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Moving Wroclaw/ Salary negotiations as a senior research engineer with PHD


temporary
14 Jan 2015 #1
Hi,

I have a PHD, and planning to move Wroclaw to join an international company. I will join as a senior research engineer. Now, i am in salary negotions stage. What is the salary that I should ask to have a nice stay and save some.

Thank you.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
14 Jan 2015 #2
A search on the forum has all the answers - this question has been asked many times.
OP temporary
14 Jan 2015 #3
I checked. Nothing for experience level of PHD. Company is Nokia.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
14 Jan 2015 #4
See threads on: PhD Poland.
OP temporary
15 Jan 2015 #5
Thank you. I am thinking of asking 200,000 PLN/ year. I hope it is fine, comparing to the person who got 186000 in 2009.
DominicB - | 2,709
15 Jan 2015 #6
Now, i am in salary negotiations stage. What is the salary that I should ask to have a nice stay and save some.

The worst way to enter the salary negotiations stage is to respond to their request for your opinion of what you should earn. Always make them be the first to mention a concrete figure, or else you lose. And keep your limit hidden from them. Don't ever give in for fear of being impolite or of not getting the job. They will lose all respect for you and know that they can fcuk you over whenever they want with impunity because, basically, you gave them permission to.

Also, don't be afraid to just hang up the phone if their offer is too low, say less than 75% of your hold-out price. If that's the case, negotiating is a simple waste of time for you and them, because you will never be able to bring them up into the range that is acceptable for you. A quick hang-up without bothering to even say goodbye sends them the clear message that they have crossed the line, and if they do call you back, that shows that they value you more than their initial offer. So you're in a much better position.

It's better not to take a job at all than to take one from an employer who takes advantage of your weaker position before you even sign a contract with them.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
15 Jan 2015 #7
Thank you. I am thinking of asking 200,000 PLN/ year. I hope it is fine, comparing to the person who got 186000 in 2009.

I hope all goes well, but I'd not do any of the hanging up the phone stuff suggested elsewhere of course. If they seem reluctant to pay what you want, merely politely suggest what is your minimum figure and say you can't afford to work for less, simple as that. Keep it all polite and good humoured. Of course, you don't need me to tell you this stuff, I know.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
15 Jan 2015 #8
200 000 PLN gross in Poland is very hard to get. People with PhD rarely work in their professions and even less earn a lot. Check how much earn people from your profession with MSc + as many years experience as your working years + your PhD time. Simply treat your PhD as experience from a good company, nothing more. As it's Nokia's outsourcing center you can count on 5000 - 15000 zł gross per month IMHO and you would have to be very lucky to reach the upper range.

Here you have few salaries reports:
tiny.cc/hays-pdf
tiny.cc/outsourcing-pdf
placeprogramistow.apphb.com
And here salaries of people with PhD in Poland:
regiopraca.pl/portal/rynek-pracy/zarobki/czy-doktorat-sie-oplaca
( those lucky to have a job )
gosc112
15 Jan 2015 #9
There is some very inappropriate advice here. You should research the market and find out what salary you need to earn in order to carry on the lifestyle you have where you are now. It indeed isn't quite fair for them to ask for a salary expectation when you've never worked in the country. Just tell them this and ask their advice. I'd need to see a job spec but I don't think 200,000 is out of the question, if this is a technical role in IT.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
15 Jan 2015 #10
I'd need to see a job spec but I don't think 200,000 is out of the question, if this is a technical role in IT.

Most of jobs in IT which pay this much are in small companies which work directly for American clients. Nokia is an outsourcing center and it's here in Poland in order to pay as little as possible.
DominicB - | 2,709
15 Jan 2015 #11
Nokia is an outsourcing center and it's here in Poland in order to pay as little as possible.

Oddly, one engineer I know that used to work at Nokia in Wrocław got the attention of the world vice president of the company during and inspection tour, and was offered a five-year contract in India at eight time the wages he was making in Poland.
OP temporary
15 Jan 2015 #12
Thank you for all inputs. Do you believe it a good idea to move from Finland.
How is the life in Wroclaw. How you compare it to Finland. In Finland, we are not feeling unsafe as foreigners. What about in Wroclaw.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,880
15 Jan 2015 #13
A quick hang-up without bothering to even say goodbye sends them the clear message that they have crossed the line, and if they do call you back

sorry Dominic, but that is dreadful advice. Hanging up on someone means that immediately you have put yourself on the back foot.
Much better to say something like 'I am going to end this call now, do call me if you have a more sensible suggestion. Goodbye, bye'.

Temporary, are you Indian? I imagine you would get more stares, but then so do all foreigners.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
15 Jan 2015 #14
Thank you for all inputs. Do you believe it a good idea to move from Finland.
How is the life in Wroclaw. How you compare it to Finland. In Finland, we are not feeling unsafe as foreigners. What about in Wroclaw.

You mean that you feel save in Finland? In Poland you will be OK too as long as you look as Pole. Otherwise you should be save too, but people may stare at you. I don't think that crisis hit Finland so much that it would be profitable to move to Wrocław:

numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Finland&country2=Poland&city1=Helsinki&city2=Wroclaw&name_city_id1=Helsinki%2C+Finland&name_city_id2=Wroclaw%2C+Poland
OP temporary
15 Jan 2015 #15
Hi rozumiemnic,

Yes. I am Indian. I have a small family. Wife and kid. Can they go out play with other kids. And go shopping alone, when i am at office. Is that safe ?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,880
15 Jan 2015 #16
I honestly could not say, you would be better off waiting for InWroclaw to answer, he lives in that city.
OP temporary
15 Jan 2015 #17
Hi Monitor, In Finland, I am in a working contract in a small company. The offer is for a permanent position in a good company.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
15 Jan 2015 #18
I honestly could not say, you would be better off waiting for InWroclaw to answer, he lives in that city.

Well, I was in Skytower yesterday and because they looked at me (perhaps because I looked a bit freaky!) I noticed lots of people yesterday, and a fairly significant number of males 20-40 years of age of Arab and also what might be regarded as Indian appearance. This is a change on a few years back, so I assume that communities are springing up. I certainly look forward to the day when I can get a decent Indian take away here !!!!
Monitor 14 | 1,820
15 Jan 2015 #19
Find few Indians in this forum and send them private message with the same question (you have to register for that).
Start search here, but it's hard to tell which of them live in Poland, so better write to those who wrote many posts here:

?action=pfmembers&morder=user_id&sorder=1&memberSearch=user_from&memberSearchVal=India
OP temporary
15 Jan 2015 #20
Hi Again. The offer is 40000 euro annual gross. Could you please tell me how much I get after tax and everything else. They also considering giving apartment rental allowance. Not sure the percentage yet. Is this a good offer in Poland ?
DominicB - | 2,709
16 Jan 2015 #21
That's about 9000 PLN a month after taxes (27,000 Euro a year).

Is this a good offer in Poland ?

Well, you are not Polish, and not in Poland, so this question is sort of pointless. What does matter is whether that amount of money is a good offer for you, where you are. Is it good enough to justify moving to Poland for? It will cover basic expenses for a couple and one child. Depends on your standard of living now where you are.

Also, does the job make sense not only financially, but also in terms of career advancement. Only you can answer that.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
16 Jan 2015 #22
40000 eur = 173000 pln so it's nearly 15000 pln monthly gross which I mentioned as maximum available for most of people. It's 14400 pln gross monthly or 10000 pln net with current exchange rate. Meaning that you couldn't get better deal in Poland as a scientist/engineer. And if they pay for apartment then you can live great in Poland for that money. Only major expense would be English school for your kid if you don't want him to attend free Polish school. Wrocław is also one of the best cities in Poland to live and prices as you could see in numbeo.com are much lower than in Finland.
mmb
23 Jan 2015 #23
Hi,
I am also in communication with a good company in wroclaw and would be interested to know how your bargain ended up? Did you get 40,000 euro all or some other allowance in addition? How many years post PhD experience do you have?


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