Can you BE Polish without SPEAKING Polish in the US?

I've always though Native Americans should refuse to acknowledge the border exists.


I don't see why.For the individual though, I'm sure it must be thrilling to find there history twined with other cultures.


That sound's like Marxism. But anyway,Polish Americans, the way they develop, is not the correct course of what being Polish is, they are blossoming differently. To use the British commonwealth in relation to being English; It was only when Brits abroad returned with new cultural elements did other ways of life synthesise into Englishness.

A republic in spirit? Please - give me some of what you're drinking!

Go away and learn about Batory and Sobieski before making such comments.


Poland, liberal? Again - I really need some of what you are drinking. Please.


How do you explain the fact that the vast majority of Polonia will not leave rich America for poor Poland, then?

Sorry pal, but the Polonia exist solely because of human greed and desire.

Yep, of course unlike the Jews living in Poland before WW2, they were Polish and If you don't agree, you are antisemitic, right ? :))

Polishness need not hinge on language or geography or a surname or even food choice. It is a state of mind. You are Polish (of Bolivian or Basque or whatever) if you feel yourself to be. I have known PolAms who speak excellent Polish but felt little affinity with their Polish ancestral heritage and aspired to total WASP-ificaiton, the quicker the better. They attribtued their good Polish to family pressure (it was spoken at home)or in some cases business necessity (an undertaker, druggist, dentist, insurance or estate agent in a Polish neighbourhood).

Personal comment removed

Grzegorz, Europeans' historical sense of what we Anglo-Saxon's aka Americans term "nationality" is vastly different, I've found. In the US, anyone born to foreign-born parents on US soil is considered "American", despite their PARENT'S nationality. In the US, "Jew" is still only a religious denomination, not an ethnic group or "separate" nation!

Poles, much as Germans, French and practically every other country in the world, regard nationality as linked with race. "Jew" is NOT considered just a creed in, say, Russia, but historically, a separate and distinct people.

Therefore, before condemning a European national for not automatically recognizing Jews the same way WE Americans have been taught to, remember that the European world view across the board has been informed by a very different historical realty from our own.

No it isn't.

Aren't you the high-brow one?


Are you attributing the Polonia's weird feelings on Poland to substance abuse?

Certainly makes sense.

Oh, well, that's an easy one.


Are you singling out just Poles when you say this or does that go for everyone that leaves their country of origin and goes elsewhere to find a better life?

Course it is, and it proves that the crap he wrote is just that - crap.


Depends in what context - modern day British emigration to Australia isn't necessarily for a better life, but for a change of pace.

There's nothing wrong with it, but Des' claiming that Poles and Polonia will reject Western values for Communism is just hilarious.

Ok. So every Pole that moved to the USA did it for "greed and desire", and you see nothing wrong with it.

Does that go for all Poles that left Poland and went elsewhere in Europe like Germany, France, Scandinavia, England, etc.?

jewish is an ethnicity and a religion-

What's wrong with wanting more?


Of course. They're now learning that it's very hard to make something of themselves back in Poland, as those who stayed are the ones headed to the top.

I don't think we'll ever see the return of many of the million-plus in the UK, though.

Not necessarily, pip. Depends on which side of the Great Pond you were raised. I for instance was raised to regard myself as of American nationality, Caucasian race and Jewish faith, nothing more, nothing less.

nothing. just fact checking.


Which brings up another question (although maybe more appropriate in another thread) and that is the VWP issue with the USA and Poland. Do you think, if the doors open, they'll flood into the USA like they did recently with the UK?

Just wondering about something there, pip. Do you consider a Polish fellow citizen of the Jewish faith to be a Pole the same as you, presumably a white Roman Catholic as practically 99.99% of the rest of the country, or a Jew of separate and distinct nationality who merely happens to be living side by side with you in Poland?

Maybe I should've specified my question. If you know someone BORN in Poland as were you, whose last name is e.g. Stankowski etc.. not unconditinionally Goldberg, Cohen etc,,, and speaks Polish as a native, behaves in a 'typically' culturally natural Polish way, would you think of that person as just another Pole, or is there always that sense that they're somehow "different"?

I don't think so - unlike the UK, Germany, etc - there's still significant barriers to working legally there - and the risk of deportation too. No doubt, there will be some overstayers, who will vanish into Polish ghettos - but nothing that will register as significant. We saw with Germany recently that Poles just aren't interested in moving anymore.

I do think however that we'll see a lot more travel for tourist purposes - but they won't stay.

What it *may* encourage is older, retired people going there to live with their children/grandchildren.

Then the person is Polish, vast majority of Poles will agree with that, so no need to search for sensation here... the thing is that majority of pre-WW2 Jews in Poland weren't like that, they definitely didn't behave like typical Poles... they were more like a parallel society, that's why majority of Poles didn't consider them to be Polish... I brought it up becase once I mention that pre-ww2 Jews in Poland generally weren't Polish, the whole crowd of westerners, expats and other freaks, scream it is "antisemitic" to say so and now one of these guys claim that Kashubs aren't Polish... so a group of people, which are ethnically pretty much the same as standard Poles, are native to the land, pretty much all are fluent in Polish and +95% of them declare themselves as Polish, are not really Polish but pre-WW2 Jews were, well a lack of... consistency I would say.

Do you think they would?I don't think so.Why would they flood the US?To work minimum wage job with no health insurance in fear of possibility of deprtation at any moment?You can't compare US to UK in that respect.

Good post.They don't understand (or don't want to) that the Jews in pre war Poland were a nation within a nation.Frankly I think it wouldn't be totaly bad if we had some of these Jews in Poland because i find many of the Jewish women you can see in old movies very attractive.

That's what I'm asking, yes.


What, like it hasn't been done before? New concept? Don't act like it's this crazy idea that nobody would ever dream of doing.


I'm not. I'm asking a question. Keep your panties on.

He didn't say no one. What he said was that there wouldn't be a flood of Poles.
It is a crazy idea, given all those bad news on tv about the USA. Going to the USA is not cheap and being an illegal immigrant is not an appealing idea. Germany is closer and one can go back easly if something doesn't quite come off.


Maybe you thought that would be a rhetorical question? ;)

Didn't you say FLOOD?I am sure SOME,very few in my opinion would,no question about that but personally I don't see any flood coming.How come they didn't flood Canada yet?And when was that done before?You must be mad to think that milions of Poles would turn up to work worst jobs for little money with no legal papers.

He is just an American and likes the thought that he is somewhat special and lucky to live in "a country where everybody wants to live." That's why it's hard to accept for him that there would be no flood.

Then answering your question I don't see many reasons unless the US start giving away green cards to the arriving Poles then yes,expect couple of milions.

Interesting posts, Grzegorz and Fuzzy! It's been an education (..as usual).

Thanks:-)

It seems different American Jews state different things about this. Some say being Jewish can be an ethnicity while others reject that idea.

For example, Bill Maher considers himself "half ethnic Jewish."

What movies?! This is an odd statement.

Your words, not mine.


Why?

No. Your analogy could hardly be more incorrect.
Not born in Poland? Don't speak Polish? Not a child? If all three of those conditions exist then no, that person is not Polish and is not the essence of Poland either.

Very true.