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Polish-Americans as seen in the false mirror. Type A and Type B.


OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #61
Hey I like this forum because I can express myself freely here.I'm not talking like that in a real life.

We call such types "The Neostrada Kids".
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
13 Jun 2011 #62
Aha, there would be a possibility to discuss politics or religions. Only to Sponsoring Members and in hidden sections, only visible to the Sponsoring Members. This also works very well elsewhere.

Why do you wish to eliminate free public debate about religion and politics on this forum Antek?
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #63
More on Sponsorhip:

If you want to discuss religion on our_forum, the limited-access Lounge Lobby forum is available for such discussion (Supporting Membership required).

A quote from an American forum.

"Free" does not mean "cost-free", DE. There are no free lunches either.
Softsong 5 | 495
13 Jun 2011 #64
Why do you wish to eliminate free public debate about religion and politics on this forum Antek?

I doubt Antek wants to eliminate free public debate about religion and politics. They are some of the more informative and interesting topics. I feel he is more or less proposing a way to eliminate trolls who just wish to be nasty for nasty sake. And, since PF is always wanting Gold membership to help support it, why not have a special place for people with a real interest in Poland's religion and politics. It goes one step beyond a little extra PM space.

I could also see this done without the monetary requirement. There are forums that I am on that have special places for sensitive subjects so that members can be safe there to discuss.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
13 Jun 2011 #65
"Free" does not mean "cost-free", DE. There are no free lunches either.

Why do you think we should have to pay to discuss religion and politics Antek? Do you think that spouting the cliche about there being no free lunches is an explanation for why you think stifling the free exchange of ideas on the forum is a good idea? Ideas are as free as the wind and they should stay that way.
alexw68
13 Jun 2011 #66
Ideas are as free as the wind and they should stay that way.

Agree with you there. Paywalling's not the fix. But the general principle that stakeholders in a system or organisation (which is what PF is, really) should be more inclined to uphold its values in the common interest, because common interest === self interest is fine. What's not fine is that it should cost actual money - not everyone's got $20 per annum for that, and it doesn't obviate the problem of trolls with money to burn. Worse than that: once they've paid, they will think they're now entitled to talk crap.

What do you think of the moderation system here [slashdot.org]? Moderation is devolved in the most part to users, who are given mod points to rate up/rate down posts in the range of +/- 5, and you can filter on post rating (ie, filter out all trolls with -3 and below). Same principle, different 'currency'. And I think PF has the liquidity for something like this to work.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #67
Why do you wish to eliminate free public debate about religion and politics on this forum Antek?

Will you finally stop beating up your wife, Des Essientes? YES or NO?
Your cheap eristic does not work on me, and I used to read Schopenhauer when you probably had your diapers changed ;-)

Softsong has just suggested a free separate section on PF just to have the controversial threads separated and not so visible to new users. It would be good if that would be one single section for grouping the "hot" threads. Nowadays, these are spread over the whole forum. Moreover, the new posts of such kind should not be made so visible in the news feed as they are today. I'd even say the political/religion section might allow unlimited insults and derogatory language, because the users would get bored with that very soon. If you allow unlimited freedom of speech, you cannot make any exceptions, also calling Mods this or that or using profane language.With unlimited freedom of speech, Moderators are redundant and not needed.

However, the idea of Sponsorship to participate in Political/Religion subject is not only new, it simply works elsewhere on American forums. Because (1) It has proven its effectiveness (2) Gives good income to the service owner, and the political/religion disputants are the most eager to pay for expressing their views. It is not forbidden by law, either.

I really think the service owner should think about it in order not to be backwards as his colleagues from different services already do it.

SIDENOTE: Most of Polish forums with ownership in Poland explicitly forbid any racial, nationalist, hate spreading, etc. discussions because the Polish Law says so.

Come on, Alex, I paid my Sponsorship elsewhere just to have my own AVATAR ;)
poland_
13 Jun 2011 #68
Ironside, if I wished to be Polish, it would be granted in a very short period of time.

That is your common (westerners) inability to differentiate between ethnicity and citizenship. So, it is not possible to be proclaimed "Polish", you would become citizen of Poland and that is different.

Polish - meaning - relating to Poland, its inhabitants, or their language

Polish is NOT the same as Slavic.

I have never said that it is. That so called "Slavic" factor is overtly overplayed on PF, nobody cares much about it in a real life.

As a westerner with many years of experience in Central/Eastern Europe I am able to differentiate between " ethnicity and citizenship " of the Polish people.

Hey I like this forum because I can express myself freely here.I'm not talking like that in a real life.

Maybe its about time you took off the superman cape, being consequential is about being responsible for the written word, if any of my family were attacked in the future, you would be at the top of my list, as you once made vieled threats to my family, you can feel rest assured that I would hunt down the perpetrator/s for until they are caught, even if it took the rest of my life. This is what I mean about being consequential.
Piast Poland 3 | 182
13 Jun 2011 #69
The only PolAms I have met or rather PolCans are those who can speak the language. I have not seen anyone identifying with the country beyond more than commenting that they had a Polish grand parent if they did know Polish and have some sort of regular contact.

I think most of these people fall into category A, granted some have a fantasy idea of Poland. The only type B people I have met are on here.
alexw68
13 Jun 2011 #70
Come on, Alex, I paid my Sponsorship elsewhere just to have my own AVATAR ;)

Doesn't make it all right, as Stiff Little Fingers will tell you.

Two reasons for that:

1) Filtration on willingness/ability to pay is wrong on principle. Well, not entirely, by all means have it for non-essential value-adds like, as you mention, avatars - but as a passport to content, that's just bad (bear in mind the content is user-created - were not talking about an academic imprint, here)

2) Payment implies a product commensurate with what you're paying for. The technical environment (antique forum code, limited willingness/ability to introduce new features), general out-of-touchness with what open fora are for and how they work, and bizarre moderator policy of infatuation with topicality over interpersonal decency tell me PF is not worth 20 bucks.

See my post re: the Slashdot moderation system. Softsong is right that some sort of disincentive to troll is needed - but merely obscuring the sensitive topics isn't going to work because as you can see, problems often arise on a post-by-post basis.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #71
I can only tell you, Alex, if I met the owner of PF and we had a couple together, Mods here would be evicted, the Sponsorship system would be improved and it would pay the new engine, and you would be very happy to be here. The Sponsorship price might be negotiated and be on the scale of Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum ;-)

Back to our mutt... PolAms!
Harry
13 Jun 2011 #72
PolAms

My favourite type is type which claims to be be Polish but which has renounced all allegiance to Poland and to attack Poland any time they are lawfully ordered to do so!
Softsong 5 | 495
13 Jun 2011 #73
But that would be any one who emigrates from Poland and becomes an American citizen. A or B. Once again, perhaps we are confusing ethnicity with citizenship? Genes remain with the person as long as they live. A person's nationality can and does change and with it are obligations to fulfill. An American citizen born in Poland has every right to say they are ethnically Polish and to remain interested in and have a love for their country of origin. And if they maintain dual citizenship, they can also say they are Polish in the sense of nationality.

I cannot remember the last time any PolAm was ordered to attack Poland. You make a big issue of something that thus far remains very hypothetical. However, it has happened. German Americans had to fight Germans in their homeland and maybe even relatives. This is a sad situation, but no reason to smear the person on either side of the Atlantic.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
13 Jun 2011 #74
And who says Poles cannot make business ;-)

Now you sound like Mr A_m_n_s_r_t_r :)

How many born and bred in Poland Poles do you think would love it? ... think buddy think again ...
Harry
13 Jun 2011 #75
But that would be any one who emigrates from Poland and becomes an American citizen.

Precisely.

There is no legal obligation to have American citizenship in order to live in the USA, one can live there with only a green card. Poles who announce that they choose to no longer be Polish but prefer to be American are not Polish, they are American. Their children would be Polish-American but the people who choose to convert are no longer Polish-anything.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #76
Now you sound like Mr A_m_n_s_r_t_r :)

Who's that? ;-)

How many born and bred in Poland Poles do you think would love it? ... think buddy think again ...

But this is... an American Forum, based on the law of the state of NJ and the US Federal Law, and now listen "'cause I won't repeat again" - the next forum is just a click away /Vincent van Gogh/ ;-)
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
13 Jun 2011 #77
an American Forum

In that case, all this time I've been living in an American Poland (I mean virtually ofcourse :P) :D ... like New England in USA, its New Poland :P
hubabuba - | 113
13 Jun 2011 #78
Harry has answered peoples questions and provided information, that I would consider "spot on" on many occasions. I have also seen him enter into worthless debates and become argumentative

the problem with Harry is that he presents the stories taken out of his a$$ as the facts, the last time I talked to him he argued that Poland invaded Czechoslovakia in 1918, this story however will not be found in a history book, but he stood by it. The guy is hopeless, so, I dont know how providing lies as facts can be seen as spot on
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #79
Lodz, I have asked about the governing Law here very early, not after couple of years ;-)

the last time I talked to him he argued that Poland invaded Czechoslovakia in 1918, this story however will not be found in a history book, but he stood by it.

Poland invaded Czechoslovakia in 1919, what's the matter? That he made a one-year mistake?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland-Czechoslovakia_war

Now you tell me hubacośtam what you could not found.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
13 Jun 2011 #80
lol the fact that 80% of US Polonia voted Kaczynski is just scary, they shouldn't be allowed to vote!

No No NO, It's because Polonia is 80% patriotic and knows Kaczynski did everything for the good of Poland not to satisfy his EU lords.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
13 Jun 2011 #81
Maybe its about time you took off the superman cape, being consequential is about being responsible for the written word, if any of my family were attacked in the future, you would be at the top of my list, as you once made vieled threats to my family, you can feel rest assured that I would hunt down the perpetrator/s for until they are caught, even if it took the rest of my life. This is what I mean about being consequential.

I have never threatened your family or anybody else family for that matter. Have they been prominent commies? Even so, this is Poland mister pompous ass, there is no loons running free and killing random people for some obscure reasons.

You totally misunderstood context of my expression.
Saying that I must add that I do not respond well if somebody is trying to push me, I push back, regardless if that happens on PF or in a real life.

Having that cleared up - back off mister!
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #82
No No NO, It's because Polonia is 80% patriotic and knows Kaczynski did everything for the good of Poland not to satisfy his EU lords.

Meaning Poland's Poles are not patriotic? How interesting. Type A or B, Penny?
Additional question: Would you come to Poland to die for Poland if Mr Kaczyński declared war against, let us say, Ukraine?
Bzibzioh
13 Jun 2011 #83
My favourite type is type which claims to be be Polish but which has renounced all allegiance to Poland and to attack Poland any time they are lawfully ordered to do so!

We should have limits of some sorts how many times one line could be repeated by the same poster. For this particular one the stat is 32. So tedious.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
13 Jun 2011 #85
Meaning Poland's Poles are not patriotic? How interesting.

They've been corrupted by greed and ongoing pursuit of wealth. By Tusk's crusades to bring in foreign investors at any cost, sacrificing. In general Poles in eastern and southern Poland are more patriotic.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #86
Would you afford US$20 yearly to be still able write stuff like this?

*Now the story of Harry/Delphiandomine vs. PennBoy has fully become clear to me. Thank you my PM correspondent, I have my own eyes.*

Type B. OK, two of type B identified. Next, please?
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
13 Jun 2011 #87
Would you afford US$20 yearly to be still able write stuff like this?

What are you even talking about??? Being patriotic isn't trying to be in club Europe at any cost pleasing, licking your neighbors asses. It means to do what is good for your country first, you think they'd think about you before themselves? wake up. What they say and will do for you are two entirely different things, push comes to shove they leave Poland out to dry.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011 #88
Meaning you would not pay $20 per annum to support your views? It is very important since I'm making a business-plan for the PF owner right now.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
13 Jun 2011 #89
Meaning you would not pay $20 per annum to support your views?

What are trying to scam your Polish expats?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
13 Jun 2011 #90
Therefore, I guess some who are B might feel badly leaving their country deep down, and might not be that happy here. But, to save face, they will talk up the new country and put down the old country.

As much as I like you softie and you know I do, I have to disagree with this statement as it's completely built on your assumption as it's impossible to determine why people do and say what they do unless you really know them personally. I believe that every single one of them has his own reasons to act this way or another.

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