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What is deducted from a salary in Poland apart from Income tax?


jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Jul 2015  #61
DominicB, the OP is from a country where people do not earn $1000US never mind save it, so coming to Poland on that salary is a positive move.
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #62
so coming to Poland on that salary is a positive move.

No. It $ucks big time as long as there are plenty of much, much better opportunities elsewhere. And there are. I advise the OP to explore these opportunities rather than waste his time coming to Poland.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Jul 2015  #63
much, much better opportunities elsewhere

Dominic, do pay attention to the thread, there's a good boy.

The gentleman isn't looking for a job, he is being transferred to Poland by his employer. Of course you're free to suggest he quits his company for a 'much, much better opportunity' however he can doubtless make his own mind up as to whether or not he wishes to resign.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
14 Jul 2015  #64
you MIGHT be able to save $1000 USD a month,

How do you save 1000 USD per month with a net salary of 6300 PLN for two people in Warsaw?
InPolska 11 | 1,823    
14 Jul 2015  #65
probably Dominic means 'ZL".

Yet, I know people who spend very little and put away most of what they make ;)
jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Jul 2015  #66
Some people do! Pretty difficult though and I've never been able to do that sort of thing. One would need to be parsimonious in the extreme - and believe me, some people including expats in Poland are like that, serial tea bag reusers and never buy a round of drinks or willingly order a cab if they can share one to the annoyance of others. Half that amount is a more reasonable figure and that would still involve being more careful than I would personally like to.

I suppose it depends on what you're used to and whether you go out to eat, buy wine or use taxis.
InPolska 11 | 1,823    
14 Jul 2015  #67
"tea bag reusers"! I've seen one in New York. She kept a few completely dried out tea bags in a saucer on the sink counter and offered such tea to guests (the very few times I went to her place, I asked for coffee ;)).

Of course, one must be careful in order not to get in the red but there is a minimum ;).

I normally save 1,800/2,500 per month but I don't count grosz not only for myself but also for others (when I say how much I pay my cleaning lady, people look at me with very big eyes ;)).

Sorry, life is short and spending money is a pleasure of life. I know that some people would recommend Church going ;) but I prefer to spend my free time at shopping malls ;)
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #68
How do you save 1000 USD per month with a net salary of 6300 PLN for two people in Warsaw?

Yes, you are right. My bad. $500 at the most, and possibly nothing at all.

Of course you're free to suggest he quits his company for a 'much, much better opportunity' however he can doubtless make his own mind up as to whether or not he wishes to resign.

Or he can decline the transfer without quitting, which is what I suggest he does, and work actively on finding a better job in a richer country. There is absolutely no point in dragging himself and his wife halfway across the planet for a job that allows him to save a paltry $500 at best, and easily nothing at all.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Jul 2015  #69
Or he can decline the transfer without quitting, which is what I suggest he does, and work actively on finding a better job in a richer country.

Perhaps he wants to stay with his company and sees it as a career. You know, the long view. Perhaps it's a chance he never imagined he'd get. Perhaps it's a job he loves. Maybe a golden opportunity. Don't be so negative!
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #70
You know, the long view.

The long view is to find a better job with another employer. If they offered him a job that pays 9500 PLN in Poland, it means he has plenty of salable qualifications, skills and experience that are in demand in richer countries. He's certainly not wet behind the ears.

Maybe a golden opportunity. Don't be so negative!

There is no way, no how that this offer can be considered a "golden opportunity". Not even a tempting opportunity. Not even a sorta mediocre opportunity. No "maybe" about it. Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. Don't be silly!
jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Jul 2015  #71
The long view is to find a better job with another employer.

That depends on him. You don't know his company. And he was asking about deductions from his salary, not advice about what country he should move to.

There is no way, no how that this offer can be considered a "golden opportunity".

A chance to be posted abroad by your company for a while - most people would certainly see that as a golden opportunity.
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #72
most people would certainly see that as a golden opportunity.

The OP isn't "most people". He's a senior IT engineer or high-level specialist or senior financial expert with abundant experience, including management, administrative or consulting experience. People with lesser qualifications don't get offered 9500 PLN a month.

And for a person of his qualifications and experience, being able to save only a few hundred dollars a month (if anything at all) is absolutely atrocious, regardless of his long term plans. Add to that that he is dragging his poor wife halfway across the globe to a place where she will more than likely be bored to death from social isolation and cabin fever.

Short-term sacrifice has it's limits, and this is deep, deep into the extreme zone.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
14 Jul 2015  #73
The OP isn't "most people". People with lesser qualifications don't get offered 9500 PLN a month.

Hahahaha. Dominic, I don't know where you're coming from with this, but you're really out of date with salaries in Poland.

9500PLN a month in Warsaw is nothing special - Poland is seeing a boom when it comes to IT salaries, and 9500 net suggests that he's a run of the mill senior engineer. Salaries for senior engineers these days range from 7000zl gross through to around 13,000zl gross.

More to the point, this move is perfect for him. A couple of years in PL, and he'll be able to get the decent jobs in Western Europe - and furthermore, he'll be able to attend conferences there and so on easily.
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #74
Poland is growing at an astonishing rate in the tech sector

It's microscopic compared to other places on the globe. The tech sector within, say, the municipal limits of Cupertino or Mountain View alone exceeds that of the whole country of Poland by a wide, wide, wide mile. Actually, they exceed the tech budgets of all the Eastern European countries combined. Poland doesn't even register as a serious tech player on the global scale. It's still mostly driven by outsourcing, and R&D dollars are still rather limited.

Poland isn't bad. It's just that there are much, much, much better places to be an engineer, so Poland should not be a realistic option.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
14 Jul 2015  #75
It's microscopic compared to other places on the globe. The tech sector within, say, the municipal limits of Cupertino or Mountain View alone exceeds that of the whole country of Poland by a wide, wide, wide mile.

But then you have to live in the United States, which doesn't appeal to everyone. I certainly know several IT engineers that refused high-paying moves to the US. More to the point, American work culture absolutely sucks compared to Poland. When Google is lauded because they offer 3 months maternity/paternity pay - something is seriously wrong with the work/life balance there. I know a senior VP out there, and in her exact words, there is no possibility to take 2 weeks holiday. In Poland, it's mandatory.

For many people, work/life balance is important. While California might not be full of gun nuts, there are still plenty of unbelievably bad and poor places there that make Myslowice look like a holiday camp.

Poland doesn't even register as a serious tech player on the global scale.

Yet. It's growing. Fast.

It's still mostly driven by outsourcing, and R&D dollars are still rather limited.

And many, many people are coming out of outsourcing and straight into the startup industry. The effects are already being seen - give it another 5 to 10 years and Poland will be a hub of activity.

As for R&D dollars - most of the EU doesn't spend particularly much on it except Germany. And that involves living in Germany...
DominicB - | 2,627    
14 Jul 2015  #76
sucks compared to Poland.

Poland doesn't appear on the top ten list for any quality of life indicators, except perhaps racial and ethnic homogeneity, if you consider that conducive to quality of life. It offers nothing special that numerous other countries do not offer in greater abundance, with far less drawbacks.

Yet. It's growing. Fast.

Means jack $hit. It's far behind and still has a long, long way to go before it even nips at the coattails of the top and second-tier players, and that's not going to be in five or ten years. More like thirty to fifty, optimistically. Don't forget the other players are growing, too.

For many people, work/life balance is important.

Why you would think that Poland is the promised land in this regard is beyond me. Far from it. This is a classic false dichotomy. The choice is absolutely not between the US and Poland. There are plenty of other countries out there that offer much better opportunities for work/life balance, and there are plenty of opportunities to do so in the States. Having lived in both countries, it was my impression that Poles, in general, were much more obsessed about money and working than Americans. And they were much more paranoid about losing their jobs. In any case, job satisfaction in Poland is abysmal compared to the States and Western Europe, which is why so many Polish engineers leave the country for greener pastures.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
14 Jul 2015  #77
Poland doesn't appear on the top ten list for any quality of life indicators, except perhaps racial and ethnic homogeneity, if you consider that conducive to quality of life. It offers nothing special that numerous other countries do not offer in greater abundance, with far less drawbacks.

You're again trying to apply statistical ideas to human nature, which simply doesn't work. For instance, lazy people like myself happen to enjoy the Polish culture towards July/August - where simply nothing happens as no-one can be bothered, even if they're in work. I've seen it in many large corporations and even spoken to many company directors who all say the same thing - nothing happens in Poland in July and August and that it's a waste of time trying to do so. For me, that's nice. Can you measure it? Not really. But on a personal level, it's worth a considerable amount of cash.

Means jack $hit. It's far behind and still has a long, long way to go before it even nips at the coattails of the top and second-tier players, and that's not going to be in five or ten years. More like thirty to fifty, optimistically. Don't forget the other players are growing, too.

They're not growing, this is rather the point. Look at the data for the last 10 years - you can see that Poland is just pushing and pushing all the time. As it stands, Poland is the Lance Armstrong of countries - aided with drugs, but still performing at such a ridiculously high level that it's not funny. The challenge is to make sure that there's a future from 2021 onwards. We don't have crystal balls, so all we can do is observe that the money is pouring into Poland.

There are plenty of other countries out there that offer much better opportunities for work/life balance

Where? The Nordic countries and the UK are obvious, but their weather sucks. Germany always comes up, but then you have to adopt German work practices which drive many people insane because it's so damned efficient. Austria? Maybe, but your neighbours will hate you behind your back. France? Maybe, but their taxation regime is punishing. And so on.

If I was choosing, I'd live in Finland - but that's because I like the country and their attitude to life. However, there are immense drawbacks, such as not being able to simply get in your car and drive somewhere nice.

Having lived in both countries, it was my impression that Poles, in general, were much more obsessed about money and working than Americans.

I'd agree on the money point (Poles are materialistic, there's no getting away from that) - but with work, most of them seem to specialise in finding ways to do as little as possible.

. And they were much more paranoid about losing their jobs.

Common problem in Europe, not just Poland. The UK in particular has horrific issues with it. I think it's only really Germany that has any concept of 'long-term employment' anymore.

In any case, job satisfaction in Poland is abysmal compared to the States and Western Europe, which is why so many Polish engineers leave the country for greener pastures.

They leave because they're offered so much money that they can't say no, which says a lot about how highly they're valued.

As for job satisfaction - ever considered that such a measure might be also affected by culture? Americans are much cheerier, happier people by nature - Polish Catholic fatalism means that *everything* is terrible even when it's not. I know one guy that quit his job because - believe it or not - his boss wouldn't agree to let him work on his car in the company parking garage. Apparently because of that, his boss was a "egotistical maniac" and so on - yet when I questioned him, everything else was fine, just he wanted to do car repairs in the parking garage because he didn't have a covered garage at home.
DominicB - | 2,627    
15 Jul 2015  #78
For instance, lazy people like myself happen to enjoy the Polish culture towards July/August

What of all of that could possibly apply to a senior engineer or financial expert from the Subcontinent? They certainly aren't interested in eking out a frugal, but bucolic (actually, more bubonic) existence in a god-forsaken backwater where they will have trouble fitting in, where they have no interest in staying more than a year or two at the most, where their families will suffer from social isolation and boredom, and where they will be able to save up only a paltry sum of money towards their nest-egg?

Sorry, but I have trouble believing that any Asian engineer would even consider that at all appealing. The only attraction that Poland holds for them is 1) as a back door into the EU, which is not a smart strategy as they can go in through the front door; and b) something to enhance their CV with, which is likewise as there are abundant much better opportunities available in richer countries.

Poland is the Lance Armstrong of countries

As Carl Sagan's father repeatedly told his son, "I've told you billions and billions of times not to exaggerate". Poland hasn't "arrived" yet. Not by a longshot.

Common problem in Europe, not just Poland. The UK in particular has horrific issues with it

Employment wise, the UK is a veritable bed of roses compared to Poland.

As for job satisfaction - ever considered that such a measure might be also affected by culture?

For an engineer, job satisfaction is primarily a factor of being able to autonomously shape their careers and work on innovative and interesting projects for decent remuneration, particularly in a place where R&D and investment money flows in rivers. Working in a SSC in Poland is not going to do much to help them achieve that goal. They are setting their sights low because they haven't explored more promising opportunities.

Americans are much cheerier, happier people by nature

No, they are not. They are cheerier and happier because the quality of life and chances for advancement are much better than in Poland.

which says a lot about how highly they're valued.

Oh, God. Not the old myth that Polish engineers are somehow special again. Polish engineers would disagree. Every single one I have ever spoken to was dissatisfied with Polish higher education, in particular the poorly funded practical course, and the lack of cooperation between universities and the business and industrial communities. They are hired in richer countries because there is a great demand for engineers there, whether from Poland or the Subcontinent.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
15 Jul 2015  #79
Asian engineer

You keep coming back talking about some engineers or senior financial expert.

The OP hasn't even mentioned his profession yet you are basing your arguments on what you believe the OP's profession might be,

I know of an Indian companiy in Poland which brings in "SME's" from India when they set up new projects. They normally bring them in for 6 months or a year. At home in India, in their normal work environment they are "simple" accountants, credit controllers or accounts payable clerks. But, because they have been with the company for a number of years, they know the environment and are being brought over to Poland on assignment to help with the new project / engagement set up.

There not engineers or senior financial experts but to make it attractive for them, they are being offered a higher compensation for their trouble.

All the posts that you have written in this thread are completely worthless because you base your arguments on assumptions, not on facts.

Quite poor and disappointing for someone who apparently studied hard to "beef up his salable qualifications" in order to retire early. As an educated person with apparently two patents that allowed you to retire early, you should know better than basing your arguments on assumptions.
Polsyr 6 | 772    
15 Jul 2015  #80
Polish engineers would disagree. Every single one I have ever spoken to was dissatisfied with Polish higher education, in particular the poorly funded practical course.

I agree with this statement 100% based on my own experience with many Polish engineers or engineering graduates of Polish universities.

I add my own story to that. I was a guest lecturer (one time only) at one of the top technical institutions in the country, and when I told the students that I would like to personally take them for a field visit to do some practical work, their jaws fell down and everyone signed up. They were genuinely excited. They were badly missing practical education. This happened in 2014, not in 1989.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
15 Jul 2015  #81
What of all of that could possibly apply to a senior engineer or financial expert from the Subcontinent?

But you're missing the point. Poland is but a stepping stone - they establish themselves in Europe, attend a few conferences and within 2-3 years, they've got themselves a nice position in the Western world. Not every worker from there is good enough to immediately walk into jobs in the West. I've known several people to do it, and all of them repeat the same thing - that Poland offered an excellent place to progress from.

Sorry, but I have trouble believing that any Asian engineer would even consider that at all appealing.

Except there aren't abundant opportunities! This is what you seem to miss - in countries such as The Netherlands, there are simply not enough jobs available. You seem to be convinced that the West is full of great jobs just waiting for non-EU workers - the reality is that these jobs are going to people from this part of the world. People are not going to waste their time getting work permits and so on when they can just hire someone from Poland.

As Carl Sagan's father repeatedly told his son, "I've told you billions and billions of times not to exaggerate". Poland hasn't "arrived" yet. Not by a longshot.

But it is arriving, and crucially, the environment is still very much open to those that want to do something. It's a shame you're not in Poland anymore, otherwise I'd happily introduce you to some VC guys that are very excited about the possibilities here.

Employment wise, the UK is a veritable bed of roses compared to Poland.

Sorry, but the UK is not. Anyone that's lived there knows the reality - that the good jobs are in places that you can't afford to live.

Working in a SSC in Poland is not going to do much to help them achieve that goal.

Almost every single person working in an SSC (not that these guys will be - they will be working in BPO's, which are different, as Romek told you repeatedly) has the chance to transfer abroad. More to the point, it's a matter of getting in the door. Everyone upon everyone wants those jobs - and for 99% of us, getting in there just isn't that easy. You're also forgetting that not everyone wants to work in such environments - some people are perfectly happy being a small part of the machine and they don't need autonomy and so on. I know one guy who started his professional career smuggling TV's into Poland - 25 years on, he's very very happy with his large modern apartment, nice cars and decent lifestyle in Poland as a software engineer. He doesn't need seniority or career progression - and isn't even looking for it.

No, they are not. They are cheerier and happier because the quality of life and chances for advancement are much better than in Poland.

My, my.

If it was really so simple, then you'd expect the Finns to be happy people, wouldn't you? Culture has a huge impact upon these things - Polish people are perceived as liking to moan and complain, and hence it's obvious that they aren't particularly happy in work.

Every single one I have ever spoken to was dissatisfied with Polish higher education.

And yet they succeed in droves.

As for Polish higher education, that's nothing new. Doesn't stop a huge amount of talent coming through.
DominicB - | 2,627    
15 Jul 2015  #82
But you're missing the point. Poland is but a stepping stone

No. You're missing the point. For experienced senior professionals like the OP, there is no need for a "stepping stone". They can go in the front door.

Except there aren't abundant opportunities!

There certainly are. More and better ones than in Poland. Where do you think all those Polish engineers are going? There is an acute shortage of engineers in all of the rich countries.

Sorry, but the UK is not.

It most certainly is, compared to Poland. A veritable land of milk and honey. No doubt about it. That's why there are so many Poles in the UK, and far fewer Brits working in Poland.

But it is arriving

Not as soon as you think. And the amount of capital floating about in Poland is microscopic compared to the richer countries.

Almost every single person working in an SSC (not that these guys will be - they will be working in BPO's, which are different, as Romek told you repeatedly) has the chance to transfer abroad. More to the point, it's a matter of getting in the door.

Again, there is no need for a stepping stone or back door.

Finns to be happy people, wouldn't you?

You don't see Finns leaving their country in droves, especially for Poland.

As for Polish higher education, that's nothing new. Doesn't stop a huge amount of talent coming through.

Actually, it does. Polish engineers start at a disadvantage compared to those trained in the US, the UK, Switzerland or Sweden. Practical courses, innovative projects and high-quality internships cost more money than Polish universities can afford, and the lack of R&D bucks compounds the problem.

Please stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. I have little regard for boosterism.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
15 Jul 2015  #83
senior professionals like the OP

Nothing but an assumption. Where did the OT state his experience or seniority?

All your arguments are worthless because based on assumptions.
Agastya    
15 Jul 2015  #84
Hi,

I am working in India, My company offering me to relocate to Poland for a salary of 8566 PLN (Gross) per month. I guess my net salary will be 6035 PLN per month.

What would be monthly expenditure per month?

Kindly help me in getting this information, it would be very helpful for me to take further decisions. You suggestions are valued.

Note: It will be helpful if i can get monthly expenditure for 2 conditions
a) If i travel alone
b) If i come along with my wife (She is working in India, she has to quit Job if we need to relocate to Poland)
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
15 Jul 2015  #85
No. You're missing the point. For experienced senior professionals like the OP, there is no need for a "stepping stone". They can go in the front door.

But they cannot. This is what you seem to be missing - why would they even consider Poland if they could walk straight in?

There certainly are. More and better ones than in Poland. Where do you think all those Polish engineers are going? There is an acute shortage of engineers in all of the rich countries.

The thing is that they're coming from Poland in the first place. Poland needs to replace them, hence there are opportunities for non-EU citizens. And so on. These people aren't being hired straight out of university - they're working in Poland first, and then being headhunted from here.

It most certainly is, compared to Poland. A veritable land of milk and honey. No doubt about it. That's why there are so many Poles in the UK, and far fewer Brits working in Poland.

There's only one slight problem : obtaining a working visa for non-EU nationals is very, very tough and is about to get even tougher.

Not as soon as you think. And the amount of capital floating about in Poland is microscopic compared to the richer countries.

It's growing. Rapidly. Perhaps you had little contact with these sorts of things (which is obvious, given that your salary ranges quoted are way out of date), but there's a spark there and people are showing interest in Poland.

Again, there is no need for a stepping stone or back door.

Since when?

Perhaps in your ideal world where everyone is able to just pack up and study intensive mathematics - but in the real world, life is never so black and white.

You don't see Finns leaving their country in droves, especially for Poland.

I know several that came because (like the Dutch) - there's little hope of a corporate career in Finland for most average people. In Poland, you've got the start of a career without much difficulty. As an HR friend says - there has to be something wrong with you if you can't get employed here.

Actually, it does. Polish engineers start at a disadvantage compared to those trained in the US, the UK, Switzerland or Sweden. Practical courses, innovative projects and high-quality internships cost more money than Polish universities can afford, and the lack of R&D bucks compounds the problem.

I don't think you've been near a university in the UK or Sweden in your life. The idea that the UK has practical courses, innovative projects and high quality internships is just laughable - most degrees are very similar to here, just with a huge price tag. My own university was a perfect example - next to nothing practical, large amounts of theoretical nonsense and teachers who quite obviously would rather be at home working on their own projects. I don't recall any sort of practical courses or innovative projects - it was rather mundane.
Agastya    
15 Jul 2015  #86
Company is offering me to relocate to

Czestochowa, Poland

to be accurate.
DreamIsland    
15 Jul 2015  #87
Oh my God....I am really thankful to you guys for this lovely discussion. Got so much information about Poland and its pros and cons. Infact it will help me a lot to understand this opportunity and also any future opportunities that might come from this first step.

I would just like to mention few things about my background so that you can guide me better:

1. I am an engineer with MBA degree. But I am not working in IT firm. Its a mix of both. Its technical research and consulting. I have an experience of 4 years only. I am doing pretty good till now in India, so my company wants me to relocate to Poland so that I can work closely with EU clients. As someone mentioned, it will help me to visit clients in EU region and attend meetings and conferences.

Do you still think 9500pln is good with this background and experience?

2. I don't have an option to relocate to any other parts other than Poland. Though my company told me this opportunity may open up few more options in future in other EU regions if I perform well. If I don't accept, I need to continue in India only. Poland is just an option company provided with this salary. And I would not like to quit my job at this moment as I think I need to gather more experience and I like my profile here (using both engineering and MBA degree) and my responsibilities. In addition, I would definitely like to explore foreign countries as I like traveling and Photography.

Do you still think relocation to Poland with these conditions, is actually an opportunity for me?

3. If I can save around 2000pln i.e approximately 500USD per month after a decent living, food, one EU country tour every 4 month for next 2-3 years and all other daily expenses like transportation, I would be more than happy at this stage. I am just 30 years old, so I just want to explore and roam around with my wife at this stage.

Do you still think after all these conditions, that I will be able to save 2000pln per month in Warsaw?
delphiandomine 87 | 16,848    
15 Jul 2015  #88
Ignoring Dominic's doom and gloom - go to otodom.pl or gratka.pl and have a look at accommodation there. Add roughly 500-600zl to the price of rent for the utilities/heating/etc.

Food is very cheap, so you don't have to worry there. Transportation is also very cheap if you're happy to take public transport.

What does your wife do, if you don't mind me asking? If she speaks English, there's always the possibility of her also finding work.
Agastya    
15 Jul 2015  #89
delphiandomine -
What does your wife do, if you don't mind me asking?

She is working as Test Engineer.
I am working as Senior Software Developer .
DominicB - | 2,627    
15 Jul 2015  #90
Dominic's doom and gloom

What doom and gloom, pray tell? What I wrote was extremely optimistic about the OP's chances of success in finding a good job in a richer country.

If she speaks English, there's always the possibility of her also finding work.

A very remote possibility. Make your plans on the very safe assumption that she will not be able to earn a single penny in Poland, unless she happens to be an IT specialist with abundant experience in some exotic skill set that is highly in demand.



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