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Polish citizen with American husband in Poland ~ work ops?


oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #1
My husband and I are looking to move to Poland with our toddler son. We both hold Bachelor degrees from the USA (i am a dual citizen)~ I plan on going back to school while he finds a job, however he does not speak Polish so his work will be limited ~

his degree is in communications from the USA- are there any opportunities besides an english teacher that could support a family of 3? just looking for ideas/opinions on being an english teacher as well. thank you for any help.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #2
Where were you planning on moving to? That makes a big difference.

With no useful qualifications, experience or any knowledge of Polish, your husband's options are very limited indeed. Teaching and call-center work are the only options, and both pay poorly.

Good teaching jobs at good schools have become hard to find. and go to people who are "in the know". Most of what is easily available for newbies without qualifications and experience is at "method schools" (Callan, Direct Method, Avalon and Berlitz). These jobs are lousy and pay peanuts, and even the experience gained while working for them is worthless as far as getting a job at a better school is involved.

Call-center jobs are easier to find, but the work is horrible: cold-call sales (lead generation), low-level, first contact debt collection, or marketing surveys. The pay is very low unless you have real qualifications and experience in IT, or a proven track record in sales. If your plan is for your husband to support you and your kid while you go back to school, that is almost certainly not going to work out. It will be four or five years before he is speaking decent Polish, and without that, he is going to be stuck at the bottom of the job pecking order.

What is your degree in are you planning on going back to school for? Unless it's something that is very valuable on the Polish or international job market, you would be wasting your time.

Sorry, but the Polish-girl-misses-her-family-and-wants-to-move-back-to-Poland-hoping-that-her-non-Polish-boyfriend/husband-is-going-to-find-gainful-employment story rarely has a happy ending. It's usually a recipe for disaster. Nothing in your post indicates that your case will turn out otherwise. The fact that your husband has no saleable qualifications or experience that are worth anything on the Polish job market and does not speak Polish considerably reduce your chances of making it work.

My advice is to focus on making a life for yourselves in the States, reschooling as necessary to obtain qualifications that are actually worth something on the job market and enables both of you to support yourselves and your families. Employment and educational opportunities for your husband are astronomically higher in the States than they would be in Poland, and it is very difficult to see how throwing that away and moving to Poland is going to improve your life as a family.

You are married and have a kid. It's time to stop thinking like children and start thinking like adults, and to do that, you are going to need serious advice from qualified adults.
KoszalinChris - | 5
19 Dec 2017 #3
@ Mr Dominic B - Brutally honest, but advice worth listening to I think Oczko1993!

Perhaps your husband could branch out with his communications degree into a computer based science, I'm no expert but I often read about immigrants moving to Poland and working for Polish or indeed multi-nation computer companies.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #4
Brutally honest

No point in trying to soften the blow here. The OP needs a good swift kick in the pants more than anything else. Thanks.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #5
I am going for my law degree and plan to permanently stay in Poland and later get my LLM. My family is actually in the USA so polish girl misses her family doesn't apply here. My husband has experience in finance and legislative work so we thought that perhaps a consulate job or an American firm would hire him. I understand you're trying to give brutal advice but it sounds more rude than anything- thanks though
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #6
If your husband is going to get a job with an American company or the foreign service, that will only happen if he does so BEFORE he goes to Poland. Chances of landing a good job like that AFTER he gets to Poland are slim to none. The competition for jobs in the Foreign Service is incredibly fierce. American companies generally hire only very experienced upper management or administrative professionals, or senior technical specialists or consultants with 20+ years of experience. There aren't many opportunities for junior or even mid-level personnel, unless they speak fluent Polish.

As for a law degree, forget about it unless you have abundant close (preferably family) contacts in the field in Poland, and are a top student at a top school. Otherwise, the degree is just about useless. There is a huge glut of law school graduates in Poland (as there is in just about any other country, including the States), and most will never work a single day in the profession.

You really do have to sit down with some competent adults and make some realistic plans. You're deep into niebieskie migdały territory. Poland doesn't treat silly dreamers kindly. It chews them up and spits them out. Gdybywanie is not going to feed you and your family.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #7
What do you consider a top school? I do have lawyers in the family. Thanks.

Here's another question since you seem to be so well informed as a native English and polish speaker ~ how likely am I to get a job there? Also we planned on moving to a bigger city like Warszawa albo Kraków
Taxpaying voter
19 Dec 2017 #8
are there any opportunities besides an english teacher that could support a family of 3?

With no qualifications, no experience and no connections, plus being limited to one of the big cities by your plan to go to a decent law school, i.e. being where the competition is fiercest, he'd be doing very well indeed to bring home enough to support a family of 3 to anything past student living level. Factor in the need to pay for childcare and the numbers just do not add up. It's very possible to survive the couple of years needed to make the contacts and gain the experience the decent jobs demand and after that pull in enough for a decent standard of living, but trying to support a non-working wife and a young child, particularly without a family support network, is close to impossible.

so we thought that perhaps a consulate job

That idea doesn't really suggest much thought.

What do you consider a top school?

UW,JU, UG, the other UW, UKSW and KUL (maybe, for some specialisms). Although most of the staff at top table firms were at one of UW or JU.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #9
I was considering Warszawa for 5 year then LLM and no much thought hasn't been given because we just started talking about this a day ago hence why I came on this forum to seek ideas/experiences/thoughts
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Dec 2017 #10
Don't forget UAM, which is usually 3rd behind UJ and UW in law.

but trying to support a non-working wife and a young child, particularly without a family support network, is close to impossible.

Couldn't agree more. It's going to be nearly impossible to pull off, not least because law studies are intensive. Almost every single person that studied law at UAM that I know was putting in an exceptional amount of hours of work. Without having full time (and then some) child care, it's just not gong to happen.

There is a huge glut of law school graduates in Poland

Absolutely. I don't always agree with Dominic in this case, but law is a terrible career move, especially in Poland.

innpoland.pl/129779,nie-uwierzysz-jak-malo-zarabiaja-dzis-w-polsce-prawnicy-uciekaja-z-zawodu-gdzie-pieprz-rosnie

This article explains it perfectly. Salaries are low, even by Polish standards.

It might actually make much more sense to pass a bar exam in the US and move to Poland as a US-qualified lawyer that can represent companies in dealings with American clients than to try and qualify in law in Poland.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #11
@oczko1993

A job is not the problem. A job that pays enough to support yourself and your family is, especially if, as your nick suggests, you are only 24, will be going to school full-time, and have to take care of a toddler, too. That doesn't leave much time over for work, so whatever job you get would have to pay quite a bit for the limited hours you do work. A lot depends on the degree you currently have, but there are precious few high-paying jobs for 24-year-olds in Poland.

Actually, you're not going to be able to make it unless your husband is earning a decent wage.

Lawyers in the family is a start, but only a start if they do not own their own successful practices. If they can't actually hire you for your first job, then it would be wise to consider an alternative career. Have you gotten a promise from one of your relatives that they are going to hire you when you finish school?

You seem to be seeing the silver linings but ignoring the much larger dark clouds. Poland is not a easy place to earn money and build a career, which is why so many young Poles leave the country for better opportunities abroad, and very few people from richer countries moves to Poland unless they have qualifications, skills and experience that are readily saleable on the Polish job market. You are way too optimistic. Disturbingly so. Optimism and Poland are a dangerous combination. Abundant caution, risk-assessment, cold hard realism and several workable back-up plans are more likely to result in success.

What is you present degree in?
Taxpaying voter
19 Dec 2017 #12
I was considering Warszawa

If you want a seat at the top table, Warsaw is pretty much your only choice given that Krakow draws people who want to live there and then think what to do to pay the bills and so has much lower wages for teachers.

for 5 year then LLM

So, you'll be in your 30s before you even apply for bar training. Do you know what the life of a young lawyer who wants to get places is like?

no much thought hasn't been given because we just started talking about this a day ago hence why I came on this forum to seek ideas/experiences/thoughts

My thoughts are that your plan will not end at all well.
My personal experiences don't exactly apply as I didn't come here with a wife and young child to support but having been here for a couple of decades I cannot think of even one couple who fit your description (i.e. he doesn't speak Polish, she plans to not work and they have no family here) who have lasted here. We do sometimes, more often now, see couples where he doesn't speak Polish, she plans to not work and they do family here and I'd guesstimate that half of those couples split up within five years of getting here.

My idea is that you would be well advised to look for opportunities in the USA.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #13
to pass a bar exam in the US and move to Poland as a US-qualified lawyer that can represent companies

I don't always agree with Delph :) but I have to agree that this is a much more realistic plan if you have your heart set on law.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #14
Well that law school- was one option but another was me working full time and husband working as a teacher/part time my degree is in a political field "pre law" degree from the USA ~ as far as child care I believe that schools are free in Poland so at least that would be covered, correct? Then after we have our wits about us I could go to school. Anyways it's just brainstorming I do appreciate the unabated criticism in any form.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #15
Why do you want to move back to Poland? Why would your husband want to? You haven't said anything about that.

A golden rule is that if you are not able to make a go of it in a rich country with tons of opportunities and a very high lifetime earnings/savings potential like the US, then you certainly aren't going to be able to make a go of it in a poorer country with much fewer opportunities and a much lower lifetime earnings/savings potential like Poland.
kaprys 3 | 2,286
19 Dec 2017 #16
How old is your child?
Do you need work permit to work in Poland?
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #17
I am a dual Polish/American citizen my son is as well by birth I just have to file the paperwork ~ we want to move because neither of us feel a tie here and our son is fluent in polish so we think it will be a great opportunity for him. I can go to school there for free which is a bonus. There are other reason as well. I went to school and lived there until I was 8 and do have family there just not direct- I never chose to

come to the USA and if I could have I wouldn't have

And lifetime earning potential? I have 90K in student loans and have to pay $800/month most young people are royally screwed here I don't know what opportunities you're talking about but it's not as grand as you make it sound. ~ they take

on debt as naive 17 year olds with the promise of some crazy education and then have to work menial jobs to even scrape by. That is the reality unlike a 5 year law degree in Poland at the nations capitol for FREE
kaprys 3 | 2,286
19 Dec 2017 #18
So .... is your child old enough to go to school or should he go to przedszkole or żłobek?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Dec 2017 #19
I can go to school there for free which is a bonus.

Wait, do you realise that "free" university studies involve competitive entry? You'll have to compete on the same terms as Polish school graduates, which means that you'll need advanced passes in Polish, a foreign language and History/Mathematics. If you don't have all three at American AP level, you won't have a chance of getting a place on free daytime studies.

More to the point, are you sure you'll be able to work in Polish at such a high level? Law requires constant work and Polish legal language is completely different to the literary language.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #20
By the time went he would go to kindergarten @delphiandomine
As I mentioned before I have native proficiency in both languages and have been tested to be native in the polish language for my university credits~ to answer your question I think I may have to put in a few months of work to be at a very high working level of polish but yes I think it's very doable. I took AP classes in high school however I have a Bachelor so I do believe that would be taken into consideration AP are just high school courses for college credit. I have been in contact with different polish institutions so I think that info is beside the point at hand which is primarily if my husband can get a job or what kind of jobs I qualify for as a native polish and English speaker with a political degree from the USA
Taxpaying voter
19 Dec 2017 #21
as far as child care I believe that schools are free in Poland so at least that would be covered, correct?

From the age of seven. But you'd still need help after school.

I have 90K in student loans and have to pay $800/month

In that case forget all about Poland: there's no way that you could study here full time while your husband supports you and the kid and pays $800 in loans. Even with both of you working as you describe above, you'd struggle very badly earning enough to live on and repay your loans.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #22
I'm not concerned about getting into school I'm concerned with how to live at a middle class level while I'm in school or when we get there. We will have 15,000 USD in savings or so but I don't know how long that would stretch in Warszawa~ as far as my loans that's again besides the point and not my original question they are taken care of
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Dec 2017 #23
As I mentioned before I have native proficiency in both languages and have been tested to be native in the polish language for my university credits

It's not enough. The rules state that you need to have an advanced high school pass in Polish. They cannot recognise university credits - the rules are very very strict on this. Have a look here for UAM (but all universities will be similar) - rekrutacja.amu.edu.pl/Strona/Kierunki/Szczegoly/Prawo,377

however I have a Bachelor so I do believe that would be taken into consideration

Nope. It's only taken into consideration if you wish to access an Master's level degree, but the chances of them recognising a US pre-law degree as being equal to a BA is highly unlikely. The rules are very strict about what is admissible and what isn't, especially on heavily oversubscribed programmes like law.

if my husband can get a job or what kind of jobs I qualify for as a native polish and English speaker with a political degree from the USA

You'd get an entry level job in a corporation without problems, but the salary is going to be 3000zł net maximum. Likewise your husband - he can probably get a job in a corporation, but again, 3000zł is the limit.
Taxpaying voter
19 Dec 2017 #24
I'm concerned with how to live at a middle class level while I'm in school or when we get there.

With only him working, you will not be at middle class level in Warsaw. End of story. He might make the average wage in Warsaw but in the average family both parents work.

We will have 15,000 USD in savings or so but I don't know how long that would stretch in Warszawa

Flights, moving expenses, housing costs will eat about a third of that. Then you're left with about eight months' average salary in Warsaw at most.

Wait, do you realise that "free" university studies involve competitive entry?

And both UW and JU are very, very competitive indeed when it comes to Law & Admin faculty.
kaprys 3 | 2,286
19 Dec 2017 #25
What you should consider is looking for a job in Poland from the US. You'll see if you have any chances and how much you may be offered.

Paying off your student loan, renting a place and everyday life costs- that's a lot of money.
Check żłobek and przedszkole options for your child, too. It's not totally free for state institutions and if there are no places you'll have to pay for a private one. There used to be problems witaj places at state żłobek/przedszkole. Not sure what it looks like nowadays.
OP oczko1993 1 | 17
19 Dec 2017 #26
You need to have an advanced pass in polish as a polish citizen? Also Warszawski uniwersytet allows one to speak to the committee in polish on different topics to fulfill this requirement so your info isn't all accurate that's not the only way ~ @kaprys that's what I am thinking also doing the law school here which I can get a full scholarship

With my lsat score and then applying for firms in Poland. And for anyone saying we can't make a life here I could apply to Georgetown tomorrow and be admitted it's just that neither myself or my husband align with American life or ideals~ another option is doing an LLM in Poland at said university after JD
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Dec 2017 #27
Not sure what it looks like nowadays.

It's pretty bad - żłobek access is almost impossible for free, while getting a kindergarten place is hit or miss. It's particularly bad right now because of the school deform, but it wasn't much better a couple of years ago.

You need to have an advanced pass in polish as a polish citizen?

Yes. It's in the link I posted above - you need to have Polish as a school subject (not as a foreign language). Did you complete Polish Saturday school and get an approved świadectwo? Or you could take the Polish Matura exam, which would be easiest.

Also Warszawski uniwersytet allows one to speak to the committee in polish on different topics to fulfill this requirement so your info isn't all accurate that's not the only way

That won't happen for law. Imagine that you're up against some of the very best high school graduates in Poland - all of whom will have advanced passes in Polish as a school subject. Of course, it will work for less popular studies, or ones which only attract weak applicants, but it's not going to work for law.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #28
I have 90K in student loans and have to pay $800/month

That pretty much seals the deal. Poland is out of the question if you have that kind of debt to pay back. Wages are far too low, and the cost of living is quite high compared to wages. On Polish wages, you will be paying that back until you are old and grey.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
19 Dec 2017 #29
That pretty much seals the deal

Dominic, you'll know better on this - is it possible that the OP is trying to escape her student loans? I mean - is it possible to defer them for not earning enough, or does it have to be paid regardless of your status?
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Dec 2017 #30
is it possible that the OP is trying to escape her student loans?

That was my first thought as well until she said her folks lived in the States.

I don't think so, because their parents had to cosign on those loans and would be responsible for paying them off. Yes, it is possible to defer or reschedule the loans, within reason. The agency is quite accommodating in case of genuine hardship, as long as you don't default.

I think it's a case of her realizing her degree is worthless,and that she needs major reschooling and cannot afford to do that in the States. She is probably going to ask mom and dad to cover her payments while she goes to school for free in Poland. When she makes it big as a lawyer, she will be able to pay them back. They just might go for it. I doubt that his folks will, though, and I'm guessing that he also has debts to pay off.

Feel sorta sorry for them. Like she said, they were young and naive when the picked their majors, and they got lots of advice at the time, good and bad. They made a foolish mistake and ignored the good advice.

Anyone who advises young people to study worthless majors should be tarred and feathered, and held personally responsible for the debts these students run up.


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