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Companies and pay for a Native English Teacher in Warsaw?


delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Oct 2015 #31
No Dominic, you haven't got a clue. For a start, the UK is made up of four countries with four different educational systems - there is no single Ministry of Education that covers the UK because education is a devolved matter.

Let's talk about England, because that's where the OP is from. 21% of schools in November 2014 were Academies or Free Schools - and they can pay whatever they want. Those that are still directly maintained also have considerable discretion - the only thing is that they're obliged to follow the national pay scale. But how someone fits into that pay scale depends very much on the school and their budget. It's a simplification, but there are essentially six "bands" on the main teaching pay scale (there's also an upper pay scale, but let's not go there). It ranges from M1 to M6. M1 is for newly qualified teachers, and so on.

Where you fit into the band when you begin very much depends on the circumstances. They can offer anything they want, with the only clause being that they have to pay according to the scale. But they don't have to recognise experience or in fact anything at all - for instance, primary teachers find it very tough to get M5/M6 recognised in many areas. They might be offered M3 or M4 - this is not unusual at all. But a maths teacher might go from M1 to M3 because schools find it incredibly hard to recruit and retain such teachers - they might even go straight in at M2 or even M3 if the school is desperate. But this decision is made by the headteacher - there is no standard formula for these things, except the school should have a pay policy that details how such decisions can be made.

In other words, your claim that there's an "extremely detailed pointing formula" is utterly false. The only thing that's handed down is that the amounts for each level are set centrally. The school itself is free to decide what to offer and how to assess where someone should be on the pay scale.

So - how this relates to our OP is very simple. Her experience may or may not be recognised, depending on the school, depending on their needs and depending on the will of the headteacher. It is absolutely false to say that they won't recognise private language schools - they may well do, especially if she applies for a post where there are significant numbers of children learning English. For what it's worth, a friend's experience in Poland led him to being hired at M2 rather than M1.

Oh, and Dominic? Your experience of Polish schools must be very limited, because school directors are perfectly able to offer higher salaries to teachers if they wish. The only thing they must do is pay teachers a minimum amount depending on their position in the work path.
DominicB - | 2,709
2 Oct 2015 #32
You're mixing up two completely unrelated things: the decision to hire, and the decision how much to pay. The rules for the former are extremely strict and not within the discretion of the headteacher. Any decision they make must be defensible to the Ministry of Education, the EU and the courts of law, and the reasons for that decision must be recorded in great detail in accordance with the policies of the Ministry, the EU, international treaties and local law.

The decision on how much to pay does lay somewhat within the discretion of the individual school, as you point out, but even then, they are well aware that they may have to defend in court any egregious behavior such as discrimination or favoritism. They are going to have their legal ducks in a row, too.

Nothing you wrote contradicts what I wrote.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Oct 2015 #33
Dominic, did you really live in Poland? That sort of comment strikes me as being incredibly naive at best.

The general rule is that schools in Poland must obey the rules set by the local educational authority, set at a provincial level with additional local representatives. However, these rules are not set in stone, and I can tell you about countless cases where the rules have been bent with official approval. As for the actual decision - if you think that a) personal connections and b) status on the work path don't have a huge influence, you must be living in a different planet to the rest of us.

If you're talking about the UK, then any half competent hiring manager will tell you exactly how to hire the person you want rather than the best qualified candidate. It's very simple in teaching - the headteacher in question merely has to nitpick a demonstration lesson to bits and he/she can issue a negative decision.

Oh Dominic... if you're talking about the UK - it's a piece of cake to manipulate. Teaching is so subjective that an "independent" observation conducted by a head of department can easily be negative if the headteacher wishes - no HoD is going to go against their HT's wishes if they want to keep their job and keep getting their salary increased - therefore the person doing the lesson observation is never, ever going to contradict their HT's wish. As long as the paperwork is in order, you can do whatever the hell you want...

In Poland - you really are living in dreamland if you think that there are such controls.

Anyway, to the OP - the answer is simple.

You should be able to pick up work in Warsaw pretty easily. In the beginning, it might not be perfect (for example, teaching music to nursery kids), but it will do the job. You can command pretty decent money for it, too, as you'll be a novelty.

The experience may or may not be transferable, but it would be wise to try and pick up work in schools that are accredited by the Polish Ministry of Education. That means all public schools and most (but not all) private schools. That way, you'll have a chance of getting that experience recognised back home.
DominicB - | 2,709
2 Oct 2015 #34
.... and learn to say "Would you like fries with that, sir?" You're going to be saying that a lot.
Harry
2 Oct 2015 #35
No, Dominic, she isn't. As anybody who has even a vague clue about the British education system and private/state primary/middle/high schools in Poland will tell her. Could you remind us how long you spend studying/working in the British education system and private/state primary/middle/high schools in Poland? The fact that you come out with things such as "there is no such thing as a PGCE certificate", "NQTs are dime a dozen [in Poland]" and "[British schools] have to rigorously apply the extremely detailed pointing formula handed down by the Ministry of Education" suggests that your knowledge of them is at best limited.

Yes, we know that you think anybody who doesn't stop what they are doing and goes back to university to study financial mathematics, financial engineering, econometrics or actuarial sciences is on a one-way track to loserville and a complete moron; however, it is possible to have a nice life without maths. Poland is far from all doom and gloom; you have left, but some of us very much like it here.
mafketis 34 | 11,649
2 Oct 2015 #36
The reality is that she made some truly ghastly educational choices.

Somebody's been reading Captain Capitalism..... (I do too sometimes).
DominicB - | 2,709
2 Oct 2015 #37
I'm a socialist, and a rather ascetic Buddhist. Probably the least materialistic person you can come across. So much for assumptions.
daskapital
2 Oct 2015 #38
Hahaha- good one D ;-)

Guys please stay on topic.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Oct 2015 #39
.... and learn to say "Would you like fries with that, sir?" You're going to be saying that a lot.

Nice cop out Dominic, but you seem to have ignored the fact that an English-qualified teacher with the right to teach drama and the ability to teach music will always be in demand here. I've never even seen a CV from someone qualified in the performing arts - and applicants with any PGCE are few and far between. It might not be top-tier money, but it will still be decent money by Warsaw standards.
DominicB - | 2,709
2 Oct 2015 #40
I'm sure she will thank you when she is 57 and finally lands a job in a school in England- cleaning toilets.
Harry
2 Oct 2015 #41
It might not be top-tier money, but it will still be decent money by Warsaw standards.

The good international schools here pay more than UK schools pay but the cost of living here is lower than the UK average and a lot lower than cities such as London, Bristol, Southampton, etc.

I'm sure she will thank you when she is 57 and finally lands a job in a school in England- cleaning toilets.

The question about how long you spent studying/working in the British education system and private/state primary/middle/high schools in Poland is still unanswered.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
2 Oct 2015 #42
I'm sure she will thank you when she is 57 and finally lands a job in a school in England- cleaning toilets.

Dominic, instead of posting insulting things, why don't you tell us how much experience you have (directly, not anecdotally) with the Polish and UK educational systems? I'm not talking about tutoring people from such schools.

The good international schools here pay more than UK schools pay but the cost of living here is lower than the UK average and a lot lower than cities such as London, Bristol, Southampton, etc.

I think it's worth being fair and saying that the elite schools might not take her - but there are endless second-tier schools that would bite her hand off.
mafketis 34 | 11,649
2 Oct 2015 #43
- but there are endless second-tier schools that would bite her hand off.

And if she can manage to learn Polish to a reasonable degree (not needing everything translated for her) and has an open mind in learning how the system works she'll do fine.
maltinka 1 | 14
17 Feb 2018 #44
The problem there is that these schools are flooded with applicants and are very selective about whom they hire

what kind of schools are these? could you name a few or tell me how i might go about finding these places? Thank you! :)
also is it still the same regarding hiring only happening at the start of the school year? ideal i want to work with primary school children but i was hoping to go to Poland (katowice specifically) in about Dec/Jan as i had read somewhere that Jan was also a good time....here the most hiring also coincides with the start of the school year but there are loads of jobs available all year round. but......do i need to come ot poland for sept? i can change my plans but only would if its absolutely necessary. I am celta cert/native english/bilingual polish /canadian+polish passport/ 5 years teaching experience mostly children age 5 - 12 (which remains my preference) any thoughts you have would be welcomed! cheers!
jon357 70 | 19,649
17 Feb 2018 #45
...do i need to come ot poland for sept?

No, although it helps obviously, since that's when most of the hiring is done - in fact it starts before then. If you come in the winter you will probably still get work, however it's be freelance bits & bobs at first, unless you strike it lucky and contact an employer just as one of their teachers leaves mid year or they get some extra work (which mid-year tends to be adult learners).
maltinka 1 | 14
18 Feb 2018 #46
thanks jon357, i sort of asked this again in the other thread before seeing you already answered - sorry, still learning my way around this forum site. so ideal time to arrive....beginning of august..?


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