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Polish-Americans as seen in the false mirror. Type A and Type B.


Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #1
Not to say I do not have PolAm friends, specifically those who expatriated in 1980's. Not to say I do not have Romanian friends immigrating to the United States in 2000's. These real-life contacts can be divided into two groups:

A. People grateful to the new country that has given them new opportunities but new challenges, too. At the same time these people are:
1. Trying to totally melt in the new society, why not, this is what inhabitants of almost all countries expect from immigrants;
2. Trying to maintain the link with the Old Country.
3. Ambassadors for Poland, Polish culture, the Polish cause, trying to reflect the Poland's matters in the positive light

B. People who believe they were blessed by God by their immigration to US/Canada and who:
1. Feel superior to compatriots left in the Old Country
2. Despise Poland and Poland's Poles
3. Describe Poland as a hopeless, poor, backwards, and failed country
4. Live in dreams based on what Poland was when they were leaving her
5. Express the darked political/social views with total lack of understanding what has happened to Poland while they were staying in the new country.
6. Are the smartest and most successful people in the world, while Poland's Poles are dumb jackasses.

A classical phrase for the type (B) is this exclamation of a RomAm on his stay in Poland:
-- You call it HEAVY RAINING? Come to Houston, you will see what HEAVY RAINING means!
Because of course, everything is biggest in the United States, including natural disasters... (I wonder why he failed to mention Californian earthquakes... ah, he was a Houstonite, why didn't he mention floods? Certainly, floods in the region are far more dramatic than we have in Poland! ;-))

Whatever, type (A) or (B), many PolAms (I'd say, most of them) live in their own world completely torn off the Poland's reality. Yes, they subscribe to the Polish press, they watch satellite TV, they listen to Polish radio on the Internet and read Polish Internet portals. This, however, gives them about the same understanding as a Poland's Pole could gather on internal American affairs... Every American can perfectly understand that a Poland's Pole does not know anything on the US/Canada real specifics. PolAms, however, seem to be the ultimate experts in the Polish internal affairs. More! The can vote in the internal Poland's matters!

Now, let me say something. I live in Poland and am myself happy with the progress here, even if Poland cannot become economic or political superpower, at least not instantly. "Nie od razu Kraków zbudowano". Still, as for a country ruined by WWII and 44 for years of Soviet supremacy here, Poland does fine. Not all Poland's Poles agree to that! Still, Poland's Poles live here, and it is their right to decide how Poles will make our living better, together. Yes, there are enough Left-thinking, Right-thinking, Church-thinking, Centrist-thinking and any other -thinking people in Poland to stir the ideas and make Poland better or worse place to live.

Having said the above, I join the Polish Forums and see what? The "screaming" majority of PolAms behaves as if they were Type B. Is it representative or is it a false mirror in which Polams are seen?

Discuss.

Or bin this thread and ban me. I've seen enough to think that it would be a valid option.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
13 Jun 2011  #2
More! The can vote in the internal Poland's matters!

lol the fact that 80% of US Polonia voted Kaczynski is just scary, they shouldn't be allowed to vote!
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #3
Yeah, if I were given the chance to vote in US presidential elections, I'd go for Obama because I love black (clothes) and besides Obama was so convincing presenting his ideals!

About the same level of understanding of US affairs, right?
pawian 154 | 8,586
13 Jun 2011  #4
lol the fact that 80% of US Polonia voted Kaczynski is just scary, they shouldn't be allowed to vote!

I agree. It is a scandal that Poles who left the country 20 years ago have retained the right to vote. If they want to plant some morons for presidents in Poland, they must come back and live under their chosen ones` rule.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #5
Friends, let us avoid talking on the voting. As I understand, that matter has been already discussed to death, and it is not the essence of the original post.

If you need to refer to that, I'd welcome thoughts on the level of Polams' understanding of Poland's matters.

Thank you.
pawian 154 | 8,586
13 Jun 2011  #6
Friends, let us avoid talking on the voting. As I understand, that matter has been already discussed to death, and it is not the essence of the original post.

Nope. the matter of voting perfectly suits your thread.
It is just point 7 addition to your list:

B. People who believe they were blessed by God by their immigration to US/Canada and who:
6. Are the smartest and most successful people in the world, while Poland's Poles are dumb jackasses.

7. Take part in Polish elections and vote for the most harmful and corrupted guys.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #7
Nope. the matter of voting perfectly suits your thread.

Your point accepted.

Strangely enough, expats working for wellbeing of Poland here cannot vote, and "Poles" having nothing to do with Poland can vote.
Strangely enough, many Polams here describe Poland in the worst of words while many expats to Poland are satisfied with Poland here at PF.
teflcat 5 | 1,032
13 Jun 2011  #8
I've seen enough to think that it would be a valid option.

It's called having your cake and eating it.
Another common self-deception is that the whole world envies those who live in the US. I, for one chose to come to live in Poland. I didn't have to; I wasn't a hopeless failure elsewhere (just to pre-empt the inevitable comments); I wasn't forced to come. I came because I love the country and (many of) the people. Sure, I could earn more cash in my native UK but my quality of life is much higher here. Poland has a great future and I want to be part of it, regardless of the minor hardships we endure here.
Borrka 37 | 594
13 Jun 2011  #9
Very simple and easy to understand approach - every emigration is like being counted out in the first round.
Or even like throwing in the white towel.
The only exception for that makes political refugee but the "true" one.

So searching for "mental" compensation is emigrant's main drive.
Well know phenomenon be it in the US, be it among European "gast arbeiters".

BTW. already Behavis Singer wrote about "US rains are biggest in the universe" phenomenon.
EdWilczynski 3 | 98
13 Jun 2011  #10
Another common self-deception is that the whole world envies those who live in the US.

- Agreed, and envy them I do not. In fact, I can't even bring myself to holiday there.

I, for one chose to come to live in Poland. I didn't have to.

Agree and pretty much echo's my sentiments.
MediaWatch 10 | 945
13 Jun 2011  #11
Or bin this thread and ban me. I've seen enough to think that it would be a valid option.

I think most Polish Americans are in group A not B. I know I am.

If you want to know how Polish Americans feel about Poland in general, we feel the same way as Irish Americans feel about Ireland, Italian Americans feel about Italy, German Americans feel about Germany, etc.

lol the fact that 80% of US Polonia voted Kaczynski is just scary, they shouldn't be allowed to vote!

I believe you mean 80% of the 1% of Polonia voted for Kaczynski. (Was it really 80% of Polonia that voted in Polish elections, that voted for Kaczynski)??

Most Polish Americans did not vote in elections for Poland. I did not vote in any elections in Poland. I vote only in American elections.

But like most Polish Americans, I always wish the best for Poland :)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
13 Jun 2011  #12
the fact that 80% of US Polonia voted Kaczynski

Polonia in the USA comprises 10 million people most of whom are descended from Poles who left before the 2nd Republic even began. The vast majority of us do not vote in Polish elections.
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #13
strangely enough, expats working for wellbeing of Poland here cannot vote, and "Poles" having nothing to do with Poland can vote.

Take it from me, the vast majority of expats in Poland, are not interested in the slightest in PL,they are here for the package/money. Then you have the immigrants, a category some fall into on PF, married to Poles, they have families in PL, they genuinely want to build their lives here and work through the hardships, in order to carve out their place in PL and secure a better PL for their families. I refer to these people as, friends of Poland or Polish at heart.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #14
Thank you very much for your answer, MediaWatch. I actually noticed your well balanced, objective and interesting posts on PF.

warszawski, interesting view, also thank you very much for your input. Not forgetting the preceding posters.
Monia
13 Jun 2011  #15
I think most Polish Americans are in group A not B. I know I am.

I agree and I think that PF is not a representative source of polish sentiment among PolAms ( if there is one or two Poland`s haters here on PF it doesn`t mean they represent any meaningful group among USA residents of Polish descent . Most of them are proud to be Polish !!!!
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #16
there is one or two Poland`s haters

Haters, yes. At least four, though. Far more smart-asses sharing the (B) views.

In all fairness, borowik is class A, for example.

Oh, did I forget some PolOz? ;-)
MediaWatch 10 | 945
13 Jun 2011  #17
Thank you very much for your answer, MediaWatch. I actually noticed your well balanced, objective and interesting posts on PF.

Thank you Antek.

I agree and I think that PF is not a representative source of polish sentiment among PolAms ( if there is one or two Poland`s haters here on PF it doesn`t mean they represent any meaningful group among USA residents of Polish descent . Most of them are proud to be Polish !!!!

I agree. You have good and bad in all groups and....... most Polish Americans are proud of their Polish background.

From what I see, in general, most Polish Americans that are here on this forum, are here because they are interested in the land of their roots and want to see it do well. Polish Americans also want to see the Polish diaspora in other countries do well also :)
1jola 14 | 1,879
13 Jun 2011  #18
Strangely enough, expats working for wellbeing of Poland here cannot vote,

You and I have the responsibility as citizens to defend this country; expats living here do not. They can simply leave while you and I simply can't should the country be threatened. That is part of the reason that citizens vote.

BTW, weren't you in the army during martial law? How was it?
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #19
BTW, weren't you in the army during martial law? How was it?

I was in the Army in 1987-1988. Should I be called in during martial law, I'd join, too, unless I'd be already interned. It is easy to make statements now from your armchair perspective.

Ah, by the way. When I was delivering papers from my high-school to the University in Spring of 1980 (the teachers were delayed with that so I was asked to deliver my papers myself), I could read in my opinion-paper: "troublemaker" (wichrzyciel). I think it was the greatest compliment I have ever got from anybody ;-)

Regarding voting: Can American Irish, Italian or German vote in affairs of their Old Countries? You said expats could leave Poland at any time but PolAms, PolCans and PolOz have alreade left Poland many years ago!
Ironside 47 | 9,587
13 Jun 2011  #20
PolAm f

that is the term reserved for peeps born in the USA.
And we have them all, pretty and ugly, wise and stupid, mean and nice and all combinations .......

7. Take part in Polish elections and vote for the most harmful and corrupted guys.

What a BS!
Either you are against right to vote for polish citizens living abroad or not.
Such reasons make your claim seems to be politically motivated.

I refer to these people as, friends of Poland or Polish at heart.

Surly you don't mean that dope-domino and his mentor Harry!They are category unto themselves!
Themistocles would agree!
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #21
Surly you don't mean that dope-domino and his mentor Harry!

What's wrong with Harry? I could not really see anything very wrong in his posts?
Let's us not go adrift, Ironside, please.
Pinching Pete - | 558
13 Jun 2011  #22
You and I have the responsibility as citizens to defend this country; expats living here do not.

Right, Right .. but do you know who would help you defend your country (should you need it )?.. That's right , the very people you guys criticize constantly: The PolAm. I know I would help out.
pawian 154 | 8,586
13 Jun 2011  #23
Either you are against right to vote for polish citizens living abroad or not.

Yes, I am for lifting the privilige for Poles who stay abroad longer than 1 year.

Such reasons make your claim seems to be politically motivated.

You are talking like some communist dictator, e.g., Gomułka. :):):) Kto za tym stoi? Who is behind that? :):):):):):)
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #24
The PolAm. I know I would help out.

Have you read about Type A and Type B?
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #25
expats living here do not. They can simply leave while you and I simply can't should the country be threatened. That is part of the reason that citizens vote.

1jola, I just want to raise an important point here, a expat is someone that has been sent to work in Poland, normally they have no association with Poland, other than the company/government they are working for. If an expat decides to stay in Poland at the end of their contract, he/she then becomes a immigrant, like the rest of us, or as more commonly referred to in business circles, locally employed.

Most, immigrants in Poland would fight tooth and nail against an aggressor, who attempts to take their land or property away from them. There would be no running away.
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #26
For some with weak memory, re-reading "Pan Wołodyjowski" could help. Mr Ketling was exactly the type described by warszawski.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassling-Ketling_of_Elgin
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
13 Jun 2011  #27
Mr Ketling

And he married the chick with the moustache too!
OP Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
13 Jun 2011  #28
PolAm Type B talking, eh? Krzysia? Moustache?
What about his death for Poland?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
13 Jun 2011  #29
You didn't think Sienkiewicz's moustache theme was funny in the Trilogy? Well I did and I was glad that Pan Wołodyjowski didn't marry her also because Sienkiewicz said she got fat. As for your "types" I do not fall into either A nor B. I am a third generation Polish-American that has come to this forum to learn Polish history. I do not vote in Polish elections, nor do any of my extended family. I do not look down upon Poles. I have called you a jackass Antek but that is my judgement of you based upon your erratic posts and your silly jumping to conclusions. I certainly do not see you as being representative of Poland, nor are you one of the Poles with whom I would like to communicate, namely the intellectuals of Poland.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
13 Jun 2011  #30
B.

You are here since March, 2011 ... I'm here since the inception of this forum ... I might arguably be the first Pole (living and born in Poland) to be a member here ...

Since the time I came here, there have been one thing consistent ... the "fishing" as they might call it in USA. Its about who takes the helpless Polish girl and gives her a better life or a better love ... or something in between/something similar. You don't trust me? Go take a peek in the archives.

Its been a warfare. When I first came here I found a thread where a war was going on with the topic being "interracial dating". At that time I used another nick name (Lonestranger), I used to be more open about me, my real name was released, even my real picture in one of the threads. While I have my personal believe in freedom to choose in love, I had been in a relationship interracially myself ... so obviously I took the side in pro. The page probably still holds the record of the longest and the most fastest growing thread in PF history.

Since then and now, very less changed. This is by far the most attractive discussion, and it never gets stale somehow. The majority of the people interacting in here are often expatriate Poles, or other Europeans ... or the Western world ... or a few guys from the Eastern world who somehow stumble upon a Polish (interestingly enough, 98% times its the Polish ladies ... once in a blue moon its a Polish man too for a change).

The interest in Poland is almost exactly as you mentioned ... but there are other elements in it as well. Not a lot of Poles here, although I was told that there is and many log in from Poland ... but you can log in from Poland without being a Polish as well, can't you?

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