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31 year old Polish man causes accident under influence of alcohol and kills 8


Marsupial - | 907
29 Aug 2017  #91
Over reporting on absolutely everything has made me totally indifferent. How many times a day and how many tragedies can i take in and give a toss about? I just view it as natural selection now, the law of the jungle. It turns out the frog is fine, it was sleeping.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
29 Aug 2017  #92
BBC's Horizon this evening might be of interest to some on here.
Bieganski 17 | 906
29 Aug 2017  #93
crime of a guy who gets in an articulated lorry while drunk and kills eight people.

Exactly. A guy. It could have been a gal too. It could have been any nationality. Therefore the only crime I see in this thread is your and your cohort's latest defamation of Poles by attempting to equate being Polish with intoxicated driving and manslaughter.

No harm in debating this issue

No, there isn't any harm at all. I fully support regular awareness campaigns on this issue in order to keep Poles healthy and safe.

And when debating this issue actual facts are relevant.

Poland doesn't export the alcohol problem to the UK...The problem exports itself.

Exactly. Compared to Britain overall alcohol consumption in Poland may be somewhat higher due to harmless norms and traditions. But general moderate consumption is very different from actual alcohol abuse.

The following maps are the latest available data from the World Health Organization (WHO) regarding alcohol use disorders and equally relevant drug use disorders.









For adult males, both alcohol and drug abuse are significantly higher in Britain than in Poland.

For adult females, when it comes to alcohol abuse Britain and Poland are in the same percentile range. But for drug abuse Britain is once again significantly higher than Poland.

So as Ziemowit stated the problem exported itself. Britain already has a huge mess on its hands with its own population of heavy drug and alcohol abusers. Given Britain's large and pervasive drug and alcohol abuse culture then it should come as no surprise that a Pole like the accused Ryszard M. could have become caught-up in it or relapsed assuming he already had a problem beforehand.

Obviously everyone should be sober when working and driving. However, some may look at this one incident and then try to compare it to the number of road deaths in Poland as somehow proof that Poles are irresponsible drunkards. Not so. The fact that this man was driving a lorry demonstrates that he was at least economically active. Car ownership in Poland is also higher than in Britain and not all road deaths in Poland are alcohol related.

So although fewer vehicular related deaths due to intoxicated driving may occur in Britain, the WHO statistics show that the abuse problem still looms large. It is not only the availability of public transport but the inability of most British persons to afford a vehicle (and their aversion to work - especially jobs which require driving) which keeps road related deaths lower. But we've all seen the regularly new photos in the press of binge drinking Brits vomiting, urinating, and defecating on themselves, each other and in the streets on any given night all around the UK. Most of the British boozers in the photos are always young too and clearly already alcoholics. They face a lifetime of personal misery and place an intolerable burden on their surrounding communities in the form of spiraling high medicals costs and an endless plague of anti-social behavior. Britain is in crisis and all the Polonophobic British carpetbaggers want to do is cause a distraction by point the finger at anyone with a Polish surname.
jon357 64 | 14,382
29 Aug 2017  #94
It could have been any nationality

It wasn't though, was it...

equate being Polish with intoxicated driving and manslaughter.

Seeing things that aren't there again?
Bieganski 17 | 906
30 Aug 2017  #95
It wasn't though, was it...

If you want to talk nationalities then you could correctly say that Ryszard M. is an EU national.

If in this tragedy Ryszard M. had been a victim of a British drunk driver or had done something heroic to save someone then you and your cohorts would have had nothing to say other than to troll that he somehow wasn't Polish.

Instead Ryszard M. is accused of a crime and the article from your cohort identified him as Polish.

That's the only reason why your cohort started this fire in the first place and that's why you have been on here daily stoking it for him while he is serving his own umpteenth suspension.

Seeing things that aren't there again?

Not at all. Just look at the threads you yourself have started over the years let alone the ones you cheerlead on when one of your cohorts start one.

The preponderance of your threads cast Poland and Poles in a negative light. You can see that just from the titles you worded.

The rest of your stuff are just poor attempts at portraying a libertine Poland which simply doesn't exist and never has; are tabloidesque conspiracy theories; or are saccharine-ladened obituaries for unremarkable Jews whom most Poles today never heard of.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #96
Ryszard M. is an EU national.

So you're trying to downplay his country of origin, the topic of this whole forum!

Ryszard M. had been a victim of a British drunk driver

He is a professional qualified lorry driver, who got into an articulated lorry while drunk, drove it down the country's main motorway and killed a family of 8.

None of your flapping, whining and ranting can ever or will ever detract from that tragedy.
Bieganski 17 | 906
30 Aug 2017  #97
So you're trying to downplay his country of origin, the topic of this whole forum!

His country of origin isn't relevant.

So what are you suggesting then, that he shouldn't be given a fair trial and possibly face a harsher sentence because of his country of origin? Well, that certainly is the stance of your cohort who started this anti-Polish hit piece:

One can only hope that the British government seeks the maximum possible punishment for him.

Now that's shameless bigotry against someone who is Polish. And you support it.

And yet both of you trolls have the temerity to say that you now have Polish citizenship. If there is any truth to that at all then both of you need to have your applications or any other residency permits re-adjudicated and be deported immediately.

None of your flapping, whining and ranting can ever or will ever detract from that tragedy.

And none of your flapping, ranting and raving can ever or will ever convince anyone to accept your bigotry against Poles.

Polish nationality had absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy and you know it.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #98
, that he shouldn't be given a fair trial and possibly face a harsher sentence b

There you go again. His trial will be fair, if convicted, his sentence will reflect the gravity of the crime, within the Home Office sentencing guidlines.

this anti-Polish hit piece:

This major piece of news, something that Poles both in the UK and in Poland have been talking about since it happened, not that you'd understand what is being said. If you did, you'd see far stronger comments than have appeared in this thread.

You really don't know anything at all, other than what you can glean from English-language websites, about the way things work either the UK or Poland, do you...

Polish nationality had

Something you brought up. You. Most of us prefer to mourn the loss of those mudered innocents and raise awareness about the homicidally stupid act of driving an articulated lorry while drunk.
Bieganski 17 | 906
30 Aug 2017  #99
His trial will be fair

No it won't. You and your cohort reflect the bigoted views the average backstabbing British have always had against Poles.

not that you'd understand what is being said...You really don't know anything at all

Oh but I do know much to your chagrin. And I know that in your typical trolling fashion you are completely exaggerating and lying about Polish reaction. No one in their right mind will ever believe your absurd suggestion that Poles are self-flaggelating in collective guilt and hoping the accused be railroaded and punished for life.

Something you brought up. You. Most of us prefer to mourn the loss of those mudered innocents

Look at you trolling over this tragedy. Only moments ago you were accusing me of downplaying his nationality and even shouting that it is the topic of the forum. I pointed out correctly that his nationality isn't relevant. Now you are going through your mental gymnastics and falling flat on your fat lying face by saying I brought the subject of his nationality up. And you don't care about these "murdered innocents" at all. In fact he didn't murder anyone. Murder by definition requires premeditation to kill. So once again your are completely biased against the accused only because he is Polish and those who were killed are mere props for you in this latest drama series of your Polonophobic freak show.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #100
No it won't.

Trials are fair in Europe. If you ever visit, you can watch one.

trolling

Yes. You are doing this as usual. 8 people have died, a driver is facing decades in prison, and all you can do is write about other posters!

Without one word of compassion for the victims or condemnation of the homicidal lorry driver.
Bieganski 17 | 906
30 Aug 2017  #101
Trials are fair in Europe.

More lies.

Statistics from the European Court of Human Rights don't support your absurd claim. In fact there would be no need for a human rights court if all trials were fair.

Also in fact is that many former court rulings made under your beloved communist era in Europe were subsequently deemed invalid because they were contrary to fundamental principles of human rights.

But you admittedly don't work in Europe and only breeze through between your seasonal jobs (do you do migrant work like picking crops?).

All that time you need to spend away to earn a living just shows how completely out of touch you are with reality in Poland and the rest of Europe.

Without one word of compassion for the victims or condemnation of the homicidal lorry driver.

And even more lies and anti-Polish sentiment from you.

First off, I recognized this incident as tragedy and stated so. I don't know those killed and neither do you. So any so-called compassion from you would be insincere. I suspect those killed aren't white and that is also why you are foaming at the mouth.

As for the accused he has only been charged and hasn't even entered a plea. Is his trial already over? No. But in your bigoted head it is and as far as you are concerned he has already been convicted.

Obviously unbeknownst to you but in free societies like today's Poland there is a presumption of innocence before the court.

But you wouldn't understand this because:

a) Your native Britain has a very long history of miscarriages of justice;

b) Your ancestral despotic Turkey and other tyrannically regimes in the Middle East and Africa (with obscene human rights abuses to their name and where you earn your keep) always presume or will rig a guilt verdict.

So no, I won't be condemning Ryszard M.

He has rights and is entitled to due process.
mafketis 17 | 6,875
30 Aug 2017  #102
Without one word of compassion for the victims or condemnation of the homicidal lorry driver.

You've certainly not had one word of compassion for the victims of an assault by illegal aliens in Italy except to say the mediterranean is safe (trying to cast doubt on their story)? Also no condemnation of the illegal aliens themselves (afraid people will start wondering why so many criminals from north africa are infesting Europe)?
Harry
30 Aug 2017  #103
So you're trying to downplay his country of origin

That seems to be a recurring problem with Biegger's posts, doesn't it?

So no, I won't be condemning Ryszard M.

I'd like to be surprised by the vileness of that statement, but given the source and the subject (a Pole who killed several people of unknown race), it's entirely predictable.
Atch 17 | 2,723
30 Aug 2017  #104
The following maps are the latest available data from the World Health Organization (WHO) regarding alcohol use disorders and equally relevant drug use disorders.

The maps date from 2004. They have more recent data than that.

For adult males, both alcohol and drug abuse are significantly higher in Britain than in Poland.

In 2013 the WHO published an exhaustive report on alcohol and health in the European region, looking back over the period 1990-2010 and examining trends in consumption amongst other things. Whilst alcohol consumption has been dropping all over Europe it's been on the increase in Eastern Europe (Poland is classifed as Eastern Europe by the WHO) and in Poland is now on a par with the UK. The chances of dying from an alcohol related illness are far higher in Poland than the UK.

I would suggest that a step in the right direction might be to get rid of the 24 hour alcohol shops. I mean, come on, what sort of message does it give to have alcohol available 24 hours a day? What kind of culture does that create?
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #105
get rid of the 24 hour alcohol shops

I haven't used one of these shops to buy out of hours alcohol for about ten years, but banning them would be yet another infringement on our civil liberties. The current government likes to socially engineer, and this idea might appeal to them, but the law should be about extending liberty, not restricting it. What about petrol stations? In, e.g. the nanny state UK, it would be unthinkable to allow them to sell booze, but just yesterday, when filling up, I picked up a bottle of Jacob's Creek Chardonnay for 25PLN. Very handy.
Atch 17 | 2,723
30 Aug 2017  #106
Oh come on Roger, really now. Civil liberties, my Aunt Fanny. What is the problem with restricting the purchase of alcohol to a period between 10.00 am and 10.00pm for example. Why does it need to be available around the clock? The alcoholics can stock up during the appropriate hours and survive overnight like the Irishman a couple of years back, who bought 400 cans of lager on Holy Thursday 'just to be safe' because of the pubs etc being closed on Good Friday :D
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #107
400 cans of lager on Holy Thursday 'just to be safe' because of the pubs etc being closed on Good Friday :D

Be prepared. Dib dib dib. Yer man obviously valued peace of mind.
johnny reb 16 | 3,427
30 Aug 2017  #108
I would suggest that a step in the right direction might be to get rid of the 24 hour alcohol shops.

Absolutely Atch.
The majority of people that buy alcohol before 10 a.m. or after 10 p.m. are full blown alcoholics.
They are a danger to others and themselves.

Civil liberties

It's my Civil Liberty to drive down the road with my family and not be in danger of having them killed by a drunk, it's my Civil Liberty to not be forced to pay for some alcoholic who was irresponsible causing public damage to others or himself, it's my Civil Liberty to be protected by law from inebriated people.

Alcoholics however can justify anything to continue their self serving drunkenness.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #109
Statistics from the European Court of Human Rights don't support y

Yes they are. Even very fair.

That seems to be a recurring problem with Biegger's posts, doesn't it?

Crude and unsavoury trolling. Nothing else.

The chances of dying from an alcohol related illness are far higher in Poland than the UK.

It's part of the alcohol culture there. I never believe statistics comparing alcohol consumption in the two countries - it seems to be far more common in PL. Drunks in the street, people drinking neat vodka, daytime drinkers, adverts for drying out cures - and of course the drunk driving.

24 hour alcohol shops are certianly part of the problem. A worse part is petrol stations that sell it, and the huge number of beer adverts on TV.

When a group of 8 people gets killed by a drunken lorry driver from that environmnent, it's time to reassess the role of alcohol in society.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #110
it's time to reassess the role of alcohol in society.

I think that's already happening. Young people are drinking more beer and less vodka. Also, it's now accepted when you refuse a drink at friends' houses. Having said that, booze is still very much a part of life in northern Europe, and will always be. Education is very important, of course. Cig packets now have revolting pictures on, and I'm sure that will have an effect. Alcohol and its uses and abuses should be part of every school curriculum, along with work on other drugs.

There's much talk on here about the availability of booze. People will always be able to get it, whether petrol stations are allowed to sell it or not. Small shopkeepers would love the opportunity to sell booze out of hours and under the counter.

There's a similar debate about selling booze in airports because of the growing number of air rage incidents. Why should the good suffer for the bad?

(btw, sorry to mention cold Chardonnay, jon. I understand you are in a very dry place atm.)
mafketis 17 | 6,875
30 Aug 2017  #111
People will always be able to get it, whether petrol stations are allowed to sell it or not

Yes, doesn't anyone remember meliny from the PRL?

potocznie nazwa miejsca w której przebywają, spotykają się osoby z tzw. marginesu społecznego w celu spożywania wyrobów alkoholowych bądź używania narkotyków; miejsca te z reguły to opuszczone budynki, mieszkania bądź domy rodzin, osób powiązanych z patologią.

colloquially the name of a place where people on the margins of society meet and spend time in order to consume alcohol or use drugs, usually these places are abandoned buildings, or the apartments or family homes of people engaged in pathological behavior

Cig packets now have revolting pictures on, and I'm sure that will have an effect

there's no evidence AFAIK that the pictures have any effect (beyond making the practice of smoking seem more extreme and edgy to dumb teenagers)

want to stop teen smoking? get the most boring and respectable people possibly to encourage it.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #112
meliny from the PRL

These places still exist. Fortunately those who drink like that rarely get near a vehicle (except the back of an ambulance or a Black Maria).

want to stop teen smoking? get the most boring and respectable people

The numbers of teen smokers have fallen a lot. The profile of a typical smoher (dull, middle aged, constantly coughing) may have something to do with it.
mafketis 17 | 6,875
30 Aug 2017  #113
These places still exist.

In the PRL they also operated (usually out of apartments people were living in) primarily to sell acohol when the stores were closed. These weren't nice but they were far from the total squalor and degradation of such places now....
Ziemowit 12 | 3,370
30 Aug 2017  #114
If in this tragedy Ryszard M. had been a victim of a British drunk driver then you and your cohorts would have had nothing to say other than to troll that he somehow wasn't Polish.

True.

The preponderance of your threads cast Poland and Poles in a negative light.

Very true.

And you don't care about these "murdered innocents" at all.

So undeniably true.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #115
primarily to sell acohol when the stores were closed

Including a lot of bimber, which is something that there is mercifully much less of nowadays.
jon357 64 | 14,382
30 Aug 2017  #116
usually out of apartments people were living in

There are some at the bottom end of Zoliborz - mostly selling bimber and homebrew.

Including a lot of bimber, which is something that there is mercifully much less of nowadays.

This is a good thing. The generation that made high quality bimber is dying off now. The good stuff was always a tiny fraction of it, most of it toxically strong and contaminated with traces of methanol.

There is still a meths drinking culture, though also forunately rare.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #117
The good stuff was always a tiny fraction of it, most of it toxically strong and contaminated with traces of methanol.

In my bachelor days I got plastered on rubbish bimber and had a scary three-day hangover.

There is still a meths drinking culture

It always makes me shake my head when I see meths sold from the same shelf as vodka, e.g. I've seen this in Spolem. Last winter I slowly drove past a guy who was collapsed on a grass verge (people were attending him). Although my windows were closed, I could smell meths. Why anyone would or could drink it is beyond my comprehension.
mafketis 17 | 6,875
30 Aug 2017  #118
I see meths sold from the same shelf as vodka

Many years ago there some guys dripping it through bread to drink it and they didn't like the way I looked at them and threw the bottle at me. fortunately their aim was terrible and missed by many yards...
Ironside 47 | 9,572
30 Aug 2017  #119
So you're trying to downplay his country of origin

No, but you cannot be taken seriously if you're not consistent. Either his country of origin is relevant or is not relevant. You cannot have it both ways.

You cannot have a cake and eat it.
Your reliability is bursting at seams and you cannot handle with your standard reaction of attacking those who disagree with you, dismissing them or by smearing their motives or their character.

I would see nothing wrong with you starting this thread if not for your record on this forum and if it wasn't for the fact that you support delph deliberate flaming with similar threats.

That makes everyone suspicion as to your reasons as you didn't condemn delph and his stupid game.
In other words if anyone else would have stated this thread other than you, delph and Harry - I wouldn't be agreeing with Bieg. As we are now I pretty much agree with him.

That seems to be a recurring problem with Biegger's posts, doesn't it?

What don't you focus on your problems Harry? Instead of peddling some BS all the time.
Bieg is calling you out on your BS.
damn soviets
Roger5 1 | 1,463
30 Aug 2017  #120
dripping it through bread

Getting way off topic here but that reminds me of a story my close relative told me. He was serving on a Royal Navy ship which had some helicopters on board (not an aircraft carrier). Due to an extended deployment the beer ran out. Two guys whose job it was to secure the helicopters filtered warmed boot polish through toast and drank it. They lost a helicopter overboard and, apart from being canned for a while, were fined a token amount to be taken from their pay basically forever.


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