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What are the job opportunities in Poland for a young Italian with a law degree?


JollyRomek 7 | 481
25 Jun 2015  #31
there are no longer issues with degree recognition

Sure. Why don't you try to practice law in Poland with an Italian law education.........
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
25 Jun 2015  #32
Or the reverse:-)
DominicB - | 2,678
25 Jun 2015  #33
Even the worst possible job he can get in Italy will be much more rewarding and easier to get than what he can count on in Poland.

Even no job in Italy would be better than what he can count on in Poland, if he uses that time to prepare for and pursue a more useful degree that can enhance his law degree.

Giving up your home-court advantage and support network of family and friends is a very foolish move indeed if its done for a girl and a lousy, dead end job in a backward country that pays peanuts and provides no hope for advancement. Better to sleep in Mom's basement, work part-time as a night receptionist in a hotel, and study like it's going out of style.

A law degree from any country can be extremely useful anywhere if it is paired with a serious degree of the type I mentioned: financial engineering, financial mathematics, econometrics, actuarial sciences, and petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering. And the earnings would be at least ten times as much as in some lousy, windowless, soul grinding SSC hellhole in Poland, where it would be impossible to save up any money for modest short-term goals, never mind retirement.
OP Chimismi 1 | 4
25 Jun 2015  #34
If I would have to take one of the listed degrees, that would mean spend 5 years more studying, with no income. And at 30 years old I will have two degrees, but no practical experience in any job and empty curriculum: you think that would be the right move?
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
25 Jun 2015  #35
In general, Europeans spend much longer in school than is the preferred custom here in the States. The result however, is that European doctors, lawyers, professors, managers etc. tend on the whole to be far better trained, multi-lingual and broadly knowledgable than Americans across the board.

My "American-style" advice would be to remain in Italy, acquire the necessary training and start earning money. Afterwards, a brief stint in a neighboring EU country certainly couldn't hurt your cv any:-)
angry pole
26 Jun 2015  #36
Where do you get this from?

Please, please........educate yourself before you answer.

You quote salaries below the minimum wage in Poland. Please, don't bother me if you don't have a clue.

@JollyRoller - you must be living in some different Poland. A typical call center salary even in Warsaw is around 2500 PLN brutto. I'll leave it to you to calculate netto and turn into EUR.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
26 Jun 2015  #37
Polish salaries have definitely improved since the end of the '90s, beginning of the Millenium! In fact, cities like Krakow started to be called in Poland "Cud nad Wisłą" (Miracle on the Vistula). In Greepoint, Bklyn., younger Poles have been streaming back to Poland with the improvement of the economy there. It is true that nowadays, things have changed back a bit, and yet let's dispel the myth of present-day Poland being some Communist backwater, forever behind the plow (as well as the times).

Warszawa too has burgeoned into among other things an IT mega-center and many start ups in Poland have even reached the major exchanges.

On another note, it's unfair to compare Poland to Germany, the US or even Russia, if mostly by virtue of its size.
DominicB - | 2,678
26 Jun 2015  #38
that would mean spend 5 years more studying, with no income. And at 30 years old I will have two degrees, but no practical experience in any job and empty curriculum: you think that would be the right move?

Absolutely. You would be in a far better place than you would be with just a law degree, and, in spite of the late start, your lifetime earnings and savings potential would be several times higher, as well. You will make up the 5 years lost wages in the first year out of school. Students in the fields I mentioned are usually employed even before they finish their studies. They are very highly in demand, and paid accordingly.

I myself did something similar. I got a Ph.D. in research biology, and faced working in academia for the rest of my life, which was not too appealing to me. At age 28, I went back to medical school, and with a double degree, I was able to retire young, thanks to several biomedical patents.

Now I'm back in the US and trying to make another one of my patents generate a profit, which is fun because I don't have to worry about money to survive. Life is really a lot of fun when you have enough money.

The one thing that you have to realize about high-tech and engineering degrees is that they give you incredible freedom to shape your career to your taste. Without having to scratch my head, I can easily list a hundred fun, exiting, profitable and satisfying things that a lawyer with a math-intensive degree can do, and none of them involve boring drudge work behind a desk in a windowless basement of some soulless corporation, despite the stereotypes you may have in your mind. If you can't easily come up with a similar list, the failure is on your part because of your lack of familiarity with what engineers and mathematicians can actually do. The possibilities are countless, especially if you also have a law degree.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
26 Jun 2015  #39
I agree to a great extent. As to whether life is "really a lot of fun when you have enough money", I'd say that's more of an obvious statement than anything else. Certainly, cleverness has its own tangible rewards. The problem comes that many here in the US tend to penalize those in the medical, legal or other professions who desire to work honestly for their keep rather than simply pack it all in at thirty-five and spend the rest of their lives in a fool's paradise:-)
DominicB - | 2,678
26 Jun 2015  #40
False dichotomies all around here. I certainly earn my keep honestly, and while early retirement may be paradise, I am enjoying it to the fullest by producing at a level that I could never do before. I'm not wasting my time on the golf course, if that's what you think.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
26 Jun 2015  #41
Oh, no! I wasn't implying anything of the sort.

Which "false dichotomies" would you be referring to, DominicB?
DominicB - | 2,678
26 Jun 2015  #42
I probably did read more into your post than you intended, but I did get the impression that you were implying that those who retire early are either dishonest or deluded fools. Also, as far as materialism goes, having lived long enough in both countries, I have to say that Poles are much more mercenary and obsessed about money than Americans are, which is about what you would expect from Maslow's pyramid. Americans may be more obsessed about "success", but they are much less likely to define success in terms of money or material possessions than Poles are, stereotypes notwithstanding.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
26 Jun 2015  #43
Poles also belong to a historically black market economy!! Bribery is such a way of life throughout much of the former-Communist countries (not to mention to present-day "Old" Silk Road), most probably wouldn't know how to either hire or look for work without smoothing the way:-)

I'm not saying it's necessarily their fault; they merely don't know better!
JollyRomek 7 | 481
26 Jun 2015  #44
A typical call center salary even in Warsaw is around 2500 PLN brutto.

And we are back to the point where I am saying "educate yourself before you answer" . SSC - Shared Service Center can hardly be called a "Call Center".

Even no job in Italy would be better than what he can count on in Poland, if he uses that time to prepare for and pursue a more useful degree that can enhance his law degree.

That has to be the dumbest thing you have written here in a long time. How is he going to support himself without a job?
DominicB - | 2,678
26 Jun 2015  #45
How is he going to support himself without a job?

That can be done. It doesn't take much imagination to come up with several ways that are probably available to the OP. And if not, a modestly paying part-time job with a lot of down-time that can be used to study can help fill the gap, as I suggested above. Something like security guard or hotel night clerk.

In any case, working in a lousy SSC in Poland is one of the worst options available to the OP, and is tantamount to career suicide.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
26 Jun 2015  #46
lousy SSC

You once again go back to that statement, yet you have not been able to explain what a lousy SSC actually is.
DominicB - | 2,678
26 Jun 2015  #47
I will no longer respond to your trolling.
XxxYyy - | 7
26 Jun 2015  #48
Hello Chismini,

Don't let them make you believe that your education is worthless and you are in the most hopeless situation ever, after all you are a law graduated who speaks English and Italian and is European citizen! Use it! If I were you, I would complete legal education in italy and try to use that 2 years (it's not so long, still shorter then 5 years of another studies and still shorter then it takes you in Poland) to specialize in something that can be useful in Poland, European Commerce law, migration law etc sound promising. Additionally you should improve your Polish. That education will let you work whereever you wish:) Good luck!
jon357 63 | 14,124
26 Jun 2015  #49
Don't let them make you believe that your education is worthless and you are in the most hopeless situation ever, after all you are a law graduated who speaks English and Italian and is European citizen! Use it! If I were you, I would complete legal education in italy and try to use that 2 years

This is very sound advice, and maybe the best way forward for the OP.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
27 Jun 2015  #50
I will no longer respond to your trolling.

My question about what you believe a "lousy SSC" is can only be regarded as "trolling" if you do not know what SSC is and stands for.

Most multinationals either have or are in the process of setting up SSC's. SSC - Shared Service Center just means that they have centralized some of their functions. In most cases, companies centralize their finance (mostly A/R, A/P and G/L), customer services and sales. In some cases they even centralize their legal department.

The only difference between a local office and a shared service center is that the employee works in a central office where instead of just one entity, most European entities of that company are being handled from.

Let's take company ABC as an example. The OP could work for company ABC Italy in their legal department in Rome, handling all legal matters of company ABC Italy in Italy. But, company ABC has decided to centralize and opened a shared service center in Warsaw. Now the OP could work for company ABC Poland in Warsaw working for their Italian entity company ABC Italy and still handling all legal matters of company ABC Italy but from Poland. The only difference is that the OP is doing that sitting next to his colleague who handles all legal matters for company ABC France or company ABC Germany.

There is nothing "lousy" about it.

Dominic, it is ok not to know what a Shared Service Center is and what people do in these Shared Service Centers. But if you do not know, then please do not advice anyone not to work there.
Totti
27 Jun 2015  #51
To OP: As much as I would like to disagree with DominicB (his usual mantra is 'maximising income'), he is 100% right on this one, because it makes absolutely no sense for someone in your shoes to try to start your career in Poland. And you don't need to run off pursing a science based degree right away if numbers are not your cappuccino - but you need to be a bit realistic.

To JollyRomek, I will say this again - stop trolling, dude.
DominicB - | 2,678
28 Jun 2015  #52
DominicB (his usual mantra is 'maximising income')

His usual mantra is to maximize savings potential in absolute dollars, not income, as I explained above. As for non-science degrees, I always recommend highly in-demand, highly paying fields like financial engineering, financial mathematics, econometrics and actuarial science.

The only difference between a local office and a shared service center is that the employee works in a central office where instead of just one entity, most European entities of that company are being handled from.

No. They retain their departments in their home countries, at least the higher level positions, especially specialists, management and admisitration, and transfer the low-level grunt work to cheaper countries like Poland where they can pay much less.

This is lousy for several reasons:

Most importantly, workers in SSCs are cut off from the core of the corporate structure, which makes advancement in the corporate ladder very difficult. Upper level management and administrative positions are filled by people who work in the home country, not in the SSCs. It's worse than being stuck in some windowless basement in the home country, where there is at least some chance that someone upstairs might notice them when they go outside for a smoke.

Interesting, rewarding projects generally stay in the home country, and SSC workers are generally stuck with the mundane grunt workers that workers in the home country don't want to do. This also limits advancement, as doing grunt-work does little to enhance ones CV.

Practically all hiring, firing and retention decisions in an SSC are made on the basis of keeping wages as low as possible. Job security sucks, and workers get stuck in low paid positions without the means to escape to greener pastures.

There are practically zero chances for continuing education or other forms of self-improvement, both because of the language barrier and cost. SSCs are extremely reluctant to spend money to improve and retain staff because replacements are so easy to find, especially from countries like India and Pakistan that see any job in Poland as a back door to the richer countries of the EU.

Work conditions generally suck, wages are much lower, quality of life is lower, relative cost of living is higher, job security is poorer, and savings potential is drastically lower.

Sorry, but given the choice between relocating to Poland to work in a lousy SSC for peanuts, it would be much better to stay at home and beef up one's salable qualifications, or to do so at a school elsewhere that offers programs that are much more salable than anything you can get in Poland.

Bottom line, as I've said many times before, if you come to the conclusion that working or studying in Poland is your best or only option, you have failed miserably at exploring all the better opportunities available to you, either for employment or further education. There are precious few exceptions, and this is not one of them. There's a reason why so many Poles seek employment in the West.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
28 Jun 2015  #53
There's a reason why so many Poles seek employment in the West.

You "fail miserably" Dominic. Your explanations continue to show that you do not have the slightest idea about the job market in Poland nor do you know anything about SSCs.

To JollyRomek, I will say this again - stop trolling, dude.

Totti, perhaps you could try to convince with arguments? "stop trolling" without any substantial arguments and facts is not going to cut it.
Wulkan - | 3,251
28 Jun 2015  #54
Very detailed review with valuable information. Good job Dominic.
weeg
29 Jun 2015  #55
A law degree from any country can be extremely useful anywhere if it is paired with a serious degree of the type I mentioned: financial engineering, financial mathematics, econometrics, actuarial sciences, and petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering

Thats simplistic and easy advice to give if you don't have to make the sacrifice to act on it.

I work in a financial company and there are several lawyers employed, none of whom 'practice' law nor do they have or need any additional mathematical training.Lawyers have quite a few options when it comes to career choice because its useful to have them around.
Wroclaw Boy
29 Jun 2015  #56
Whats an SSC in Poland?
eh?
29 Jun 2015  #57
SCC shared service centre
Wroclaw Boy
29 Jun 2015  #58
shared service centre

what does that mean?
JollyRomek 7 | 481
29 Jun 2015  #59
Most importantly, workers in SSCs are cut off from the core of the corporate structure, which makes advancement in the corporate ladder very difficult. Upper level management and administrative positions are filled by people who work in the home country, not in the SSCs.

That is not true. It is actually the opposite. Working in a Shared Service Center gives you a lot more exposure to the corporate structure than a local office ever could. Companies centralize to globalize processes, share best practices, find more cost effective and efficient ways of working. Usually it is the local offices who are left with very little if at all influence on the new "ways of working". The local offices merely serve as a representation in the country but have very little influence.

Career progression within the company is a lot easier in a shared service center than a local office. If you compare a local office which may employ 10 - 30 people with a Shared Service Center which employs 500 people, it is not too difficult to understand which of the two offers more room for growth. There is absolutely no reason why a young graduate could not move into a team leader position after 2 years. Next step would be operations manager or a senior role in project management. Something a small local office certainly would not be able to offer.

Interesting, rewarding projects generally stay in the home country, and SSC workers are generally stuck with the mundane grunt workers that workers in the home country don't want to do.

Once a company has centralized, projects do not happen on local level anymore. There would be no need to centralize if projects are being done by the local organizations, preventing other entities to get the benefit of that project too.

I have done several transitions for Shared Service Centers across Europe. It is most certainly not the local organization that retains any of the rewarding projects.

There are practically zero chances for continuing education or other forms of self-improvement

On the contrary. Larger Shared Service Centers usually have their own training department. Either incorporated into HR or acting as a separate department solely focusing on the development of their staff. ACCA and CIMA are just two partners for a lot of the larger Shared Service Centers in Poland when it comes to external trainings.

because of the language barrier

The trainings are usually conducted in English so the language barrier does not come into play.

because replacements are so easy to find, especially from countries like India and Pakistan

Interesting. So how would an Indian or Pakistani perform European language dependent tasks? Unless they have studied the required language, they will hardly be able to replace someone "easily" in a European Shared Service Center.

quality of life is lower

That depends on how you define quality of life for yourself. A lot of the young people that work in SSC's actually seem to enjoy themselves quite a lot. In general they do enjoy a fairly active social life, make new friends, travel together on the weekends etc. etc. etc. But again, it depends on what you define as quality of life for yourself. There are no standards for this.

what does that mean?

Usually it's an entity of multinational companies that centralize some of their processes. In short, companies can either have local office spread across Europe that, for example, handle their accounting function. Or companies centralize and handle these functions for all European entities from one place. So basically company ABC UK, ABC Germany and ABC France do not look after their accounting from their local office but it is handled in the company's shared service center centrally, in Poland for example.
lawenquiry
29 Jun 2015  #60
Hello.. I wanted to know what job opportunities available for fresh Law graduate from Polish University and native Polish speaker in cities like Szczecin and Poznan... is there job demand for Law graduate in Legal field ? is it easier to find job for Law graduate or its hard to begin career in legal sector.. Thank you.


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