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Polish or American Education?


Magdalena 3 | 1,837
5 Aug 2011 #31
Which in Poland is extremely poor.

Exactly how can you tell?
Marynka11 4 | 675
5 Aug 2011 #32
it's the general level of educaion. Which in Poland is extremely poor.

I don't think Polish education is extremely poor. It's just different than American. I would say the American students acquire more skills and when it comes to knowledge it's just general concepts, the Polish students learn more knowledge and it's more in-depth. The college classes 101for example biology, chemistry, physics, etc. in America is just high school material in Poland.
takachclan - | 6
5 Aug 2011 #33
This is something we re-evaluate every year... I am British (used to their ed system), and my husband is American and that is where our 'base' is. We have talked extensively with friends who are/have educated kids in foreign countries. We have decided that we probably (depending on my husbands contract options) will keep our kids in the Polish school until they are about 11, but probably no later. Our kids are at a private Polish school and everyone loves it. We do appreciate that they are at a private school here in Poland (which we pay for) and we would never be able to afford a private school in USA. They seem to be getting as good education at the younger levels here in Poland as they would back in America, but with additional benefits. They are at a preschool which is attached to a primary school and the preschool is run as a school with lessons and interaction with with primary school teachers for subjects tailored to their age. My oldest son in class zero this year, not only studied subjects, but they also included cooking once a week, and sewing lessons. The school only have real plates (not plastic or paper), glasses, knives and forks for the kids starting from the age of three (and for special occasions they put lit candles on the tables), they are taught manners, cleaning up and thanking the kitchen staff for their meal. They even brush their teeth after every meal. We are fortunate in that the staff that run the school are 'modern' in their thinking and encourage the kids to 'think outside the box', not just memorize a bunch of facts. From the age of three the school take the kids on a bus to swimming lessons etc., and about once every 6 weeks they have a school field trip tailored to their current theme. My oldest has been at the preschool for 4 years, and has not visited the same place twice yet. The last trips before the end of school this year, they took the 3y, 4y, 5y & 6year old classes to a park (about an hour away) where they played, studied plants etc. and then they got to cook kielbasa over an open fire (arranged by the park), and my 6 year old got to go on a 2 mile bike ride through the forest to the lake and then they went swimming. These are well supervised by the school and no parents are required to go (although they are welcome, and I do go sometimes work permitting).

These are all things that they would be missing out on if we were back in America. In America my youngest would be at a daycare with just supervised play all day (he would have 2 hours of preschool 'lessons' from Sept at the daycare and 3 hours of part time kindergarten the following school year). The school system is very good where our house is in America (although due to lack of funds they don't start full time until 1st grade), but because of the whole 'liability' and 'sueing' issues they would not be doing any of this extra stuff 'just in case something happens'. They are also cutting back more and more every year on sports etc., due to lack of funds. We have an American homeschool program we are suposed to be doing with the kids every night, but most nights we don't. Now and then we will pull it out and 'test' the kids and they are keeping right up with our local American school system education wise, and when we visit back to the States our kids are pretty much ahead of their cousins who are unfortunte to not be in such good school systems in America.

Here is the 'but' for us. Our kids being American/British could go easily anywhere to study or work later in life, and unfortunately to give them the biggest choice of options we feel that it would make it easier for them to be studying in English from about 11/12 on, once all the science and technical work starts. This are just our personal thoughts at the moment and maybe we will change our minds when the kids approach this age.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
5 Aug 2011 #34
We are fortunate in that the staff that run the school are 'modern' in their thinking

Which school, out of curiosity?

(I'm in Poznan too, and have never heard of such glowing praise towards a school in the city itself)
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #35
On 25-26 August 2010 in Paris took place the XXIV International Championship Games, and Mathematical Logic. Poles once again proved that they are the world's leading winning 8 medals out of 24 .

"Eight medals in various age categories shows that the Polish students have great intellectual potential. On the 24 winning places, we have won eight medals, whch is an unprecedented success against competitors from other countries. Polish team won one third of all medals. .

Comparing such achievements with Poland`s GDP per capita standing only shows the excellent merits of Poles .

This proves, that in spite of the fact that Poland is comparatively still a poor country and the state`s expeditures on education in Poland are one of the lowest among all EU countries , that teachers and students excel far better than they are expected by Poland`s economical position , which means that the system works wonders .

This also proves that Poles work harder and score better and the educational system stands higher than USA system, which potentials are way beyond Poland`s .
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
5 Aug 2011 #36
On 25-26 August 2010 in Paris took place the XXIV International Championship Games, and Mathematical Logic. Poles once again proved that they are the world's leading winning 8 medals out of 24 .

This also proves that Poles work harder and score better

I know one of the organisers of the Polish contingent. He and a significant number of the entrants would not be considered Polish at all by a sizeable percentage of regular posters here.
grubas 12 | 1,391
5 Aug 2011 #37
Oh,of course the Poles are so ******* stupid that they can never achieve anything.
southern 75 | 7,096
5 Aug 2011 #38
Poles get high scores because they are academicallye intelligent and experienced in cheating they know how to beat an exam.Greek students get the lowest scores due to low academic intelligence.However in real life situations Gredks are more cunning than Poles the Poles lack practical intelligence aka common sense.
pgtx 30 | 3,158
5 Aug 2011 #39
you mean that Greeks are more street smart than Poles?
southern 75 | 7,096
5 Aug 2011 #40
Yes,they are more street smart because they are natural psychologists.They can sell they are good in trade depicting the other side's needs keep a shop etc.
plgrl
5 Aug 2011 #41
I have a question to Americans: when kids in the USA learn on math lessons adding/subtraction/multiplication/division of fractions?

He and a significant number of the entrants would not be considered Polish at all

Who they were then?
pgtx 30 | 3,158
5 Aug 2011 #42
when kids in the USA learn on math lessons adding/subtraction/multiplication/division of fractions?

pre-school
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #43
Poles are the best informatitians in the world .

Merida, Mexico - XVIII International Olympiad in Informatics, which was won by Filip Wolski ( the Third High School in Gdynia). Thus, he wins the title "Best IT in the World." Likewise, he won the gold medal in the previous editions, which were held in Athens.

The United States. Boston, USA - Tomasz Czajka from Stalowa Wola wins the tournament computer for students from around the world.

USA, Las Vegas - Przemyslaw Dębiak. ranks second in TopCoder competitions

San Antonio, Texas, USA - a team of students at the Jagiellonian University, draws a second place in the team programming .

Certainly , we are not a country with the highest level of civilization. We lack resources, advanced technologies. But we have minds and also young, hungry of knowledge, well-educated people, who are not demoralized. They want to learn. There are no better computer students than students of the third and fourth year of Polish universities. Not the Chinese, the Indians are not sought after by major corporations, but the Poles.

That`s the reason why the world biggest corporations employ Poles; not because Poles are stupid and cheat on exams , lol . They are the best . Remark for you Southern and JonnyM .
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
5 Aug 2011 #44
Poles are the best informatitians in the world .

can u please discuss the education system and not the achievments of a select few.
poor don
5 Aug 2011 #45
I'll tell you one big difference. American academics get properly paid, so they spend their time in their universities, studying and improving their expertise. Polish academics are paid so badly that they have to work in several places to make ends meet. I'm the low man on the totem pole at my uni, but my pay isnt much less than older hands. 1900PLN/month. I'm ready for unbelieving replies, but it's the truth.
pip 10 | 1,661
5 Aug 2011 #46
when kids in the USA learn on math lessons adding/subtraction/multiplication/division of fractions?
pre-school

no way. they are only being introduced to numbers and letters in preschool.

I'll tell you one big difference. American academics get properly paid, so they spend their time in their universities, studying and improving their expertise. Polish academics are paid so badly that they have to work in several places to make ends meet. I'm the low man on the totem pole at my uni, but my pay isnt much less than older hands. 1900PLN/month. I'm ready for unbelieving replies, but it's the truth.

Perhaps it is time for you to look for a new job. If you are in Warsaw there are a few private schools that would probably love to have you teach.
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #47
can u please discuss the education system and not the achievments of a select few.

Yes I know, but how come you did not remove comments about cheating as a method of success . I wanted to prove that cheating would be impossible in such intl . competitions, but still Poles win them around the world
poor don
5 Aug 2011 #48
Yes I know, but how come you did not remove comments about cheating as a method of success .

Like it or not cheating is a deeply ingrained practise in the Polish education system. Please don't accuse me of being anti-Polish, I'm not. It's the simple, unfortunate truth.

please stick to one username. it makes things easier all round. thanks.

Perhaps it is time for you to look for a new job. If you are in Warsaw there are a few private schools that would probably love to have you teach

I have several jobs and, because of that, I earn pretty good money (I couldn't possibly live on 1900 gross).
I really want to teach at university and would do it for even less money. I know, there's one born every minute! I want to help students first and foremost because I believe teaching is a vocation. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #49
Like it or not cheating is a deeply ingrained practise in the Polish education system. Please don't accuse me of being anti-Polish, I'm not. It's the simple, unfortunate truth.

But first tell me who you are , Southern , is it you ?

Now, in Poland , you can only take anonymous tests on all levels of education ( public ) , do you know that Southern ? Cheating is impossible .
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
5 Aug 2011 #50
Poles are stupid and cheat on exams , lol . They are the best . Remark for you Southern and JonnyM .

Cheating is unfortunately widespread in the Polish education system - it is expected and part of school and university life. I've even heard lawyers and unfortunately more than one doctor admitting that they'd cheated during their studies. It is only themselves that they compromise.
poor don
5 Aug 2011 #51
Cheating is impossible .

You are deluded if you believe that. I work in the Polish education system; you do not. I am not who you think I might be. I am posting under another name on this thread because I do not wish to be identified by my colleagues.
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #52
Why do you not change the thread or live the PF for good , go to your buddy who reigns on the other friendly forum .

please stick to the topic. poor don is in fact... poor don. ok.
poor don
5 Aug 2011 #53
Typically you resort to spite when confronted with a view which opposes yours. God help the Polish legal system. I'll let you have the last, no doubt nasty, word.
Monia
5 Aug 2011 #54
please stick to the topic. poor don is in fact... poor don. ok.

How come he refers to legal issues ?
Marynka11 4 | 675
5 Aug 2011 #55
I have a question to Americans: when kids in the USA learn on math lessons adding/subtraction/multiplication/division of fractions?

Here is what I gathered from my son's education so far:
They are supposed to count up to 100 by the end of Kindergarten (0 Grade). They are also familiarized the concept of addition and subtraction, but there is no pressure on knowing anything particular.

By the end of first grade they have to know all addition and subtraction facts up to 20 and are familiarized with adding and subtracting higher numbers.

By the end of second grade they are supposed to know how to add and subtract any number and are familiarized with fractions, multiplication, and division concepts.

So I'm guessing they will focus on fractions, multiplication and division in the third grade.
elysiann 2 | 5
6 Aug 2011 #56
Interesting (albeit complicated) topic. While I cannot speak for the Polish education, I will try to provide my viewpoint on the American education system as best I can.

People have mentioned that all Americans have opportunity to higher education. A simple answer is yes, this is true. Of course, there are things to consider. First of all, the quality of American primary/secondary education can be wildly disparate depending on a number of features including the type of school one attends (public vs. private, different ideologies like Montessori, etc), the state regulations, and the overall socio-economic status of the area. The financial difficulties in America are having a huge impact on education in many ways, and again, some areas will continue to suffer more than others. So any advantages and disadvantages listed in this forum will depend on where the student is attending. I would be happy to give examples for any of this, ranging from statistics to policies to anecdotes of teachers and students... but I won't bore you with the details unless you want them. :) These factors also shape how likely you are to get into a 'good' college/university, and the likelihood of getting a scholarship to help pay for college.

For those of you interested in American education: What I would recommend that you do is look closely at any area you are considering. How severely has the area been affected by the recession? Would you be able to find and keep a job there? If you can't, or you don't like the education in your district, would you be able to sell your house and move? Along with good private schools, would you have the option of different charter schools, and how difficult are they to get into?

(Also, if you can, set aside money for your children for a college fund. Accessible post-secondary education here comes at a cost, and the government supports students less and less as cuts need to be made. Right now, very well educated, hard-working students are coming out of school with large amounts of debt and facing an unhealthy job market. If your kids don't go to college, then they'll have the starter-funds to become independent that much faster!)

This is not meant to be discouraging. If you started this thread to establish where kids can get the greatest advantage in education, this should help with America at least. If you are wealthy/thorough/resourceful enough and can choose your location and school, your children will get good (if not great) education.
tygrys 3 | 296
6 Aug 2011 #57
They cannot.

But they do.

Was you attending Polish school?

Yes I was
Dommie B.
6 Aug 2011 #58
One thing you have to think about is where your kids will be attending university. Polish universities are crap compared to American ones, so you'll probably want your kids to go to college in the States. Polish secondary schools do not prepare students for American university, especially in Math and sciences. Emphasis, like other have said, is on rote learning, and not reasoning and problem solving. I tutor Polish high school kids in math, physics, biology and chemistry, and I'm appalled by how these subjects are taught in Polish schools. If your kids go to Polish school and want to make it an an American University, they will require LOTS of tutoring in these subjects.

Actually, Polish schools are lousy even at preparing kids for Polish universities. The goal of secondary education in Poland is to prepare kids to take the Matura exam. Theoretically, at least, the Matura is a test of whether your ready to go to university. Practically, though, it is worthless. Passing the Matura exam in no way indicates how prepared you are to study further, either in Poland or elsewhere.

If I were in your position, I'd definitely send my kids to a good private school in the States. I went to a Jesuit prep school, and I couldn't have gotten better preparation for university, which in my case was Jesuit as well. No one on this planet knows more about educating young people than the Jesuits.
plgrl
6 Aug 2011 #59
But they do.

They can't because the final exams are send and check outside the school not by the teachers of the same school.

Yes I was

Where? In Poland?

Actually, Polish schools are lousy even at preparing kids for Polish universities. The goal of secondary education in Poland is to prepare kids to take the Matura exam. Theoretically, at least, the Matura is a test of whether your ready to go to university. Practically, though, it is worthless. Passing the Matura exam in no way indicates how prepared you are to study further, either in Poland or elsewhere.

Unfortunately it's the effect of the botched scholastic reform. Before 2005 matura exam was more difficult and additionaly a person needed to pass separate exams at a univercity the person was applying to.

However the OP is not considering to send his children to Polish school. It's just a continuation of a disccusion started in another thread about a sense of teaching all subject in schools.
gumishu 11 | 5,335
6 Aug 2011 #60
Before 2005 matura exam was more difficult and additionaly a person needed to pass separate exams at a univercity the person was applying to.

I think the whole concept of matura is flawed


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