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PAT testing electrical equipment in Poland



Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
11 Sep 2017  #1

Does it happen. Is PAT testing happening in Poland to meet safety legislation
Do employers consider the requirements?

Is there scope to undertake this work
..Qualified people?


dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
11 Sep 2017  #2

They still fit 240v electrical sockets next to the bathroom sink, enough said.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
11 Sep 2017  #3

Are you saying electrical work is not to the best of standards?
jon357 70 | 12,784    
11 Sep 2017  #4

Plug sockets in bathrooms, sockets not properly fixed to the wall. A few issues.
Roger5 2 | 1,505    
11 Sep 2017  #5

Our bathroom sockets are high on the wall and covered with a spring loaded mechanism. I feel safe enough, although I might feel differently if we had young kids.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
11 Sep 2017  #6

Earth pins jumpered to neutral, very common.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
11 Sep 2017  #7

Thanks for the replies so far.

Do you think that polish electricians should be educated and monitored by exams or a governing body in electrical safety. Here in the UK we have standards from the electricity at work act, to the 17th edition wiring regs.

I have just purchased a house in Poland and was puzzled by the electrical installation, it seemed to be dangerous using neutral as earth. I was told in was the norm.

When I questioned this, the electrician said it saves money on wiring.
As a senior electrical engineer and a lecturer on the subject I found it hard to believe that it saves on wiring costs.
Secondly why are hand tools or electrical items not routinely tested that are used by persons. Examples of this are electric drIlls, kettles etc in hotel rooms, equipment used by children or the elderly.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
11 Sep 2017  #8

Do you think that polish electricians should be educated and monitored by exams

They are already - there's various certifications for working with different things (e.g. three-phase, high-voltage etc) and these are as far as I know accepted outside Poland. A friend works in Germany on the basis of the certification (uprawnienie) he did in Poland.
Wulkan - | 3,233    
12 Sep 2017  #9

They still fit 240v electrical sockets next to the bathroom sink, enough said.

Yes, very useful for your shaver.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #10

Until one day your five year old fills the sink to wash his hands then knocks the shaver you left on the side of the sink into the water, or the classic wife dries her hair over a sink still full of water, accidently drops the drier and without thinking tries to rescue it.

Luckily new installs by qualified polish electricians (Hard to find in Poland) are up to spec with all the safety features you would expect.

Sadly there are very many poles who pose as expert electricians and do things the old way and make things worse.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
12 Sep 2017  #11

Until one day your five year old fills the sink to wash his hands then knocks the shaver you left on the side of the sink into the water

Agreed. It's dangerous. They aren't even special shaver sockets, just normal ones. Plus tiny bathrooms with those fancy showers with the lights in and a washing machine running next to it on a wet floor. All installed by the occupant's cousin who isn't a trained electrician.

And the plug sockets, bathroom or not, come off the walls, leaving bare wires exposed.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #12

washing machine running next to it on a wet floor.

Nightmare isnt it some of those bathroom sockets like mine don't have any earth connected, I fittend the washing machine in the kitchen where i installed a new circuit, you would be amazed at the amount of stick I get from Polish visitors telling me that washing machines should always be in the bathroom.

a while back they used to sell em with a clip to connect the earth to a cold water pipe, you can still find em in some old houses.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
12 Sep 2017  #13

My bathroom sockets don't even have shutters on the live or neutral. It is feasible that my small children could poke something conductor into the live opening of the socket whilst touching the pedestal tap and bingo....electric shock which could be fatal due to shock path across the chest. Making matters worse the current flow would be high as I would imagine the bathroom floor could be nice and wet.

Plugging shavers into straight 240v sockets in bathrooms is just ludicrous and an accident waiting to happen with potential dire consequences.

Why are these sockets not fed by a Low Voltage double wound isolating transformers which is supplied via an appropriate FCU ( fused connection unit ) that is fused at 3amps.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
12 Sep 2017  #14

I used to rent a flat, rather a posh one near ul. Belwederska, one built in the early 90s. It had a small second bathroom where the washing machine was. Aside from the washing machine socket, there was another one. It never worked. One day, we checked it to see if there was a wire loose.

Imagine our surprise when we found out that there was nothing behind the socket, no wires, no hole for cables, no nothing. It was a decorative socket.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #15

I brought my own rcd sockets and adaptors from the uk, at least the wife is safe while mowing the lawn.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
12 Sep 2017  #16

I brought my own rcd sockets and adaptors from the uk

Same here.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
12 Sep 2017  #17

Jeez.
Maybe I should just rewire the house to UK 17th Edition Wiring Regulations Standards. At least then it would be safe.
I cannot blame the Polish electricians for there work if they have no standards to follow that are universal to all.
At least I got copper wiring, not aluminium.
Wulkan - | 3,233    
12 Sep 2017  #18

one day your five year old fills the sink then knocks the shaver you left on side of sink into water, wife dries her hair over a sink still full of water, drops the drier and tries to rescue it.

Both scenarios are impossible in my bathroom.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
12 Sep 2017  #19

Your bathroom is in England. Mine are in Poland and there are three standard electrical sockets above each washbasin.
Wulkan - | 3,233    
12 Sep 2017  #20

Your bathroom is in England. Mine are

I have more than one bathroom too.

three standard electrical sockets above each washbasin.

You don't fill the basin with water if you use any electric equipment on it. Considering that you don't have two dumb taps that you had in the UK it shouldn't be too hard.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #21

Both scenarios are impossible in my bathroom.

Cos in the UK it is not allowed

240v sockets and light swithches in proximity to water in bathrooms must be at least 3m away from from boundary zone 1.
Cardno85 31 | 976    
12 Sep 2017  #22

It was a decorative socket.

Don't know why, but this made me properly laugh out loud. Just picturing the sales pitch, "And of course we have these decorative sockets, perfect for when you want to plug something in but not use it".
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #23

want to plug something in but not use it".

Once you plug something in in poland its best you never pull it out cos the socket comes away from the wall most of the time.

I screw the sockets and cups into the wall ,and never rely on the crappy gripper system that they use, and in anycase the fittings are cheap plastic with thin tinny conductors that should be banned.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
12 Sep 2017  #24

John

I had to smile with your answer ..No water in the wash basin whilst using electrical equipment.
Kids unfortunately do not have common sense no matter how much you educate them. Hence the words kids.
Often kids are curious about seeing consequence s.

As I have a house in the UK and Poland I was curious as to why there was a real difference in electrical wiring and location of sockets.

I think as a senior electrical engineer, standard polish electrical sockets are dangerous in a bathroom location. I may be wrong though.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,174    
12 Sep 2017  #25

sockets are dangerous in a bathroom location. I may be wrong though.

Hardly.

Miss Polonia died a tragic death. The dryer came into the tub when she was taking a bath

rmf.fm/magazyn/news,10334,miss-polonia-zginela-tragiczna-smiercia-suszarka-wpadla-do-wanny-gdy-brala-kapiel.html

The man used the iPhone in the tub. The effects are really tragic

planeta.fm/Newsy/O-tym-sie-mowi/Mezczyzna-uzywal-iPhonea-w-wannie-Skutki-sa-naprawde-tragiczne

There was a tragedy in one of the BiaƂystok settlements. The baby was grabbing the cables that protruded from the wall and was electrocuted

fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polska/bialystok/bialystok-raczkujace-dziecko-porazil-prad-chlopczyk-nie-zyje/8lehd70

The articles are from this year there are loads of this type of accident, no need for it.
spiritus 67 | 617    
12 Sep 2017  #26

I believe that PAT testing is not legally required here in the UK.

I just had this discussion this morning with a company who rang to inform me that our company has a legal obligation to ensure electrical equipment is safe (which is true) but the truth is it is usually insurance policies that insist on PAT testing and not UK law.

What actually happens is loads of companies have realised they can blag their way around this and ring businesses up trying to scare the crap out of them just to get some money
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
12 Sep 2017  #27

Hi spiritus.

I totally agree with you, PAT testing is not a legal requirement in the UK.
Unfortunately under the HSAWA, there is the Electricity at Work act and the PUWER regs which state that electrical equipment must be maintained to show that it is safe to use.

PAT testing meets both these requirements as it shows that a company is legally ensuring the safety of its employee's.
If in doubt, ask the HSAWA, they have a clear code of practise for electrical safety. So PAT testing is not law, but electrical safety policy is, unfortunately mains powered equipment comes under Electricity at work act and the PUWER regs.
OP Ukelectrical 1 | 11    
12 Sep 2017  #28

Also bear in mind Spiritus, electrical testing such as Pat testing needn't cost a fortune. Forget the stupid prices, nominate and in house tester, buy a test machine for a few hundred quid and train them to be competent in inspection and testing.

It saves a lot of hassle in court.
jon357 70 | 12,784    
12 Sep 2017  #29

The articles are from this year there are loads of this type of accident, no need for it.

Also a risk from electrical fires, especially in areas with wooden housing and faulty wiring.
Wulkan - | 3,233    
13 Sep 2017  #30

Kids unfortunately do not have common sense

Indeed, maybe you should lock your knifes in the kitchen so you lacking common sense kids won't stab each other or replace the glass in windows with a mesh so they don't smash it and fall out. Your answer really made me giggle.




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