I am an educated engineer who believes in positive, modern sciences. But, I also have enough ability to think that those Chinese people had not build the only human constructed structure which can be seen from the space because it last thousands of miles, "the Great Wall", against some Asian nomads.

I believe, history, is disorientated for political purposes.

I hope I had shown you a new way in history, maybe in your lives.

If you want to contribute please mail me on suildur@gmail and never forget that in fact we are all brothers and sisters as we are all human.
iksnil - | 1  
30 Nov 2009 /  #30
Hello;As I wondered about our Polish family having dark complexions,we ran our Dna and found out that our ancestors of 10,000 years ago originated in Persia.These haplotype groups are still in Persia today. DNA is the way to go for answers.

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