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Polish or American Education?


delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
6 Aug 2011 #61
It is, and it's only going to get worse when they cut some of the subjects.
plgrl
6 Aug 2011 #62
I think the whole concept of matura is flawed

Do you mean that there should be no exam or what? Every country has it's matura-like exam: SAT (USA), A-levels (UK), Abitur (Germany)
OP patrick 6 | 113
6 Aug 2011 #63
I keep seeing these posts with the suggestion that kids have to go to a private school in the States to get a decent education. It's been 25 years since I was in high school, so I don't want to assume things are like in 'the good ol' days'. However, I went to private Catholic school for 12 years and really didn't see the advantage comparing with my friends from the public schools.

In the big city, maybe. Bit we will probably live in a small city/town (100,000) and from what I've read the schools are excellent.

Any insight?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
6 Aug 2011 #64
Do you mean that there should be no exam or what? Every country has it's matura-like exam: SAT (USA), A-levels (UK), Abitur (Germany)

There are better ways to award a qualification - in my view, the "all or nothing" approach of having one final exam is utterly flawed.
Monia
6 Aug 2011 #65
I tutor Polish high school kids in math, physics, biology and chemistry,

quote=Dommie B.]Polish secondary schools do not prepare students for American university, especially in Math and sciences. Emphasis, like other have said, is on rote learning, and not reasoning and problem solving. I tutor Polish high school kids in math, physics, biology and chemistry, and I'm appalled by how these subjects are taught in Polish schools.[/quote]

I went to a Jesuit prep school,

No Polish student would seek tutoring from you , if you have finished your education somwhere else except Poland with the language skills exception , of course .But mathand other science subjects , you must be kidding me .

Secondary school students in Poland possess , on average, much higher level of their knowledge consistent with the program (of course it depends on the individual person), than American students.

If we are talking about leaving exams in Polish high schools and extended levels of them which can give a student the opportunity to go to university I have to tell that the average child from school in the U.S. would not be able to cope with them ( especially in match , physics, chemistry or biology ).

I have got close friends who's parents have been diplomats for many years in the U.S.( so , as you can presume they have attended good schools there ) and when they returned, they went to Polish high schools , but to lower classes, because they could not cope with the level of the material contained in Polish schoolbooks and they have had problems with the learning system which required huge amount of homework . Then he went back to USA to study at a university (a good university - George Town), he was not admitted to any Polish university, because of lack of required points and now returned to Poland and can not find work. No one wants to hire him for this reason that employers complain that such education is not adequate to the Polish. And they don`t trust such qualifications

I am talking here and my previous posts about the Polish educational system, that is good enough and gives opportunities to help any student to study, not about pathology .

There is a lot of pathological families whose children follow the wrong path of life , like anywhere in the world , so this is not a prevailing situation in Poland .

However, when these expenditures strictly on science, which are at 0.06% of GDP, forecasts are not the best and Polish scientists will continue to flee from the Polish educational institutions , because the system does not allow for research, scientific publications and overall personal developement . As one poster mentioned , what scientist would stay here with salary about 2000 zł if he had got the opportunity to work abroad with salary 4 times higher .

It is Georgetown , of course .
nunczka 8 | 458
6 Aug 2011 #66
's been 25 years since I was in high school, so I don't want to assume things are like in 'the good ol' days'.

Patrick. Times have changed in the States in the last 50 years Up until the 80s Public schools were very close to par with the Catholic schools.. The public school system had good teachers and the schools functioned in orderly fashion.. After integration the Public school system went to hell;. The Quality of teachers diminished. Violence was out of control. Whites pulled their kids out of the public school system.That was the start of the end of our Public School system
plgrl
6 Aug 2011 #67
There are better ways to award a qualification - in my view, the "all or nothing" approach of having one final exam is utterly flawed.

Could you be more specific? What are the better ways? And what do you mean by "all or nothing" approach?

(a good university - George Town), he was not admitted to any Polish university, because of lack of required points and now returned to Poland and can not find work. No one wants to hire him for this reason that employers complain that such education is not adequate to the Polish.

Are you kidding? What Polish university gives an adequate education for a job? I thought it's a matter of a proper intership not an education. Could you also say what kind of trade was it?

Another question is how come he wasn't searching for a job in the USA where salaries are much better? There's something smelly about your story.

but to lower classes, because they could not cope with the level of the material contained in Polish schoolbooks

When a person form Poland is accepted to American high school he is also send to a lower class just to catch up with the language and programme differences. There's nothing unusual about that.
Monia
6 Aug 2011 #68
a job in the USA where salaries are much better? There's something smelly about your story.

He wants to live here ,because not always money is the issue . He has got family here and his wife has got her ambitions too. They don`t like to live in USA . Why does it surprise you ? Do you think that your country is some kind of heaven, where everybody wants to live . You live by your dreams and let others live theirs .
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
6 Aug 2011 #69
The public school system had good teachers and the schools functioned in orderly fashion.

After integration the Public school system went to hell

So in fact you're saying that only some of the public schools were good. The white ones. Your comments stink of racism.
nunczka 8 | 458
6 Aug 2011 #70
Call it what you want.. It's a fact
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
6 Aug 2011 #71
the next person to post in Polish in this thread gets a suspension
beckski 12 | 1,617
23 Aug 2011 #72
I promise to post only in English. Although I'd love to know how to post in Polish;)

I say kill two birds with one stone. Start off by having the children attend a private Polish school, located within the United States.
lalami 1 | 5
23 Aug 2011 #73
I've worked in some primary/secondary schools in Poland (and Turkey), state and private institutions, and additionally had an opportunity to visit a lot more (another job), and if I had kids and were faced with this 'which education' dilemma about any two countries...

The general education system functioning in a given country doesn't have to be a major factor. First, I would try and consult local teachers whose recommendation I felt I could trust – and it would be a long chat.

I don't want to say I wouldn't trust a parent's opinion, but parents can be happy with a school for many reasons, and most of these reasons may tell me nothing about the school:

- teachers are really doing a god job and parents can appreciate that, even if their child is not a top achiever; parents are aware of problems that arise at school/in class – that's the only convincing recommendation

- they have the kind of child who would be doing well (academically) in any conditions – self-motivated, curious, smart, talented; and what if mine wasn't?

- their child is well-behaved, maybe even extremely shy and quiet, which means parents are never going to hear about any trouble caused by their offspring, which in turn will make them think that it's a wonderful school; OK, and if mine was a bit wild...

- a child causes some problems, parents are not interested in dealing with the situation themselves, but they also succeed in pressuring the principal/teachers and making them ignore this problem - parents are happy because they have it 'their way'

(typical of private schools, especially after the crisis – private schools have never been extremely popular in Poland, most Poles, even if they complain about education and schools, don't consider them so bad that it would be necessary to send their child to a private school, especially that they are not associated with good quality, actually quite the opposite - that's stereotyping, but quite a lot of these private schools were set up when economy was booming, now schools don't want to lose the customers that they have, there are fewer enrollments, and more children leave anyways as their parents can't afford it any more);

- parents are unaware of the problems that exist in their child's class (not caused by their child but probably influencing his/her schooling) because the school doesn't want to risk losing customers (private schools)

- kids come back home from school around 6pm or later, because they participate in extra activities at school or a school bus takes them to various places in town (swimming pool, cinema), which means that parents have more time for themselves, and less time for ... – these parents are sometimes happy that school is doing the parenting, while they can do something else, they are very often the ones who don't want to hear, not to mention deal with problems if any arise (private schools)

A flawed education system wouldn't totally discourage me because I've noticed that even in countries where the ministry of education imposes weird syllabuses, exams, demands on students/teachers, it's always possible to find institutions where teachers/principals have their students' best interest in mind – and it's not limited to doing well at exams and following the syllabuses.

I could complain a lot about education in Poland (generally, everything could be better, starting with school-leaving exams), but I feel like focusing on the positives:)

Lots of things have changed since I graduated in 1990s.

1) Schools adapt to the modern times:
- foreign languages are taught from the very beginning (special program launched around 2006 by the ministry to introduce English in grade 1; not sure about kindergartens)
- there is a new subject that I didn't have at school and I'm really jealous – how to set up and run own business (and related topics: taxes, offices, marketing, etc.)

- more and more technology at schools
- more and more teachers are aware of modern methodology, most kids are not taught the same way that we were - but I'm afraid universities are most resistant to these novelties

At the same time, I'm happy that students continue to be taught all these things/skills that can't be monetized straightaway, but which certainly enrich them, and in some cases not only in some spiritual elusive way. Someone mentioned studying poetry as useless, but a copywriter-to-be might benefit from it.

2)Teachers take advantage of new opportunities, such as:

- student exchanges (mostly within Europe, but our school also had an exchange program with Brazil)
- projects made possible with EU funding - more extra-curricular activities, or extra classes for students with special needs, especially weaker ones; but also refurbishment and construction projects (e.g. Orlik 2012 – football pitches)

Another important thing – it's not just schools in big cities that benefit.

If I had to choose a school without consulting a teacher who works there, I would like to see these new opportunities being exploited by the teachers/students.

Some schools specialize in some form of activities, not necessarily officially, they might just have some enthusiastic teachers who organize drama groups, sports competitions, sports clubs – it's good to ask what they are proud of and what talented staff they have.

Private schools have this impressive extra-curricular offer by default, sometimes value for money seems great (look at how many languages they can learn, how many hours a week, plus other activities - how much would you have to pay for all these somewhere else, including transportation costs?) but there might be lots of hidden issues, not to mention the obvious problems (it's paid, kids compete for gadgets, and they don't learn how to communicate with people from outside of their social group/class).
pawian 173 | 12,655
28 Aug 2011 #74
(special program launched around 2006 by the ministry to introduce English in grade 1; not sure about kindergartens)

Kindergartens are not comprised in the official curriculum yet. English classes are offered by private schools, average cost per a semester - 170 zlotys. Two 30-minute classes a week.

The general education system functioning in a given country doesn't have to be a major factor. First, I would try and consult local teachers whose recommendation I felt I could trust - and it would be a long chat.

I agree fully. Nothing really depends on the system, it is the particular teacher/teachers who is/are going to teach your kids.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
1 May 2012 #75
Mind you the schooling system is much harder in America than say for example in Europe country such as London. LOL YOUR A FUCCIN IDIOT. You must be Polish. Maybe you need to go back to school.

HAHA other way around silly boy. The level is 3 to 4 grades behind Poland. Polish 8th grade grads know the same or more math, history and science than American high school grads. Only American universities are better and that's a fact (money)
Questionable123
1 May 2012 #76
Your wrong. America school system/University is a much harder program to obtain a degree. One is required to complete much more classes/ courses to obtain a degree in whatever field they choose compared to Europe countries such as London. And I'm pretty sure London as part of one of Europe countries is way better than Poland in the quality of living and currency/wages are higher. Why is that many Poland individual claim to have a masters degree in something but are stuck working at a grocery store? lol Because your degree means shiet thats why. What's the point of having that title behind your name when your country is so ****** and have no jobs for you?

Get your facts right. Maybe you should do some googling. ;)
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
1 May 2012 #77
Questionable123

You are truly an ignorant nitwit who gets his information from guessing and assuming. The OECD's comprehensive world education ranking report, PISA, is out. Find out how each country compares...

guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
PISA Programme for International Student Assessment ranks Polish high school students 12th in the world, US 14th.. read.
Questionable123
1 May 2012 #78
I never said anything about America RANKING HIGHEST IN MATH, SCIENCE, reading in comparison to the UK. WHAT I SAID WAS IT IS HARDER TO OBTAIN A DEGREE FROM UNI IN AMERICA. OUR UNIV ARE MUCH HARDER FOR STUDENTS TO COMPLETE AND OBTAIN A DEGREE IN. WE ARE REQUIRED TO TAKE MORE CLASSES/PROGRAMS IN ORDER TO BE QUALIFIED IN OUR PROFESSIONAL FIELD AND PRACTICE. It is much easier to obtain a degree in the UK through UNI. Students take less classes/program is much shorter in the UK to obtain a degree in field in comparison to America. There's your difference. Next time before you decide to comment read throughly about what was said.

So your little article means nothing to me =)
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
1 May 2012 #79
I travel a lot I've been to Europe (London) over 4 times each time for months at a time. I've also been to Asia etc

London is a dump. Its not a country, either.

Try Berlin, Rome, Prague, Amsterdam, Dublin, Madrid or Vienna.

PISA Programme for International Student Assessment ranks Polish high school students 12th in the world, US 14th.. read.

The Finns have completely revamped their education system and have been flying up that table. The rest of europe should be following their example.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
1 May 2012 #80
The Finns have completely revamped their education system and have been flying up that table.

What was the reason for their success?
4 eigner 2 | 831
1 May 2012 #81
PennBoy HAHA other way around silly boy. The level is 3 to 4 grades behind Poland. Polish 8th grade grads know the same or more math, history and science than American high school grads. Only American universities are better and that's a fact (money)

You're talking ancient history, man. Your education system in Poland sucks (nowadays) and your kids are just as dumb as any other kids. I had a chance to mingle with your people for quite some time and I speak from my personal experience.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
1 May 2012 #82
Finns have completely revamped their education system and have been flying up that table.

Same school same teachers teaching all students together. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8601207.stm
Obviously it's working.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
1 May 2012 #83
What was the reason for their success?

This article sums up it up more succinctly than I ever could.

theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
1 May 2012 #84
It's OBVIOUS why students score higher on these tests in certain countries. It all comes down to one thing. PREPPING. These kids are prepped to take these tests and score high. Finland does a good job of prepping it's students. Time spent prepping for standardized tests takes time from more important areas of study. But hey. To each their own.

You can spend an entire school year studying for one test but does that mean you are actually smarter?
Alligator - | 261
1 May 2012 #85
in Europecountry such as London

Are you sure you went to school?

Maybe you need to go back to school.

The pot calls the kettle black...

America school system/University is a much harder program to obtain a degree. One is required to complete much more classes/ courses to obtain a degree in whatever field they choose compared to Europe countries such as London

Thats why you ditched school...
unixpol
1 May 2012 #86
Why is that no tourist visit your country?

America entertainment industry is broadcast all over the world and many people from these country are big fan of America Tv.

But you sir

I really can't think why (sarcasm) but I suspect that his "superior" "American" education was actually completed in a... er... "subcontinent" country. What do you think, RN? :)
4 eigner 2 | 831
30 Oct 2012 #87
Typically the high school level of Eastern Europe is comparable to 2-4 years at an American college/university

excuse me? explain it please. I hope, you're not trying to say that our universities and colleges are on the same level as high schools in eastern Europe?

education-portal.com/articles/List_of_the_20_Best_Universities_and_Colleges_in_the_World.html
Alexander78
30 Oct 2012 #88
Yes in many ways they certainly are. Americans that have graduated from universities can't answer basic questions concerning the rest of the world. They can't tell you the difference between the Baltics and the Balkans. History, Geography, Science, and Math are serious weaknesses in the American educational system. I know many Polish and Eastern Europeans in the last 20 years that have gone to university in the USA. Most completed similar class work when they were in the 6th grade. And in those classes the American students were struggling while the students from Europe were breezing through the course work because it was fairly simple. It doesn't matter what a website listing top universities tells you if the reality in the real world is different.
ilmc 4 | 136
30 Oct 2012 #89
he's right american public education is always rated at the bottom of the developed world.
a.k.
30 Oct 2012 #90
but don't even know where Poland is located or it's capital city.

Not everyone knows what's the capital of Trinidad and Tobago even in Poland :)

Typically the high school level of Eastern Europe is comparable to 2-4 years at an American college/university.

Who told you that?! I think you are way off the facts. Typical Polish liceum graduate is 18/19 while in the USA high schoolers are year younger, right? And that's what makes the difference. I, as a Polish person, refuse to believe that Poles on average are better educated than Americans. You just hang around in such circles that's why you think so. 2-3 languages? Don't kid.

Americans in general feel that everyone wants to come live in the USA because the USA is #1

That's the only sentence of yours I agree with. And I must say it's very annoying, especially when they get ofended when someone doesn't share their enthusiasm about America. I don't mean criticising, it's rude everywhere in the world to criticise a host country, but the mere lack of awe. Nothing can rage an American more than saying you'd prefer some Western European country over America. Somehow they cannot accept it. Why?

I know many Polish and Eastern Europeans in the last 20 years that have gone to university in the USA. Most completed similar class work when they were in the 6th grade. And in those classes the American students were struggling while the students from Europe were breezing through the course work because it was fairly simple.

I wish Polish universities were so good as American ones... that is the better ones. Everywhere in the world there are micky mouse degrees - it's the specific of our times, when education has became a business. I don't know what's the level of provincial bottom universities/colleges in the USA, but note that the brightest, biggest minds of the science world want to work at American universities, why? To teach dumbs? A knowledge of a 6th grader? Certainly not.

Ok, I used to watch "Teen Moms" and I've noticed that some of them who were preparing for college have ridiculously easy homeworks from maths... but it was just a glipse, and I'm pretty sure they did not attending any top college.


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