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Prayer, relgious symbols OK in public in Québec! Poland watches.


jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #31
Never forget it was Franco's Spain that repeated Poland's 1920 victiory over the Bolshevik assault

Tosh. They attacked the legitimate government and unleashed a reign of terror - one incidentaly that many Polish people fought against as part of the International Brigades. And, more pertinently to the discussion they persecuted religions using the apparatus of the state.
Barney 14 | 1,469
15 Jun 2013  #32
as well as the persecution of religious groups in Franco's Spain

Yeah I was reading about Miguel de Unamuno during the week when the Fascist traitor Astray shouted

"Death to intelligence! Long live death",

Unamuno was a conservative Catholic theologian no friend of the legitimate democratic government, he responded

"You will win, because you have enough brute force. But you will not convince"

The Fascist traitors persecuted the church just like Hitler and other despots.

Anti-clericalism is not a straight left right thing Palikot the Polish tea party don't like the church Stalin didn't like the Church.

Edit

Were it not for Franco's rebuff of the Stalinist forces that tried to set up shop there, all of Europe might have been engulfed by the red menace.

Franco was a Spanish traitor who introduced fascism into Spain
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #33
Unamuno was a conservative Catholic theologian

I know him more as a convinced liberal. His writings are fascinating. Interesting that he was commemorated by Spanish freemasonry last year - his poetry crosses boundaries.

Anti-clericalism is not a straight left right thing Palikot the Polish tea party don't like the church Stalin didn't like the Church.

Stalin's position on religion changed several times during his life - remember he had been a seminarian. Ex smokers are the worst. Ruch Palikota however have never suggested bulldozing churches and locking up clergy. Just maintaining a secular state.
Barney 14 | 1,469
15 Jun 2013  #34
Ex smokers are the worst

How did you know I had given up the evil weed in a vain attempt to extend this misery for another few years ;)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2013  #35
International Brigades

A nice euphemism for communist guerirllas recrutied from ariound the world by Stalin's Comintern. They included the communist Abraham Lincoln Brigade set up by the Communist Party of the USA and Poland's Dąbrowski Brigade. To have allowed the 'legally elected' communist government considate theri rule would have unleashed a red bloodbath unlike anything ever seen outside the USSR.

The fact that leftist writers have glamourised the so-called 'republican side' has somehow made it trendy amongst the gullible to badmouth the nationalists fighting to free their land of bolshevik infiltration.

Both sides used extremely cruel methods but what they stood for is what counts. Religious groups that collaborated with the red scourge were dealt with harshly. The bottom line is that luckily communism did not gain a foothold along Europe's western fringes.

Don't forget that Hitler was also legally elected. Bur Germany lacked a Franco with the balls to nip things in the bud early on before the Nazis could unleash their wave of death and destruction.
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #36
the 'legally elected' communist government

Not that the government were communist, but don't let facts get in the way of your morbid fantasies.

Don't forget that Hitler was also legally elected

As you may know (or pretend not to) he got in the back door, rather like Duckboy and his PiSuarzy. The difference is that the PiSuarzy were thrown out of office as soon as legally possible.
Barney 14 | 1,469
15 Jun 2013  #37
Both sides used extremely cruel methods but what they stood for is what counts.

That sounds like you are trying to justify one side over the other. The fact is that the general slaughter unleashed by the traitorous coup leaders far outstrips anything the government side did.

The international brigades were not communist guerirllas though kudos for recognising the meaning and source of guerrilla.
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #38
Both sides used extremely cruel methods but what they stood for is what counts

No. What they did is what counts. And Franco was doing it for decades. You sound as if you're trying to say that the end justifies the means.
Meathead 5 | 470
15 Jun 2013  #39
Jesus of Nazareth didn't believe in religion in the public square:

Matt 6:5-7

And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward. But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly. But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2013  #40
Not that the government were communist

It was efffectively communist and pro-Soviet. Sure they hid behind high-sounding terms like republican and loyalist, but the ubiquitous Stalin portraits showed under whose patronage the red slaughter was being carried out. They were bent on introducing Soviet-style rule as soon as they consolidated their power. In your view, there was no such thing 'as the Comintern designed to spread the red menace world-wide? Stalin's Comintern masterminded, organised and bankrolled the so-called 'brigades' through web of Soviet spies and sympathetic collaborators.
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #41
It was efffectively communist and pro-Soviet.

No is wasn't. It was a coalition of Social Democrats, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists and other moderates.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2013  #42
It was a coalition of Social Democrats, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists and other moderates.

Which of them were murdering priests, raping nuns, pillaging and burning down churches?
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #43
None of the above, and you know it. Which of your fascists were carrying out mass executions and accepting illegal military support from Hitler's Germany?
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Jun 2013  #44
Well, I see no problem in publicly displaying religious Christan symbols and a public prayer.
I think that should be OK in Poland.
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #45
Well, I see no problem in publicly displaying religious Christan symbols and a public prayer.

What about the symbols of any other religion, provided some of those present would like to see them?
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Jun 2013  #46
Any other religion which not have more that 5% of the population in Poland should just display their symbols in their place of worship excluding of course satanism which should be prosecuted by the state.
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #47
satanism which should be prosecuted by the state.

Why?
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Jun 2013  #48
Because it is not good for people. Also because its set against Christianity.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
15 Jun 2013  #49
Because it is not good for people.

Who are you to decide what's good for people?

That sounds like Communist talk to me - portraying something as "enemy of the people" and so on.
jkb - | 198
15 Jun 2013  #50
satanism which should be prosecuted by the state.

No religion or anti-religion should be ever prosecuted by the state.

Ironside: Because it is not good for people.
Who are you to decide what's good for people?

He's the messiah of the nations :)
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Jun 2013  #51
Who are you to decide what's good for people?

Well you know a lot about communism fior somebody who is 28 and came form Scotland, party membership?

I'm ME! You are asking stupid question. Christianity says that and all that stands behind that, and it is my turn to uphold the standard..

He's the messiah of the nations :)

.Go and provide prove for your claims first.
If you don't understand ta ta!talk to my hand you are boring.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
15 Jun 2013  #52
He's the messiah of the nations :)

He puts Jesus to shame!

Christianity says that and all that stands behind that, and it is my turn to uphold the standard..

Your turn? More of the TKM talk?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2013  #53
None of the above

You really are brainwashed! Where did you get your one-sided view of history, from feature films and comic books? Any thoughtful person must admit that the nationalists employed extremely harsh, cruel and extreme methods to rout the bolshevik vermin, but the reds were not exactly holding a Sunday School picnic.

If you taken the time to go beyond urban legends, fiction and buzzwords, you would have learnt about the Red Terror (Terror Rojo), the name given by historians to acts of terror committed by nearly all the so-called 'republicans' or 'loyalists' in the Spanish Civil War. They killed tens of thousands of people (including 6,832 members of the Catholic clergy). They also launched as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians as well as desecrating and burning of monasteries and churches:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)
jon357 63 | 14,124
15 Jun 2013  #54
Because it is not good for people

Really? Nor is beer, but I don't see you advocating a ban on that. Not that there's any evidence whatsoever that the faith in question is 'not good for people'.

Also because its set against Christianity.

The two main denominations of that religion never comment on and hold no organisational point of view about other religions. The more popular of the two in Poland are very particular about that. Christianity however is 'set against' the faith that you believe 'should be banned'.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
15 Jun 2013  #55
He puts Jesus to shame!

Stalin would be proud of you.

Your turn? More of the TKM talk?

More of a new-speak rubbish. Some people are eating stop it is no fair on them.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2013  #56
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)

The above wikipedia link also shows a photo of a red firing squad taking aim at a statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The British press headlined the event: 'Red assault on Catholic presence in Spain.' Seems some PF-ers have the same mentality as those bolshie gunmen: destroy, purge, eliminate!!
Barney 14 | 1,469
15 Jun 2013  #57
The Catholic hierarchy approved of the murder of hundreds of thousands of people including many after the war. If you want a silly body count comparison the fascists against democracy win that one big time.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Jun 2013  #58
Would you expect the Church to enthusiastically embrace a political movement whose aim was to destroy religion, confiscate people's rightlful possessions, promote free love and introduce a godless regime?
jon357 63 | 14,124
16 Jun 2013  #59
Would you expect them to condone violence?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Jun 2013  #60
In self-defence, yes. Imagne a raging wild-eyed band of bolshies barging into a church, pocketing valuable religious artefacts, smashing up priceless statuary and hacking ornate confessionals to pieces. The priest should have come out of the sacristy and said: 'Greetnings lads! In case you want to torch the palce, there's some petrol stored in the cellar.'


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