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Does it make sense to move from the UK to Wroclaw for this salary?

AdamZhou 1 | 8
16 Oct 2009 #31

What does your role play in the IT company customer support? Is the job something like help desk on the telephone? IBM also has such kind of business, quite boring...

It is said that the payment for such kind of job in Krakow is 3000~4000PLN per month at the begining.
cjj - | 281
20 Oct 2009 #32
Kiltmaker - Gdansk is out of the question, I guess?
4500/month gross is not a great salary for IT -- not for an IT developer, certainly. I have guys earning more than that, without more than 5 years' experience. However, from what I have noticed here, the power of a CV is in education and one's "guru-ness". All the favoured skills in the West (being able to work in a team, being proactive, being blah blah blah) are only thought about after a buzz-word paper sort. The move from "programmer" to "software engineer" hasn't quite happened - or at least not widely-spread enough to affect the market.

My thoughts only - I'm currently reading through CVs trying to deduce the softskills of the applicants :)
If I were you, I would be careful. Sure, you can live on 4,5K - but do you want that type of life? Unless you were really sure that things would improve it's a big risk to take. I moved from a high salary in the west to a lower one here -- it's not a pleasant move. I lived on peanuts at University but I don't want to have to do that any more - and not with 2 kids.

OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20
21 Oct 2009 #33
Thanks, CJJ.

I'd consider any big city in Poland (Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, Poznan, Gdansk, Lodz) for relocation.

But so far I got 2 job offer from there - 1 from Krakow (I rejected because of a really low salary), and 1 from Wroclaw (we are discussing now. Very good American company to work for + good benefits packagae, the question is the salary)...

In my CV I do not focus on "soft skills", rather than on work done and projects delivered.

And I'm fine to move from Application Development in a bank to Customer Service in IT company, the question is how I'll be compensated...
tomera 1 | 4
22 Oct 2009 #34
Cjj and Kiltmaker,

I'm considering relocating to Wroclaw. In case, I would work on standardization for a big company telco. Considering I have a few years of experience in the research field related with the standards, what is, in your opinion, I salary (net) I can ask? Thank-you!
cjj - | 281
22 Oct 2009 #35
Tomera - no real idea, to be honest.
I've seen CVs this week from people with at most a couple of years experience (programming) and they're asking 4.5K - 5K gross.

However, don't add on more years experience and expect more money - it doesn't work that way unless you've turned into a real SME (and can prove it).
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20
4 Nov 2009 #36
The summary is:
- Global IT Company.
- Nice people and great work environment.
- Job title is Foreign Customer Service (not IT/development/programming).
- Good benefits package.
- Salary 4.5k PLN brutto.
gumishu 11 | 5,222
4 Nov 2009 #37
4.5k brutto is not much money especially when you need to rent an appartment in Wrocław
still if the benefits include good health insurance (you don't want to wait to see a doctor) and can add some good ammount of money based on your reputation among customers up your salary maybe it is worth it - you should try learning more about the benefits or ask here if anybody knows what they can look like (I have no idea)
jwojcie 2 | 763
4 Nov 2009 #38
The summary

- first job -> ok
- temporary job/position -> ok
- second or long term job/position -> not ok :-)
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20
19 Nov 2009 #39
Hi, guys.

The latest update:

I was able to negotiate the salary to 7500 PLN Brutto, that is 5000 PLN NET.
It's much higher than initially offered, but is it still enough for a couple with a baby?

scottie1113 7 | 898
19 Nov 2009 #40
7500 brutto less 18% tax is 6150 nett. As an English teacher in my third year here, I take home about 4000zl a month, including private lessons. I have a nice flat in the Old Town for which I pay 1200 a month and rent a room to a student for 500. I eat well because both of us cook and we usually eat at home, but on my salary I can go to restaurants, cinemas, etc occasionally. I spend too much money at my favorite pub but that's because it's like my living room and I meet my friends there. That's my choice.

Except for rent, I don't think Poland is inexpensive. I'm from the US. Let's say I made the same amount per month in US dollars. Then I'd think Poland was cheap, but since I'm paid in zlotys I have to think in terms of how long it takes me to earn the price of a beer or anything else. Still, I earn more than most of my Polish friends. I think you'll be fine on that salary. My Polish friends would think you're rich.

Not to rain on your parade, but I doubt that you'll be fluent after a year, especially if you'll use English at work. It probably will take a little longer and it'll require a lot of hard work on your part, but you can do it if you're really determined.

Good luck. Enjoy the experience.
jwojcie 2 | 763
19 Nov 2009 #41
According to my knowledge, they don't rip you off this time. So from that point of view it is reasonable salary considering Wroclaw IT average.

Is this enough for couple with a baby is another question. It is personal thing :-)
I think you will do fine. But till your wife finds a job, and taking into consideration rents in Wroclaw probably not much will be left.
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20
20 Nov 2009 #42

According to my (limited) knowledge of Polsih taxation system, it is not just 18% Income Tax, but also 10% ZUS? Is it correct understanding?
DavidT - | 11
20 Nov 2009 #43
He said he would be moving with his partner + baby, do you really think he will be able to give out less than 1000zl/month for food???

As I started reading through this your estimate was suprising to me also. At the time I didn't know he was moving with partner & baby - and he hadn't said this when you posted this!

Some others have said it also, but there can be more than just the pay packet to consider. I left good money in Manchester (though Australian myself) to come here and not regretted it for a sec. Partner is Polish, and her family and friends have made me feel so welcome - more so than most ever did in the UK.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,267
20 Nov 2009 #44
According to my (limited) knowledge of Polsih taxation system, it is not just 18% Income Tax, but also 10% ZUS? Is it correct understanding?

No, not quite correct - more like 20%. I don't have the exact numbers to hand, but it's around that figure.
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20
20 Nov 2009 #45

20% for both Tax+ZUS? OR for ZUS only?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,267
20 Nov 2009 #46
ZUS only, Tax is another 18% after ZUS has been taken away. But it can vary - the tax code here is a mess and riddled with exceptions and can often depend on so many things - it's really impossible to give a straightforward answer.

But there's a calculator here which gives an idea -

This is why anyone moving to Poland should negotiate net, not brutto salaries.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Nov 2009 #47
Fine in theory delph but they often maneuver little on the wage rate. I had to push hard to get mine hiked up to a more respectable level.

The scant consolation for having to pay 839PLN in your third year is that more is taken off through the koszty uzyskany rozchodów or sth like that. Instead of paying 1/7 of my income in tax, I pay 1/9. So, let's say I earn 4200PLN, that's 600PLN down to 466PLN. It's always sth to claw back.

ZUS is fixed for a certain period and you can access that figure in a publication (small newspaper) called Informator. It's usually the same for at least 3 months before rising in accordance with inflation. You have to pay that sum, regardless of your earnings. It doesn't make sense to talk of ZUS in terms of percentages unless you have a fixed monthly salary. For me, the number of classes I teach determines the percentage of my income that goes to ZUS. ZUS is the constant and my classes are the variable.

You can't do flat rate conversions/calculations as it just doesn't work that way. It's not exactly 18% either, I can tell you that for a fact. Throw in some invoices and it will lower your tax. In the first two years, I found it to be just over 14% but now is more like 11%. Tax I mean.
jwojcie 2 | 763
20 Nov 2009 #48
Guys, I think there is no point in discussing here all aspects of polish tax system...
If he gets permanent job with "umowa o pracę" then delphiandomine site is correct, 7500 gross = 5292.29 net, there is no hidden tax involved...
It would be hard to get any tax reliefs on "umowa o pracę" so it shouldn't be taking into consideration in relocation decision.
26 Jan 2010 #49
I earn 15900 brutto per month in poland and I still think that it is very less for me to live a rich life as I would normally dream of.
easybabe - | 14
18 Feb 2010 #50
this is very good salary

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