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US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński


Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,146
10 Oct 2011 #151
Those people turned their backs on Poland, renounced their allegiance to Poland and refuse to do anything to assist Poland: they reject their responsibilities, Poland will reject their attempts to exercise their rights.

Your care about Poland is touching...
pawian 225 | 24,601
10 Oct 2011 #152
I think it is ridiculous to participate in Polish voting while you are permenently staying abroad. I hope PO will do sth about it.
Ironside 50 | 12,470
10 Oct 2011 #153
Why because they voted PiS? Polish citizen is Polish citizen.
WielkiPolak 54 | 998
10 Oct 2011 #154
PWEI you have to stop saying that a person who leaves Poland has turned his back on the country and therefore does not deserve to vote. I know many people who do not live in their countries, but are very patriotic, not just Polish people, but people from other countries. Sometimes someone who leaves is more patriotic than someone who still lives there and does nothing but criticize it. I have heard a lot of folks in Poland say they do not care about the country. Perhaps, as an example, some people left in recent years, as they did not like the way PO was ruling Poland, but they want to vote to put a different party in, and hope to return. Some people leave and then decide to give up their citizenship, that is a different story. Some on the other hand, just want to make a bit of many before returning.
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #155
WielkiPolak
PWEI you have to stop saying that a person who leaves Poland has turned his back on the country and therefore does not deserve to vote.

If they announce that Poland isn't a good enough place for them to live, why should they have any say in how Poland is run? They don't want Poland, so why should Poland be forced to tolerate them?

WielkiPolak
I know many people who do not live in their countries, but are very patriotic, not just Polish people, but people from other countries.

If they loved their country as much as they claim, they would not leave it: they would stay there and work to make the country better.

WielkiPolak
Some on the other hand, just want to make a bit of many before returning.

So let them go and make money. After they have made enough and have returned to Poland, i.e. after they have agreed that their country is more important than the size of their wallet, they can vote here again.
pawian 225 | 24,601
10 Oct 2011 #156
=Ironside]Why because they voted PiS? Polish citizen is Polish citizen.

A Polish citizen who stays abroad longer than a year or two should lose the right to vote Polish candidates in Polish elections, no matter what his/her political choice is.
OP Polonius3 986 | 12,343
10 Oct 2011 #157
Those who would flippantly disenfranchise (deprive of voting rights) Polish expats in America would do well to bear in mind that that a goodly portion of US Polonians' hard-earned money is sent to families in Poland. That effectviely amounts to a form of voluntary taxation which probably exceeds what the average RP dweller pays in taxes.
MyMom 6 | 137
10 Oct 2011 #158
PWEI you have to stop saying that a person who leaves Poland has turned his back on the country and therefore does not deserve to vote.

Why would you even listen to somebody who himself betrayed his own country for a few zlotys? Ironic, isn't it?
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #159
Polonius3
a goodly portion of US Polonians' hard-earned money is sent to families in Poland.

Statistics to support that claim please.

Polonius3
That effectviely amounts to a form of voluntary taxation which probably exceeds what the average RP dweller pays in taxes.

a) No it does not: the point about taxes is that one pays them and then trusts the government to spend the money wisely. One is not able to direct where ones money goes.

b) If these Polish 'expats' want to help Poland, there is nothing stopping them from paying taxes in Poland. They are perfectly welcome to simply donate their money to the Polish State Treasury. They clearly think that they have the right to control how the Polish government spends its money, so they should make sure that the Polish government has money to spend. How much do you donate to the Polish State Treasury?
Jahred
10 Oct 2011 #160
If they announce that Poland isn't a good enough place for them to live, why should they have any say in how Poland is run?

Stupid logic here. Ever think that maybe they want to vote for a party they feel will improve Poland?

If they loved their country as much as they claim, they would not leave it: they would stay there and work to make the country better.

Tell that to some of the Polish immigrants I know who couldn't even find a job in Poland to earn enough money to put food on the table.

I think it is ridiculous to participate in Polish voting while you are permenently staying abroad. I hope PO will do sth about it.

In reality, you're just saying that because most Polish-Americans didn't vote for your preferred party. Had it been the other way, you would be staying quiet.

For the record, I'm not a Polish citizen so don't try to say I'm biased as I do not give a **** about Polish politics.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,367
10 Oct 2011 #161
would do well to bear in mind that that a goodly portion of US Polonians' hard-earned money is sent to families in Poland

in what way would this change, if they lost the right to vote ?
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #162
Jahred
Ever think that maybe they want to vote for a party they feel will improve Poland?

If they really wanted to improve Poland, they could do far far more than just vote for any political party.

Jahred
Tell that to some of the Polish immigrants I know who couldn't even find a job in Poland to earn enough money to put food on the table.

There is plenty of work in Poland for those who want to do it!

Jahred
In reality, you're just saying that because most Polish-Americans didn't vote for your preferred party. Had it been the other way, you would be staying quiet.

Nope, the vast majority of Polish prisoners voted for the parties I prefer but I have still spoken out against them being allowed to vote.
pawian 225 | 24,601
10 Oct 2011 #163
=Jahred]
In reality, you're just saying that because most Polish-Americans didn't vote for your preferred party. Had it been the other way, you would be staying quiet.

Wrong! I am the fairest guy in southern Poland. :):):):)

For the record, I'm not a Polish citizen so don't try to say I'm biased as I do not give a **** about Polish politics.

So why don`t you feck off? :):):):)
JonnyM 11 | 2,609
10 Oct 2011 #164
Polish citizens that live abroad should not lose the right to vote in Polish elections.

They should if they don't pay tax in PL. Their responsibility/privilege ended the day they expatriated.

Ever think that maybe they want to vote for a party they feel will improve Poland?

Let them vote for a party they feel will improve their adopted home. Where they actually live. Instead of being backseat drivers.

Poland isn't some semi-mythical ethnic homeland. It's a modern European state. 40 million people live there. They (whether ethhnic Poles or not) have a stake in what happens here. They pay the taxes, they have to actually live under whatever government is in office, good or bad. Exiles do not. They have a new country to worry about.

Anyway, the Polonia vote doesn't really count for anything - they can vote for losers (as they did this time) or they can vote for winners. But they can't affect the result.
Jahred
10 Oct 2011 #165
If they really wanted to improve Poland, they could do far far more than just vote for any political party.

Like what exactly? My Polish exgirlfriend sends money to her family back in Poland. What else can she do?

There is plenty of work in Poland for those who want to do it!

No, not in every job field. My exgirlfriend is a physicist but could not find a job for her specialty back in Poland.

And if there is plenty of work, why are so many Poles moving to Germany, Netherlands, and the UK for jobs?

Nope, the vast majority of Polish prisoners voted for the parties I prefer but I have still spoken out against them being allowed to vote.

That was not directed at you but why would Polish prisoners not have a right to vote? They are still citizens.
Ironside 50 | 12,470
10 Oct 2011 #166
a) No it does not: the point about taxes is that one pays them and then trusts the government to spend the money wisely. One is not able to direct where ones money goes.

you are clearly takin' ****/

f they loved their country as much as they claim, they would not leave it: they would stay there and work to make the country better.

What do you know about that, you love no country (according to you)

So let them go and make money. After they have made enough and have returned to Poland, i.e. after they have agreed that their country is more important than the size of their wallet, they can vote here again.

talking about monies ? you inherited monies and can always turn to your mum for grands (still according to you)
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #167
Jahred
My Polish exgirlfriend sends money to her family back in Poland. What else can she do?

Come back here and teach physics at secondary school for a few years. The school where my girlfriend works needs a couple of physics teachers and from what she says that school is far from the only one in need.

Jahred
And if there is plenty of work, why are so many Poles moving to Germany, Netherlands, and the UK for jobs?

Wages are (or at least seem) better there.

Jahred
why would Polish prisoners not have a right to vote? They are still citizens.

They are citizens who have not satisfied the responsibilities which go with citizenship; therefore they should be allowed to enjoy the rights which go with citizenship (and they are not, for example they are deprived of their rights to freedom of movement and association).
Jahred
10 Oct 2011 #168
They pay the taxes, they have to actually live under whatever government is in office, good or bad. Exiles do not. They have a new country to worry about.

That is your opinion but in the end, there is no Polish law prohibiting people from voting just because they no longer live in Poland.
pawian 225 | 24,601
10 Oct 2011 #169
=Jahred]there is no Polish law prohibiting people from voting just because they no longer live in Poland.

Not yet. But I strongly hope it will be passed in the future.
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #170
Ironside
you inherited monies and can always turn to your mum for grands (still according to you)

a) No I did not.
b) I could but I won't (and probably won't be able to for much longer anyway, given the way my sister is roaring through the cash).
hythorn 3 | 580
10 Oct 2011 #171
And if there is plenty of work, why are so many Poles moving to Germany, Netherlands, and the UK for jobs?

the work is available in Poland however you can often earn more working abroad, but you knew that in any case probably

That was not directed at you but why would Polish prisoners not have a right to vote? They are still citizens.

most countries do not allow incarcerated criminals to vote in the same way they don't let pop out and go to the shops
Des Essientes 7 | 1,288
10 Oct 2011 #172
This belief that Polish citizens should have to pay money to the government of Poland to be allowed to vote in Polish elections comes from people who have a prostitute's mentality.
jwojcie 2 | 762
10 Oct 2011 #173
The thing is that those living abroad:
- don't pay taxes here
- don't use public utilities/public funds/public transport/public schools/public whatever here
- their daily life has nothing to do with daily life in Poland
- they don't serve in Polish army
- they do not do many other things in Poland
- basically they have no business here other than sentimental

I don't deny anyone to be patriotic, frankly speaking that is great that there are people all over the world who do care about Poland. So, please buy a recent edition of Adam Mickewicz poems, or make some lecture about great victory of Chodkiewicz near Kircholm to your foreign neighbours, or solve some mathematic problems designed by Stefan Banach. But for goodness sake don't try to influence where we Poles in Poland should build next highway or how we should finance higher education, etc. etc. Because that is what this elections are mostly about... And again, I don't care if some Polish American voted for PIS, or Polish Londoner voted for PO.
Jahred
10 Oct 2011 #174
Come back here and teach physics at secondary school for a few years. The school where my girlfriend works needs a couple of physics teachers and from what she says that school is far from the only one in need.

Teaching at a secondary school in Poland would give her a laughable salary compared to what she's earning now at a top American engineering firm. Also, teaching isn't something she wants to do anyway.

Wages are (or at least seem) better there.

Which is a good reason to move to another country.

They are citizens who have not satisfied the responsibilities which go with citizenship; therefore they should be allowed to enjoy the rights which go with citizenship (and they are not, for example they are deprived of their rights to freedom of movement and association).

You are giving nothing more than your opinion. The fact is, they are still citizens and have a right to vote.
JonnyM 11 | 2,609
10 Oct 2011 #175
This belief that Polish citizens should have to pay money to the government of Poland to be allowed to vote in Polish elections comes from people who have a prostitute's mentality.

So permanently refuse to pay your tax bill in whatever country you live and see what happens. Taxes are the entry fee to a civilised world.

And stop making silly comments about

a prostitute's mentality

and commenting on who should or should not vote in a country (nay, a whole continent) that you've never even been to and to which you have 'links' that are at best highly tenuous.
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #176
Des Essientes
people who have a prostitute's mentality.

No need for anybody to ask how you know so well how the minds of prostitutes work.

Jahred
Teaching at a secondary school in Poland would give her a laughable salary compared to what she's earning now at a top American engineering firm. Also, teaching isn't something she wants to do anyway.

So she puts her own enrichment far above the needs of Poland. If she won't help Poland, why should she have any say in how Poland is run?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,288
10 Oct 2011 #177
No need for anybody to ask how you know so well how the minds of prostitutes work.

I am seeing it right here on this thread. "You've got to pay to play" is a hookers motto. I on the otherhand do not believe Polish citizens should be disenfranchised because they travel. Citizens of the USA retain all their rights when they travel abroad as do Poles. Poland and the USA: two proud republics that should be immune from the faulty electoral advice of British ponces.
PWEI 3 | 612
10 Oct 2011 #178
Des Essientes
British ponces.

Is it completely impossible for you to post without insulting people? It very much seems that as you treat the rules here with complete contempt that you should be reminded of what happens to the people who think that they are above the rules (and to those who get hammered before posting, which is my standard error).
Jahred
10 Oct 2011 #179
So she puts her own enrichment far above the needs of Poland. If she won't help Poland, why should she have any say in how Poland is run?

If by help you mean pay taxes, well why would she if she's not using Polish healthcare or other public services?

She should have a say in how Poland runs because one day if the country ever improves, she might move there but since it's not running the way she feels would benefit Poles more, that's a good enough reason for her not to live there at the moment.
JonnyM 11 | 2,609
10 Oct 2011 #180
"You've got to pay to play" is a hookers motto.

Most of us wouldn't know that.

Polish citizens should be disenfranchised because they travel.

'Travel'? 'Travel'?? We're talking about people who emigrate to the other side of the world, throw their lot in with an entirely new country and settle there permanently. Not travel. You really should get someone to explain this to you. Perhaps a Civics course at your local community college.

republics that should be immune from the faulty electoral advice

Most people would say that someone who lives in a country should have a greater say than someone who doesn't...


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