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Living in Poland - prospects for Alabama guy ... need some advice!


OP jasondmzk
8 May 2012 #91
Than you should stay the hell out of Europe.

Why's that? Are they planning a sequel? Kristallnacht II: The Kristall Strikes Back?
Meathead 5 | 497
8 May 2012 #92
What would it take to flair up again? Look at the financial crisis, Europe is at each others throats again.
OP jasondmzk
8 May 2012 #93
Yeah, but who's left to blame? Blaming Jews is so... passe. It's much less gauche to hate elected politicians, nowadays. Besides, there's what, 8000 Jews in Poland, now? How many of those are gonna be bankers or merchants that somebody could accuse of.. whatever it is people used to accuse Jews of doing? I bet there's more active anti-semitism on this forum than there are in all of Poland. I mean, there's gonna be the occasional old lady that yells "Poland for the Polish" at anyone with curls or a yarmulke, but... I think I'd be safe.
pip 10 | 1,659
8 May 2012 #94
you would be safe.
natasia 3 | 368
8 May 2012 #95
You would, of course, be safe, but I think your heritage would be noted/noticed in a way that I imagine it wouldn't be in the States, and even if on a subtle level, 'conclusions' would be drawn about you. I think what Meathead is flagging up is that there is still a very real awareness of where people come from/how the fit in, among particularly older Poles. The opinion I come across most is that somehow the Jews hijacked the sympathy vote for the persecution that happened during WW2 - that 'millions' (always the figure quoted in these discussions) of non-Jewish Poles were also affected, but nobody 'cares' about them. (because ... they are not rich and have not been able to make themselves influential/put themselves in a position to make blockbuster films about it all, etc.). So it isn't any kind of aggressive anti-Semitism, but more a lingering resentment and mistrust.

I think, unfortunately, you will come across it, whether it is overt, or in the general undercurrents of feeling informing how people treat you.

Poor old NMP - what did he do?! I was the one who suggested England. It was only a thought.

I kinda got the reverse-scenario here, with my wife absolutely despising my mother. It's gotten to the point where I actually have to take my kid over to visit her grandmother by myself, the blood between them is so bad

I am more worried about this. It is all tipping in the direction of ... you just do what your wife wants. I don't think there's a choice about moving to Poland, is there? She is going whatever. She can't see the US as her home. Poland has to be. For her career, for her family, for her happiness, and as a place where she wants her child to be brought up. So your choice isn't really a choice ... you will have to get on with it. You aren't just 'thinking of' moving ... you are moving. And in terms of what you do when you get there - you will have so much to take in and think about, maybe writing about it is what you will do. (Not just on PF though, as rather counter-productive in terms of earning hard cash ... certainly seems to interrupt my paid work enough ; )
OP jasondmzk
8 May 2012 #96
I don't think there's a choice about moving to Poland, is there? She is going whatever.

Untrue. At this point, I think she just wants to be anywhere that my mom isn't. I told ya, I totally capitulated on this thing, and her response was Colorado! This would be a good juncture for admitting I've been sorrowfully lacking in showing my wife more of my country. I've lived in Las Vegas, and it's always a sore spot whenever I start a story with, "One time, in Vegas.."; because she's never been there. She's never seen a tumbleweed, a mesa, a Mormon Temple, nada. We've been to Atlanta twice and I avoided 5 Points and downtown like the plague. She wants to SEE stuff, SMELL stuff, TOUCH it, and KNOW it. I want.. to avoid traffic. But, and I'm going to try to deflect the accusations that this is my ego talking, but I don't think she would go to Poland without me, regardless of the pining in her heart. Maybe it's the way I put it on her, the horeshit we've gone through, co-dependence, or whatever. But we're tight. And she doesn't want breakfast from her favorite crepes place bad enough to be a single mother to get them.

Poor old NMP - what did he do?!

I highlighted what irked me.
natasia 3 | 368
8 May 2012 #97
co-dependence, or whatever. But we're tight. And she doesn't want breakfast from her favorite crepes place bad enough to be a single mother to get them.

Ok, that's good. I know that scenario. So then indeed the real question is: Poland or Malibu? : ) ... If I lived in the States, I would be asking to check out California first. But I just like beaches and sunshine and the idea of those Spanish haciendas and 1977 beach parties and wine country and all of that. And everyone always tells me that San Francisco is one of the nicest places in the world. But then I know v little about it, apart from old TV shows.

For what it's worth: I think you should try Poland. I think you would find it immensely valuable, actually, in further knowing your wife. And I think it's important for your child. And I think you should keep learning Polish.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
8 May 2012 #98
What would it take to flair up again? Look at the financial crisis, Europe is at each others throats again.

You are mixing up the Politicians and economists who are 'at each others throats' with the general public.

Europe is nothing like it was eighty years ago and some minor belt tightening on public spending isn't going to change that. In Poland the government is collecting more taxes, beating economic grow predictions and lowering inflation. They and the people have more and more each year, that hardly conducive to a civil breakdown. Unless the high level of house prices is taken into account, thats a big annoyance.
OP jasondmzk
8 May 2012 #99
I was so sick, physically and emotionally, when I was in Frisco, that I never even saw the Golden Gate Bridge. Got nary a glimpse of the sea lions, Alcactraz, or Fisherman's Pier. I bought some weird meatballs from a deli in the Castro District and watched Oh Brother, Where Art Thou in a $90 a night Sleep Inn. I was vomiting, sweating, shivering and pretty much putting my nervous system and every orifice through it's paces like never before. I drove up Market Street, having just that month learned how to "drive" a stick shift, and prayed to God, Allah, Buddah and maybe even Satan that me and my poor Honda Prelude would escape certain death at the hands of maniacal busses and steetcars that refused to admit they were anachronisms and not proper road vehicles. I don't see a return trip, like this century. Maybe in my golden years, with a Hawaii shirt and white sandals, I'll come back as a tourist.
natasia 3 | 368
8 May 2012 #100
I don't see a return trip, like this century.

fair enough : )

What do I know? I won't get in a plane (watched too many 'clean air turbulence fatalities' vids on You Tube to consider it prudent), so I guess am not going to be run over by a street car (or, indeed, crushed beneath a collapsing building, courtesy of the San Andreas Fault) too soon ...

Again, I vote Poland for you.
OP jasondmzk
8 May 2012 #101
You and Peterweg and some others whose opinions care a semblance of weight have actually almost got me sold on this caper. I hope to god you're not all a buncha bitter, schadenfreude-loving sadists.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
8 May 2012 #102
Remember
a) Wages are crap, if you can get a job.
b) Have a plan b)

I overcome a) by working for UK/US companies remotely.
ShawnMichelle - | 1
8 May 2012 #103
I'm in a similar situation and am also thing/dreaming about moving to Poland from the US. My husband is Polish but has lived in the US for the last twenty years. He could care less where we live here or there as long as we are living well. I don't have great advise to give due to the fact that I have never lived in Poland but I can tell you the things I love that make me want to move there. I got to spend six weeks there last summer, I realized that isn't much.

The food there is so much better than in the US as far as being fresh, local and in most cases organic. I'm sure its not always the case but the people I met were very friendly and welcoming. My three year old speaks better Polish than I but even so I didn't feel left out. It seemed that most people from the younger generation had a great command of English and most everyone was patient with my non-existant Polish. One of the major factors for me are the family values I witnessed which seemed to exist throughout the communities we visited. I do realize that you can create that in your home anywhere but it is less common in America(and not really supported by society). I loved being able to walk and take trains everywhere instead of driving. Poland is absolutely beautiful. Poland has so much to offer but I promised myself I wouldn't ramble.

As to what you could do in Poland you could go back to school if that interest you, I have noticed many English programs that are available.

One thing that is important to consider is if and when Poland switches to the EURO. I have read other forums that say it may happen in 2015. I wonder what that will do to Polands economy strengthen/weaken. I was hoping some one might have insight on this subject.

I wish you the best and I vote Poland all the way! :)
peterweg 37 | 2,319
8 May 2012 #104
One thing that is important to consider is if and when Poland switches to the EURO. I have read other forums that say it may happen in 2015. I wonder what that will do to Polands economy strengthen/weaken. I was hoping some one might have insight on this subject.

There is a big doubt over whether Poland will join the Euro so soon, however Poland economy is so tied into the Eurozone it is probably inevitable. Poland is a fasr more logical Euro memeber than Spain,Portugal, Ireland (in particular), Greece etc.

The usual effect is that prices and wages will go up with the euro entry. Property in particular. But for the foreseeable future Euro is irrelevant to Poland as its in a mess for now with some unsuitable economies leaving. Bye-bye Greece.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
8 May 2012 #105
you just do what your wife wants.

Happy wife. Happy life :)
This simple rule of thumb has worked for me.
Interesting thread.
I too, for what it's worth, vote Poland (I wish I was in your position. I actually envy you :)
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
8 May 2012 #106
This is a tough situation in general because your wife isn't taking a leap, she's moving back to her country, her family, her language, what's familiar. You, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into. That's a huge risk, especially with a baby on the way and you having no idea what you're going to do for cash.

If you and your wife are cool with winters, lots of young white people with beards, The North Face clothing, Subaru's, and coffee shops everywhere.....then my vote is Colorado.

You'd be a lost soul in Poland, man.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
8 May 2012 #107
You'd be a lost soul in Poland, man.

Not if you're up for the adventure!
pip 10 | 1,659
8 May 2012 #108
jesus, moving to Poland is not like moving to Uzbekistan. Poland has everything you need. And it they don't have it then you don't need it. Cheddar cheese- it's here, bacon- it's here, french's mustard- it is here. Good beer, good food, great people---it is here.

what Poland doesn't have is good roads....but it is coming slowly. Beaches, mountains, lakes--it is here. Opportunities- if you have a good idea and work hard you can do anything- I am proof of that- I own my own business that is coming along. My language skills are good. Health care is top of the line- as is dental.

bottom line- it is not difficult to start a new life and if a year or six months down the road you are not happy- then you can always move back.
natasia 3 | 368
8 May 2012 #109
You'd be a lost soul in Poland, man.

No, don't believe it. You would FIND your soul in Poland! : ) Actually, I'm sure you have a firm grip of your soul and do know exactly who you are, but I think Poland would interest you, daily, in a lot of ways, as you seem, dare I say it, a thinking guy who engages with what is around him with no small degree of insight.

Look, I lived on an exquisite Greek island for a year and half when I was 21/22. It was a paradise. And a tiny place at that, with only a thousand or so residents in the winter. I had everything one could wish for in terms of natural beauty around me, and I was adored by the village where I lived (no exaggeration). My long golden hair to my waist, my innocence, those cheekbones that come in handy in Poland because they seem Slavic, the green eyes ... it all worked. Old women and young men alike wept when they saw me. I was known universally as 'The Girl'. Seriously.

And then ...

I came back to rainy London, peopled by friendly-ish, moderate-ish mongrels, nice enough as they are. And a job came up in Poland. For two weeks before Xmas, two weeks after. Then I would have started a job I had fixed up in London. And I though 'hey, why not? Let's go see Poland'. I went. A greyer and more dismal lunar landscape one could not have found. The startlingly spartan and shabby concrete towers that strode across those endless flat planes of grey and white. The people hunched inside their monochrome coats, and existences. But once knock on a scratched metal door in a graffitied concrete corridor, and it is opened, and ... my God. What people. What energy. What life. What love. What colour. The people were that splash of colour in Poland. I loved them, immediately, in all their obvious mortality and need, with their hearts, however proudly hidden, still quite visible on their sleeves. And for me those monstrous blocks, those dirty roads and blackened walls, the dark canals and beaten trams that cross the cities ... that all became some kind of beautiful landscape for me.

I guess I fell in love with it all, with them, with the romance, the pathos ... just all of it. So don't ask me, probably, whether you should go, because I will say yes, yes, go.

And I haven't seen the half of it. My next plan is the mountains, to the South.
Pushbike 2 | 58
8 May 2012 #110
I have experience with both, America has the best health care in the World,

ANY private health care sytem is good. America has the worst sytem because you have to pay for it.
pip 10 | 1,659
8 May 2012 #111
Meathead: I have experience with both, America has the best health care in the World,

holy crap this is the biggest, worst, saddest joke I have heard all year. If you believe this you must be smoking crack.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
8 May 2012 #112
I mean, there's gonna be the occasional old lady that yells "Poland for the Polish" at anyone with curls or a yarmulke, but... I think I'd be safe.

There are quite a few Jews in Krakow who cater (food and hotels) for the visiting parties (schoolkids) from Israel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Community_Centre_of_Krakow

America has the best health care in the World, bar none.

Only Americans believe that. According to this (out of date..) USA comes in at 37th.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems

Some sort of explanation:

medcitynews.com/2012/02/the-misconception-that-american-has-the-best-healthcare-in-the-world/
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
8 May 2012 #113
Poor old NMP - what did he do?! I was the one who suggested England. It was only a thought.

He's just p*ssed because your posts are worth replying to, and his aren't :D

Let's face it, he started this thread because, deep down, he knows that his wife is way out of his league - and we all know what Polki do when they move back home with some loser in tow, who is unlikely to ever amount to much more than becoming a TEFL teacher :)
natasia 3 | 368
8 May 2012 #114
and we all know what Polki do when they move back home with some loser in tow, who is unlikely to ever amount to much more than becoming a TEFL teacher :)

yep ... has to be said ... he is left minding the baby while she 'relaxes' with 'friends' ... and then he gets a thick ear when she comes back the next morning, just for asking where she's been ... and that is only just the start ... and he will still have to keep buying the cigarettes, bringing the coal in, mopping the parquet floor and killing the Christmas goldfish ...

Jasonczyk, it has to be said that the dynamic will change beyond all recognition, probably, when you live in PL.
Pushbike 2 | 58
8 May 2012 #115
My brother lives in a city with more people than Warsaw.
Meathead 5 | 497
9 May 2012 #116
Some sort of explanation:

The following quote is from the article:

"Following a talk recently I was asked that if America’s healthcare system isn’t all it’s cracked up to be then which country’s system is the best? I had to think about that for a while and in the end I came to the conclusion that we still have the best when compared to everyone else but it really isn’t what is should be or could be"

It's the best because we spend the most money on health care. We do the Research and Development for the rest of the World.

ANY private health care sytem is good. America has the worst sytem because you have to pay for it.

Free service? That's no incentive.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
9 May 2012 #117
It quite specifically says thatis not true and you are misconstruing what he said.

One of the first problems with this statement is that we really have a medical system in America not ahealthcare system. We focus on 'disease and pestilence' and dealing with acute problems as they arise but paying relatively little attention to disease prevention and health promotion. We spend more per capita on healthcare or, as I have stated just now, medical care on a per capita basis than any other country in the world yet our quality of care is not necessarily better. For example our infant mortality rate at 6.9 deaths per 5,000 births is substantially higher than Japan (2.8) or France (3.9). And our life span which is currently 77.9 years has not kept up with Japan (83) or Switzerland (82).

The US has - in his his opinion - the 'best'medical care. It just that Americans die regardless because themedical system is incapable of providing the care required and wastes its expenditure on pointless tests and procedure.

So you are going to die needlessly while your excellent doctors watch helplessly. This is why the USA has a healthcare system ranked far below the rest of the western world and below many third world countries.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,441
9 May 2012 #118
Jasonczyk, it has to be said that the dynamic will change beyond all recognition, probably, when you live in PL.

the dynamic will change for sure, but calling Jason a loser because he doesn't want to teach English is a bit too far in my opinion. He seems to have a source of income, so he doesn't really have to work - how does that make him a loser?

Jason, the only problem with your wife seems to be the fact that she is homesick and she doesn't get along with your mother. Is there anyways that their relationship can be improve? She is in Poland now, then she is coming back. I am sure she wants to be in Poland because she is homesick, but she is also your wife and she knew that she would be leaving Poland behind.

I think you should both work on your partnership and it is an ongoing process. I hope your wife is not some kind of Polish spoiled princes, but a responsible woman. Maybe you both some growing up to do in a sense of thinking of what you both want vs what you can have. There is also a child. Is there a chance that she is having a postpartum depression?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
9 May 2012 #119
calling Jason a loser because he doesn't want to teach English is a bit too far in my opinion.

not to mention, most TEFL'ers, after 2 years of doing it in Poland, would jump at the chance to do something else for equal money. something with a normal schedule, salary, guaranteed and PAID vacation days, guaranteed work year round, no split shifts, etc.
jon357 70 | 19,565
9 May 2012 #120
most TEFL'ers

I don't know about 'TEFLers' but EFL professionals can earn a lot of money. Poland however isn't the best place for that.


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