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Job consideration in Warsaw - what would be my expenses in case I move here?


Karma
3 Dec 2014 #1
I have an opportunity to work with one of the e-commerce company in Warsaw. The pay is low though ~3,000 PLN netto. The company claims to increase the salary post the probation, plus incentives (but I am not very hopeful of the same). I am earning the approximate same amount in India (in a different industry altogether); however, I am just giving it a thought to gain international exposure. This job is almost confirmed for me and all I need to say is YES.

Secondly, I am in talks with another employer in Poland which will offer me a salary of about 5,000 PLN (netto). I am more serious about this opportunity as it is into similar industry I have an experience of over 3 years. The job is not confirmed yet, but I am hopeful. I have to take a risk, of-course, of choosing one option from above.

I would like to know what would be my expenses in case I move to Warsaw. I am single, non-vegetarian (except beef), drinks occasionally and love to socialize. I do not believe in high-spending and prefer to become a frugal spender. I would prefer to rent an apartment 2-3 months down the line (would probably rent a room initially to know the area and find the best option).

Your opinions/suggestions are welcomed.

Pozdrawiam.
K

P.S. Poland has always been a center of attraction for me because of my interest in world history.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
3 Dec 2014 #2
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Delhi are 44.34% lower than in Warsaw, so if you earn 3000PLN in India, then in Warsaw your salary will be this much less worth. Is it worth to come from warm India into cold Warsaw and work for nearly half? I don't think so.

numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Poland&city1=Warsaw&country2=India&city2=Delhi
DominicB - | 2,678
3 Dec 2014 #3
The pay is low though ~3,000 PLN netto.

That is far too low to justify moving to Poland for. If you take your airfare and visa fees into account, you may even end up in the red after a year. So this is not an option.

about 5,000 PLN (netto)

That would be about the bare minimum that you should be offered to move to Poland. However, as Monitor points out, you would be making about the same or even a little less in terms of purchasing power, especially considering it's in Warsaw, the most expensive city in Poland, so it's hardly tempting. I wouldn't consider this a serious option either.

My advice would be to continue working in India, build up your qualifications, and then try finding better paid work in a wealthier country. You will not be able to do that in Poland.

P.S. Poland has always been a center of attraction for me because of my interest in world history.

Poland is attractive only if you have the cash to enjoy what it has to offer. Otherwise, it is not so attractive, especially during the winter. Although wages are low, the cost of living is rather high, and the quality of life is rather low, especially for foreigners from warmer climes.
OP Karma
4 Dec 2014 #4
Monitor,

I totally understand your point. 3,000 PLN isn't a good option, that's why I have decided not to pursue it.
I am more interested in knowing the average monthly cost one can incur if living an average life in Warsaw.

Dominic,
Finding job in wealthier nation in my industry isn't possible in near scenario, as we are doing their work only by sitting in less expensive countries. The main aspect I am looking after in this job is the exposure I will get, which will hep me grow on professional front. Right now, I am more like a back-end support for the work who sits in front of a computer all day (and sometimes night). The job at 5,000 PLN is more front-end which would also require travel to assist clients and enhance business for my Polish employer (which I do not see happening in my current profession, say for atleast 10 years). Further, I might get an opportunity to start a new business process altogether in the company. I am looking it more in terms of a professional front rather than monetary front. I understand I might not save much as I expect right now, but I guess it is worth to build connections and open a way forward. This is the reason I want to know what I would be able to save at the end of every month.

As per some forum inputs, I have come across the following break-up of my monthly expenses.

Studio Apartment - 1600 PLN
or a room - 1000 PLN
Utlities - 150-200
Food - 500 (I cook on my own and have a little diet)
Transport - 110 (I plan to use a bicycle for travel though)
Mobile Phone and Broadband - 150
Misc 250

Total ~2300 - 2800 per month

yet a saving of about 2000 PLN per month (and a return flight costs like 1,800 PLN)

Your inputs are welcomed.

Thanks,
K
DominicB - | 2,678
4 Dec 2014 #5
Food - 500

Groceries and household supplies will cost you at least double that, and maybe even a lot more if you eat out more than once in a blue moon. If your job requires frequent traveling, you will be eating out a lot in places where you do not know the cheapest places to eat. Depending on how often that happens, you're combined grocery and household supply spending, together with other travel-related expenses, can well be more than 2000 PLN a month.

Misc 250

You are going to hate life if this is all you are budgeting for entertainment, travel and assorted diversion. Are you some type of masochistic ascetic, a glutton for punishment? The only hobby or pastime that you will be able to afford with that budget is masturbation.

The main aspect I am looking after in this job is the exposure I will get, which will hep me grow on professional front.

Far more useful than any exposure you may get in Poland are diplomas and certificates that you can earn in India.

This is the reason I want to know what I would be able to save at the end of every month.

yet a saving of about 2000 PLN per month

2000 PLN a month? Are you kidding? That just ain't going to happen even if you are masochist ascetic. 0 to 500 PLN is more like it, 1000 max, with a lot of luck, and that only in the best couple of months out of the year. What happens if you get sick? Even a minor illness or dental problems can wipe out your entire savings really quick.

Sorry, I just don't think it would be to your advantage to take this job, as far better options exist elsewhere, including India. Maybe if you were a desperate unemployed recent grad with no experience, but not at your stage in your career. Explore your options for improving your qualifications in India, and get to work earning diplomas and certificates that you can sell in richer countries. Your experience in Poland will probably mean little on the global job market.
Michał
4 Dec 2014 #6
Hi,

I guess both countries have their own plus points. Poland can be extremely cold in Winters, similarly India burns in Summers. You get cheaper food and stuff in India, whereas you get better lifestyle in Poland/Europe. India is your home country (an added comfort if you stay there), while Poland can be a new learning curve for you. You can either chose comfort or take a risk.

Poland is one of the fastest growing European economy, and people are welcomed here to work and make Poles learn new things.

Here is the comparison of the two nations in case you are interested in knowing what a country can offer you apart from just money (blah blah)

ifitweremyhome.com/compare/IN/PL

In a nut shell, it all depends upon you. And, it will also depends upon your plans short-term or long-term.
DominicB - | 2,678
4 Dec 2014 #7
India is your home country (an added comfort if you stay there)

This seems to be the factor that the OP is not taking into account. Home court advantage is worth a lot, especially in terms of beefing up one's qualifications.
OP Karma
4 Dec 2014 #8
Dominic.

So even 5000 netto isn't enough to live in Warsaw when the average salary in the city is 2,713 PLN. I guess people living in Warsaw are in huge debt.

Health will be covered as per the labour regulations as far as the employee contract is involved. Also, i would be getting extra funds (per-diem) in case I have to travel (not from my pocket of-course), most of which would be in neighboring countries

Regarding food, I have done some research in the forum where many people say about 600 PLN is good enough if you want to cook on your own (though you suggested it to be 1000 with a further statement that one can cut cost by cooking at home). polishforums.com/work-43/moving-poland-work-company-warsaw-lodz-average-expense-68950/

Misc is just a miscellaneous expenses (movie/theater/beer from stores) and not the hard-core entertainment. Over the top expenses depends upon how much I want to spend on entertainment from my monthly savings. In my case entertainment/hobby, it could be biking, joining a music group (drums/guitar), camping, leisure travel (once in a quarter/6-months) etc. Of-course, If I do party every day/weekend, I won't be able to save a penny (be it India or Poland).

No doubt adding certifications or diplomas would help in my career, but trust me there is a huge queue in front of every good college in India. Certifications from a normal college/university doesn't add value but waste your time, energy and money. Working with Fortune 500 customers (in their business process) would be more valuable than an average diploma.

K.
Harry
4 Dec 2014 #9
Studio Apartment - 1600 PLN

Budget more like 2000 for something livable in a place where you have a fighting chance of not getting stabbed.

Transport - 110 (I plan to use a bicycle for travel though)

A monthly tram ticket and a couple of shortish taxi journeys per month will cost more than that.

Food - 500 (I cook on my own and have a little diet)

I really hope you like cabbage and hate both meat and dairy produce.
I'm also seeing no budget for personal care products or household cleaning products, please tell me that's an oversight.
Also, do you plan to wear clothes? You'll need a winter jacket at least every third winter and the same with boots. Those are 600zl a throw, so 400zl per year (more like 600 really), i.e. 30zl per month.

And do you plan to cut your own hair?

Health will be covered as per the labour regulations as far as the employee contract is involved.

Good luck using the state system without speaking fluent Polish. And even if you do, there's a very good reason a lot of people in Warsaw pay for private medical care.

Misc 250

There are lots of places here where 250zl gets you a round of drinks and maybe a tip for the barman.

the average salary in the city is 2,713 PLN. I guess people living in Warsaw are in huge debt.

Very few of those people live alone. And they all have support networks which you completely lack (you can't go home at the weekend and come back with your bags stuffed full of jars of food to get you through the week).
Monitor 14 | 1,820
4 Dec 2014 #10
@Karma: Quoted by you costs of living in Warsaw are correct, but if you live frugally as average Pole does. I mean always choosing the cheapest shops, restaurants, pubs etc. People here are used to do that because of necessity, but westerners writing in this forum don't think it's something normal ;)
DominicB - | 2,678
5 Dec 2014 #11
Exactly. A foreigner who doesn't know the language, the country, the city and the culture cannot live as cheaply as a native Pole. And without knowing the language, its going to take a long time to learn the ropes by hit or miss trial and error. Losing his home court advantage is going to cost him.

Karma, on 5000 PLN in Warsaw, expect to live like a monk, and save nothing, and you won't be disappointed. All it takes is one dental abscess or two weeks in bed with the flu to wreck your budget for many months.

But if you're a glutton for punishment and a big fan of potatoes and cabbage, go ahead and give it a try. My bet is on you being back in India by Easter, so you had better make sure the job you have now will be waiting for you when you get back. If not, you're screwed.


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