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Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish in the US?


Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
24 Jan 2012 #211
Listen to your heart, there is Polska there. You know it for certain.

i know ...

But I have seen indications of this love/ hate and it does bother me that I would be judged before I testify.

Im feeling under the weather , I have a cough that is just lingering..
Sasha 2 | 1,083
24 Jan 2012 #212
Does that go only for Poles? What about people that leave China? Russia? Greece? Ireland? Vietnam?

It depends. They may not be traitors but they are definitely not patriots if they're leaving their homeland for a better life elsewhere. Is it a bad thing? I don't know. Perhaps. If it was for the safety of my family I would try to leave Russia immediately (which I honestly speaking would love to do).

I believe that living in a country different from the one of birth changes one's way of thinking. Moreover reading foreign literature in its original language may change one's turn of mind. One day you wake up and realize that you are actually far ahead (or probably behind) your (ex-)fellow countrymen. Can you consider yourself be yet one of them? Yes, technically you can but given that you are going to be a minority with your turn of mind in your homeland and they will still be a majority it doesn't make much sense.

A couple of years in total spent in the US changed my turn of mind drastically. Another five or ten could erase the most of russianness in me. It certainly depends on a person with his ability and will to integrate but I think many people who live abroad for a long time can easily put a prefix "plastic" before their original nationalities. Those who cannot integrate usually come back..
Harry
24 Jan 2012 #213
You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport.

If we go with that definition, wouldn't it depend on which you acquired first and what you swore to do when you acquired your second passport?

Although, if you acquired your Polish passport second and on the basis of naturalisation, the question is moot with regard to the subject of this thread, as you would have to speak Polish in order to naturalise.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
24 Jan 2012 #214
You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship, it depends on what passport I travel at the time.

It depends a bit more on whether you are part of the nation culturally and linguistically rather than just on paper.
polaus
25 Jan 2012 #215
@ Harry...I do speak Polish, I eat bigos, drink Warka etc etc (yes you can get this at the Polish Club in Brisbane thank God for that) not having a go at you just having a joke. However the point is when you have citizenship of the country you can claim yourself to be a national of that country. For example here in Australia during the citizenship ceremony they say congratulations you're Australian... end of story. It is the law not just here in Australia but in Poland, and other countries as well and by law you have the right to call yourself one of that country e.g. Polish, Australian, American, English etc etc once granted citizenship. I understand where you might be coming from your Polish if is it in your blood yes it is, and this is proven even through the old San Sanguinis law (the old latin phrase for right of blood) where under Polish law and other countries they still uphold this. You must prove that you have Polish blood in your veins to gain Polish citizenship (and other European countries have this law) irrespective of where you are born. So again even through this your Polish.

Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood.
Harry
25 Jan 2012 #216
" Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood."

Warka? Really? Come to Poland and have some decent regional beer, there's stuff that knocks Warka into a cocked hat!

As for Polish blood, about 30 proof, on my experience.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
25 Jan 2012 #217
there's stuff that knocks Warka into a cocked hat!

wwwwwwwwwhat?

and yeah, Warka is pi$$ water.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
25 Jan 2012 #218
polaus

I'm interested in how you would respond to post #182
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
25 Jan 2012 #219
You're Polish if you maintain Polish Citizenship, and have a passport. I have both Australian and Polish citizenship

That's probably the best answer. If you have Polish citizenship by birth or have acquired it by having Polish ancestry obviously you want be remain or be seen as Polish.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
25 Jan 2012 #220
If you have Polish citizenship by birth or have acquired it by having Polish ancestry obviously you want be remain or be seen as Polish.

In theory no one can deprive you of a right to be seen as Polish. Another question is how would you feel about the howling difference between you and those Poles (not necessarily ethnic ones) who have lived all their lives in Poland.

In my mind one's citizenship may have nothing to do with one's national identification. In Russia the best backup for the said is the Chechens brought up in Chechnya (formally Russia).
andrewwright 8 | 65
25 Jan 2012 #221
Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish?

YES
Dont ask ? i wont tell lies,
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
26 Jan 2012 #222
Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish?

No. You can be Polish-ish, but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you.
polaus
26 Jan 2012 #223
@ Harry & Fizzywickets...I just use Warka as an example...pun taken. Again no offence, I have drunken the regional beers bla bla, and for the record I was born in Krakow.

Anyway I have said my piece (which is my last remark for this topic), and that is my opinion about what defines being Polish etc etc.
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
26 Jan 2012 #224
I think it's pretty difficult to get into the "mindset" of a culture without speaking the language from which it was derived. The languages we speak alter our perception of the world to quite a heavy degree. The grammar structure can alter our perception of time, alter out logical thought patterns, and genders can alter how we see the objects around us.

There are two things that make a culture, the obvious "learned" culture of traditions, which are handed down from your mother, father or both. This however can become diluted, when new cultures and traditions are absorbed, especially when living in a foreign country.

There is also less obvious subconscious nuances of language, which allow greater insight into how a "nation" thinks, and changes your perception of the world without you ever know it has done so. This kind of thing can't be learnt or handed down in the same way that traditions are.

In my opinion it's pretty hard to be "Proper Polish" without speaking the language, in the same way you can't be "Proper English" without speaking the language. You could imitate the traditions, but it would never really give you a truthful insight into how a nation thinks.

Here's an article which may be of interest.

buber.net/Basque/?p=68
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
28 Jan 2012 #225
but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you.

so the Polish that immigrated to Britain who are working and making a living there are they now considered British?
cause it seems like theres alot of people who still refer to them as polish stealing their jobs, not British stealing their jobs.

even when they decide to live and become British, there is alot of anger there about jobs, but if they learn the language of
english and become a citizen then they are British.

Anyway when I eat kielbasa, smalec, and drink Warka lol I beat myself at my chest and say to myself I am proud to Polish...it is in your blood.

lol,,, cough is gone and this made me laugh.. good post.
modafinil - | 418
28 Jan 2012 #226
so the Polish that immigrated to Britain who are working and making a living there are they now considered British?

Poland was never part of the British Empire or commonwealth. Their children may become British if they are born here but they are well known for coming here and leaving their children behind in Poland, there's more for the pound in child benefits that way. Also they come here to have a child (or an abortion) on the house, and then go back to Poland.

Only peeps complaining are uneducated ones with a rudimentary skill set.
GabiDaHun 2 | 152
28 Jan 2012 #227
Poland was never part of the British Empire or commonwealth.

No, but id did provide us with an entire fleet of Pilots to the UK war effort in WW2. Many of them stayed in the UK but still have relatives in Poland. I think we at least owe these people a little something, don't you?
modafinil - | 418
28 Jan 2012 #228
The ones who permanently settled are of course British. Not a case of owing as such, as they contributed, heartily. I wouldn't see a problem even if the fighters that defended Britain that didn't settle here received some pensionable benefits in honour.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
29 Jan 2012 #229
Statement:

No. You can be Polish-ish, but not the real McCoy if Poles have to learn a foreign language in order to speak with you.

Response:

so the polish that immigrated to britian who are working and making a living there are they now considered British?

Question:
WTF?
Krzisztof
30 Mar 2012 #230
Hi Ime from england if one of your Parents is Polish and hasnt lost their citizen ship then the children and grand children are considered Polish.

to be non Polish from Polish stock is imposible because Polish is based on blood line not what you speak or place of Birth It is a Slav Tribe .

You may through some time cease to feel Polish but if you havnt relinquished formal your Polish citizen ship then you are still Polish.even if all your granparents bar one are not Polish.

Rights to Polish citizen ship are more complicated .and even four generations on you may still be classed as Polish. and have rights to live in Poland if you can prove the blood line.
Atch 17 | 3,067
28 Jun 2017 #231
moved from

I'm fascinated at how the children of Polish parents in America anyway, I don't know about elsewhere, seem to grow up speaking such imperfect Polish. Is it because Polish grammar is so difficult? Mr Atch says that children make a lot lof errors and that when he was a kid they were taught in school the correct constructions. He remembers various question and answer forms they learned by rote which were supposed to help them to get the noun cases correct and also writing out lists of the plural forms of various nouns.
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,032
28 Jun 2017 #232
You're Polish ONLY if you were born to Polish parents and only when they're both Polish.

You are not Polish if only one of your parents was Polish (you're of mixed ethnicity in this case) and you can't become Polish simply because of gaining citizenship.
johnny reb 21 | 3,989
28 Jun 2017 #233
See Notty............ WE don't see it that way here in the U.S.A.
Those are your rules, not ours.
I really do hate to throw ants on your almighty parade but if our fathers had Polish parents then WE consider ourselves Polish !
That's how it works in America even if you disagree there in Poland.
You have your homemade rules in Poland and WE have our homemade rules here in America.
And I will tell you that I am much more Polish then any of the British ex-pats living in Poland ever thought of being.
Now if you want to continue with your nonsense, call my Polish grandmother and tell her that her grandson is not Polish.
She will straighten you out real quick. lol
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,032
28 Jun 2017 #234
WE don't see it that way here in the U.S.A.

Of course you dont. The only ethnic Americans are Indians so you have to bend definitions to actually have a country you could claim is your motherland. You arent ethnic American. You're of mixed ethnicity. Btw. Such definition bending is typical to leftists which you claim to despise.
johnny reb 21 | 3,989
28 Jun 2017 #235
The only ethnic Americans are Indians

No one is debating that.
What we are debating is that in Poland you don't consider me being Polish and I am telling you that here in America that I am considered Polish.

And that is just how it works in America.
Btw. Just think Notty, you could be a shirttail relative of mine. :-)
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,032
28 Jun 2017 #236
I am considered Polish

Well. To Poles you aren't and who you are to Americans is irrelevant to ethnicity which is based on science.
Ironside 49 | 10,108
28 Jun 2017 #237
You are not Polish if only one of your parents was Polish (you're of mixed ethnicity in this case) and you can't become Polish simply because of gaining citizenship.

BS, that is a German or Germanic point of view not really Polish. If someone really believe to be Polish and knows Polish culture than he/she is as much a Polish or even better than someone who was born and raised in Poland. Where there are plenty of people talking in Polish but expressing their soviet culture and soviet views.

WE don't see it that way here in the U.S.A.

Sure, but in the U.S. people talk about their origin their roots. Generally they don't know much about Poland or a Polish culture and are American through and through. Not saying that you're not Polish but you're Polish American way.

There are some exceptions...
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,032
28 Jun 2017 #238
BS, that is a German or Germanic point of view not really Polish. If someone really believe to be Polish and knows Polish culture than he/she is as much a Polish

Ask an anthropologist you tool. Besides I didn't hear anything on this level of idiocy in a long time. "You're Polish if you think that about yourself....BUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

Ladies and gentlemen.

If someone really believe to be Polish ...

According to this lunatic ethnicity is a matter of belief... muahahhahahah
Atch 17 | 3,067
28 Jun 2017 #239
Well now I know you live in the 1950s but in the modern world ethnicity is determined by the culture with which you identify, not by your DNA. And a very detailed survey of Poles (not a poll, a survey) revealed that 60% of a well selected sample group felt that Polish nationality was not what made one Polish but that speaking the language and embracing the culture were the essential elements, particularly language.
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,032
28 Jun 2017 #240
not by your DNA

BS. Ethnicity is about DNA. It will always be about DNA.

And surveys and people opinions DONT CHANGE FACTS.

Additionally people that try to change the definition of ethnicity are the people who lack their ethnic identity because of being mixed.

I don't mind people thinking and believing in who they are but ethnicity isn't something you can pick from.


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