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US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
21 Jun 2010 #1
Polonian voters in the US overwhelmingly cast their ballots for Jarosław Kaczyński (70%) as against 25% for Bronisław Komorowski. Napieralski got less than 3%. Canadian Polonians produced similar results. Our Polonia appears to be more patriotic, tradition-bound and staunchly anti-Communist than voters in Poland itself.
frd 7 | 1,399
21 Jun 2010 #2
Yeah, damn backwater rednecks
Trevek 26 | 1,702
21 Jun 2010 #3
This is all part of the Michael Jackson effect.

MJ, a washed up pop star with a dubious history of suspected molestation etc... many people predicting he'd be a flop at the forthcoming concerts...

he dies... suddenly all sins are washed clean and he is the king of pop, more successful than he evem was alive.

Lech kaczynski and his brother, a washed up, unpopular ex-PM and a brother who is president but widely expected to be humiliated at the polls, internationally considered a bit of a joke (at least in EU). Lech dies... a hero of Poland, his name forever linked to the martyrs of Katyń, a state funeral... laid to rest in wawel... everyone saying how wonderful he was... now, his formerly washed up ex-PM brother rides high in elections on a wave of sympathy and delusion (don't people recall why they voted him out the first time?).
landora - | 199
21 Jun 2010 #4
People that are not planning to come back to Poland, have never been to Poland or have been out of the country for more than 10 years should not be allowed to vote. Why are they allowed to decide what happens in the country they have never lived in? They have no idea what's happening in Poland and quite frankly, it's none of their business. Some of them barely speak Polish any more, but oh, they are SO patriotic! I don't want to be affected by the decisions of people who actually live over the ocean and just feel sentimental about the "old country". Come and live here and than we will talk!
vetala - | 382
21 Jun 2010 #5
This confirms my suspition about the views of Polish Americans. While Poland transformed they remained stuck in the old way of thinking.
zetigrek
21 Jun 2010 #6
patriotic

xDDDDd LOL
What a biased opinion. Voting for Kaczyncki certainly isnt patriotism.
mafketis 24 | 8,934
21 Jun 2010 #7
Our Polonia appears to be more patriotic, traditon-bound and staunchly anti-Communist than voters in Poladn itslef.

Plus, they've never had to live under a government with a Kaczynski in charge.

Most of the Napieralski (and JKM) votes were protest votes against Komorowki's gaffe-prone campaign and most of those should go to Komorowski in the next round.

But my biggest fear is the run off. A lot of potential Komorowski voters will be on vacation and the PiS voters won't.

As one talking head on tv said, in the first round (Polish) people vote for lots of different reasons, in the second round they vote against the candidate they like least. I imagine that despite the core popularity of JK he has bigger negatives than BK.

If JK does, somehow win, I expect the Polish public will find out just how little he's changed and regret trusting him (just as they regretted trusting him the first time around).

That isn't to say I completely dislike him. I just think that PiS functions better as an opposition party than a governing one.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,262
21 Jun 2010 #8
Our Polonia appears to be more patriotic, traditon-bound and staunchly anti-Communist than voters in Poladn itslef.

Or unable to read Polish and thus completely isolated from what is actually going on here. I even saw one person online claim that Kaczynski was a true conservative and not a socialist unlike Komorowski - which made me weep with laughter when you look at how completely socialist some of Kaczynski's policies actually are.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 488
21 Jun 2010 #9
i just wonder- why Polonia has right to vote? i mean: if someone doesn't live in Poland, pay no taxes in Poland- why should he(she) have a right to vote.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
21 Jun 2010 #10
Our Polonia appears to be more patriotic, traditon-bound and staunchly anti-Communist than voters in Poladn itslef.

Isn't that the case with any ppl of any nationality that lives in the US or in Canada? Aren't the Dutch who live there more Dutch than the Dutch themselves? And the Germans, Irish, Italian...? I think it's a general phenomena.

And you know why that is? First, because America doesn't have a cultural heritage of herself and second, it's much safer to oppose changes when there is 5000 km of water between you and the places where those changes have to happen. You don't need to discuss it with anybody and don't run any risk. Thirdly it's the general ignorance Americans display when it concerns matters of Europe. They are Americans, don't forget that. Even though they may have Polish, Dutch, German, Irish or Italian anchestors, they're still full blooded 100 per cent Americans.

>^..^<

M-G (haec hactenus)
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
21 Jun 2010 #11
Polonian voters in the US overwhelmingly cast their ballots for Jarosław Kaczyński (70%)

So young Poles in Polonia don't laugh at Kaczynski (as they do in Poland)?
frd 7 | 1,399
21 Jun 2010 #12
They do as they parents do, same as in Poland, there's a lot of young people voting for Kaczynski after their parents, you don't see them because you have friends in different educated social circles... beside most of Kaczynskis voters come from the countryside..
delphiandomine 85 | 18,262
21 Jun 2010 #13
So young Poles in Polonia don't laugh at Kaczynski (as they do in Poland)?

They don't speak the language and only know what they read in English-language media - that Kaczynski is a conservative. They have precious little understanding that Kaczynski is really just a Catholic-socialist.
zetigrek
21 Jun 2010 #14
M-G if someone wants to vote he has to have polish citizenship. So: CO MA PIERNIK DO WIATRAKA???

Isn't that the case with any ppl of any nationality that lives in the US or in Canada? Aren't the Dutch who live there more Dutch than the Dutch themselves? And the Germans, Irish, Italian...?

No.
Matowy - | 295
21 Jun 2010 #15
Isn't that the case with any ppl of any nationality that lives in the US or in Canada?

They WISH they were real Dutch or whatever, so they over-exaggerate their "heritage" in a pathetic attempt to make themselves seem more exotic and interesting, which is the case with these "Polish"-Americans. It's a phenomena of desperation.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
21 Jun 2010 #16
if someone wants to vote he has to have polish citizenship

That's why the knowledge that 70 per cent would vote for Kaczynski is irrelevant knowledge.

No

Yes they are. Believe me, I've met "Dutch" Americans in the States who had gathered just about all the Dutch stereotype things in their houses to an extend that even the Dutch in the Netherlands do not have. So in that sense, yes, they are more Dutch than the Dutch themselves.

>^..^<

M-G (haec hactenus)
Moonlighting 31 | 233
21 Jun 2010 #17
i just wonder- why Polonia has right to vote? i mean: if someone doesn't live in Poland, pay no taxes in Poland- why should he(she) have a right to vote.

It's an interesting point. But following your logic, would you then accept that foreigners living in Poland, working and paying taxes there, have the right to vote?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Jun 2010 #18
It would appear that the margin is similar or even more according to media polls. I think it was onet.pl that ran the story today. I think they are just creating hope for JK fans because BK has this in the bag.
Pinching Pete - | 558
21 Jun 2010 #19
Thirdly it's the general ignorance Americans display when it concerns matters of Europe.

Like most Europeans, you mistake apathy for ignorance. And listen, just because some retard has some Dutch curios in their house doesn't mean they wish to be Dutch. I don't know of any American who wishes to be European. Proud of our roots there, sure.. but yearn to move over there? Assume that identity? Haha. Hell no.. lol. It's too lazy of a pace.

When we talk about German-Amer, Poland-Amer, Ital.. whatever it's used to differentiate between ourselves. Irish Ami is very different from Italian or whatever. People don't actually think they are these nationalities.. unless they are complete nerds or something. Amer Jews do that with Israel.. that's about it.
vetala - | 382
21 Jun 2010 #20
But following your logic, would you then accept that foreigners living in Poland, working and paying taxes there, have the right to vote?

I don't see a problem.
convex 20 | 3,978
21 Jun 2010 #21
That's why the knowledge that 70 per cent would vote for Kaczynski is irrelevant knowledge.

Quite a few have passports, and they make it a point to vote. That's why Polish politicians come over to the US to campaign...

The US government should make foreigners give up any additional citizenships if they are naturalized. Problem solved.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
21 Jun 2010 #22
Quite a few have passports, and they make it a point to vote. That's why Polish politicians come over to the US to campaign...

God Save Poland in that case :)

I know what you mean, they come here in Dubs as well to campaign. There are even Polish posters in a lot of places.

>^..^<

M-G (haec hactenus)
mafketis 24 | 8,934
21 Jun 2010 #23
The US government should make foreigners give up any additional citizenships if they are naturalized. Problem solved.

I think they do, but ...

A lot of Polish in the US don't have US citizenship.

Even if you give up other citizenship, some governments (including, I think, Poland) will issue you another Polish passport. What the US government doesn't know won't hurt the dual passport holder.
zetigrek
21 Jun 2010 #24
Ok, I've just met some guy who lived in USA for couple of years and wear mustache and hairstyle like from the movie Ogniem i Mieczem:

and claiming that he want to have wedding wearing polish national costume which looks like that:

.......

He said that in USA everyone are proud of their ancestors heritage and we Poles are just the ones who are ashamed to show off with our national symbols
smurf 39 | 1,981
21 Jun 2010 #25
I dont agree with people living long-term outside their country havin a say in a country they don't live in anymore
Bartolome 2 | 1,085
21 Jun 2010 #26
The US government should make foreigners give up any additional citizenships if they are naturalized. Problem solved.

No, it's not. In order to renounce Polish citizenship you have to apply directly to the President of the Rep. of Poland. Then your application gets stuck inside some 1,5 km high pile of papers. Then our Presidente refuses to renounce your citizenship, because being a Polish citizen is equivalent to being a property by Poland.

It's an interesting point. But following your logic, would you then accept that foreigners living in Poland, working and paying taxes there, have the right to vote?

I hope this will be addressed by the lawmakers not only in Poland but also in other civilised countries. You already have the right to vote in European and, I suppose, local elections (at least in the UK). Additionally, I can also vote in elections to Scottish Parliament. The people living long term in countries but not holding their citizenships should be allowed to vote after some time. However, I suppose there would be some opposition - which would be absolutely understandable - against participation of people who only take from the system contributing nothing or little. So I guess in this case you'd have to bring along your payslips in order to vote :)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
21 Jun 2010 #27
I would like to gently remind some of the forum members, especially those who could barely walk, or weren't even born, twenty years + ago about the material and political support that flew from the "treacherous" Polonia to Poland to help the "real patriots" now enjoy relative freedom. I lived in Poland at that time so I kinda know.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
21 Jun 2010 #28
If that's the case, it just shows that 70% of Polonians in America haven't lived in Poland in the past twenty years.

In my opinion, If you're allowed to vote in the Polish elections despite living abroad for so many years, you should also pay tax to Poland.
Moonlighting 31 | 233
21 Jun 2010 #29
You already have the right to vote in European and, I suppose, local elections (at least in the UK).

Actually, my remark was not to express disappointment or anything. I consider normal that a foreigner, whichever country he is, isn't automatically granted the right to vote. And it doesn't matter whether it is a presidential election, or local, or European. ;-)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
21 Jun 2010 #30
In my opinion, If you're allowed to vote in the Polish elections despite living abroad for so many years, you should also pay tax to Poland.

would Polish recipients of various Polish welfare benefits be disallowed to vote then?
A lot of them pay in taxes a tiny portion, if anything at all, of what they receive.


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