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Western Europe is not Paradise after all (Polish doctors in the UK more popular)


johnb121 4 | 184
28 Jun 2013 #31
It used to be a truism that if you wanted elective surgery you wanted to go private, but if something was seriously wrong, the NHS was the place to be. I'm sadly sure that's no longer true.

I had a doctor in London whose surgery was open M-F and Saturday morning. Get there before 11AM or 6OM and, no matter how late it meant he worked, he'd see you. Then targets took over and he had to give everyone an appointment – result, next appointment is next Wednesday, sort of thing!

I was lucky, he'd still see me when I got home from work at getting on for 7pm. But though the surgery closed at 6, he'd still have people waiting to see him.

I was in hospital for 13 weeks and saw how badly some of the patients were treated, and how filthy it was. The old guy in the bed next to mine fell out of bed every few days and the nurses would just laugh and it would be hours before he was put back in. The whole thing was an eye-opener!
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #32
I went to see a doctor about my throat infection and high temperature recently, she was Polish.

I must say that is the standard attitude of most doctors that we consult here in Poland with our or kids` problems. Out family GP is so caring that she sometimes seems obnoxious with that vivid interest of hers in making kids get better.

Other doctors just ask me what is wrong, sometimes briefly look in my mouth, then just say, go to bed, get plenty of rest, it should be better in about a week.

Doubly outrageous, I must say.

I was in hospital for 13 weeks and saw how badly some of the patients were treated, and how filthy it was. The old guy in the bed next to mine fell out of bed every few days and the nurses would just laugh and it would be hours before he was put back in. The whole thing was an eye-opener!

Oh my God. Is it possible?
But, I remember, In another thread someone mentioned there is clandestine euthanasia in British hospitals.
jon357 67 | 17,530
29 Jun 2013 #33
It looks like he's had an unusually bad experience. That or he's lying. I always had very good experiences with the NHS and having been an inpatient several times, I've certainly never seen people falling out of beds!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #34
that is called a 'cold' which is caused by a mutating virus against which antibiotics are quite useless! kind of basic knowledge....

I have also had nothing but good experiences of the NHS, ok A and E in Brighton on a Saturday night is no fun but other than that......
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #35
I always had very good experiences with the NHS

I have also had nothing but good experiences of the NHS,

Yes, nothing is only black or white.

But the fact that experiences of you both were OK doesn`t mean that other people`s were, too.

or he's lying

Why should the poster do it? I know you don`t read Daily Mail but are all the statements about practice of clandestine euthanasia in Britain false?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html

NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday. Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial 'death pathway' into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly.

There are around 450,000 deaths in Britain each year of people who are in hospital or under NHS care. Around 29 per cent - 130,000 - are of patients who were on the LCP.

Professor Pullicino claimed that far too often elderly patients who could live longer are placed on the LCP and it had now become an 'assisted death pathway rather than a care pathway'.

He cited 'pressure on beds and difficulty with nursing confused or difficult-to-manage elderly patients' as factors.


Comments:

My Mother has just been put to death by St Ann's Hospice in Manchester. She went in for two weeks rest but they put her on Terminal Sedation without our permission. Terminal Sedation is different from Palliative Sedation in that they take away all the patients life saving drugs, in my Mum's case her heart tablets, and render them unable to eat or drink and therefore they die of starvation and dehydration. A syringe driver is used to administer the slow drip, drip of the drugs that is used to keep them sedated. These drugs cause brain damage and sometimes when my Mother regained conciousness she sounded as if she was mentally disabled. But, her instincts knew and she begged me to stop them from injecting her and violently pulled the syringe driver out of her arm!! This is not a dignified way to die. My family want me to let it go because it is too widespread but something needs to be done. Please do not let your loved one go through this treatment, it is not humane, it is cruel.

Comments:

After having witnessed elderly people die in NHS hospitals I very quickly came to the conclusion that there is an unwritten policy to let elderly patients to die rather than trying to look after them, after all its cheaper than wasting time and money trying to keep them alive.

If you want to live to a ripe old age, don't develop an illness/condition that means you end up in hospital, because if you do, you'll end up being killed off. Once again it becomes clear that the NHS is not concerned with caring for patients; NHS managers are motivated by money: the money they can save, whilst at the same time having their salaries increased. By the way, the govt. isn't all that bothered if the LCP leads to the deaths of more elderly people, as it saves it a lot of money that would have to been paid out in pensions. The UK: the only country, where euthanasia is state-sanctioned.


Of course, there are also supportive comments:
What was the quality of life the patient had for the extra 14 months? was it hell or was it really happy and pain free. There has to be more to it, than we can keep that person alive for 14 months. I am terminally ill, and I hope I don't bump into Professor Pullicino, because after suffering cancer for nearly 3 years, I don't want him trying to keep me alive for a few extra weeks, when I don't want to be in this world any longer.
johnb121 4 | 184
29 Jun 2013 #36
North Middx Hospital, July to October 2007, Jon. You could even check out the written statements I was asked to give about one nurse who mis-treated an Irish guy in the bed opposite. The poor guy next to me was not in his right mind, I guess. He'd get up and trail poo across the ward floor, fall to the floor and not be able to get back onto his bed and when they forgot to put the sides up, he'd fall out. Then there was the guy whose sons brought in food from outside evey few days and he hid it until he wanted to eat it - KFC, three days old. MIchael, who was shouted at because he could not walk in paper slippers and too-big pyjamas after his illness - I got a friend to go to Sainsburys and buy him a pair of trainers and a pair of joggers and he was perfectly able to walk after that.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
29 Jun 2013 #37
antibiotics are quite useless!

and yet the antibiotics seem to work every time.
jon357 67 | 17,530
29 Jun 2013 #38
Not for the common cold they don't. It's viral not bacterial.

johnb121
It sounds like you've had a very unlucky experience. Personally, I've been an inpatient 6 times (in 4 hospitals) and always been impressed at the high standard of care. Worth mentioning that each time was in the north of England.

clandestine euthanasia

Not so clandestine. It's called the Liverpool Care Pathway and although some patients' relatives are very emotional about the end of their loved ones' life and look for fault in the treatment regime, it's important than we have it rather than subject someone to a prolonged death. It is done that was to ensure maximum dignity and minimum distress and pain.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Jun 2013 #39
that is called a 'cold' which is caused by a mutating virus against which antibiotics are quite useless! kind of basic knowledge....

yeah, very basic knowledge. the problem is if you let a a viral infection go on completely untreated for too long, you do tend to get something called secondary bacterial infections, and they are not fun, let me tell you. I've had them. and you do need antibiotics for those. also, if it's your tonsils that are acting up, you need a throat smear done because half the time the infection is bacterial and again, you need antibiotics. I used to suffer from tonsillitis so much as a child that I had to have my tonsils removed eventually. all in all, it's dumb to give patients antibiotics just because they feel unwell; on the other hand, many doctors go OTT in the opposite direction and prescribe nothing more than paracetamol for strep throat, pneumonia, or bronchitis (again, these can be both viral and bacterial). that's what diagnostic tests are for. my daughter would probably have died in England as a baby (2 months old), as one day she suddenly developed a cough and the very next day she already had full-blown pneumonia, high fever, horrible wheezing, you name it, she had it. as I lived in Poland, the doctor visited us at home and immediately started a course of treatment which an English GP would probably dither about for a week.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #40
the problem is if you let a a viral infection go on completely untreated for too long

Magda, for goodness sake, the guy went to the doctor whining for antibiotics with a COLD?
well antibiotics do NOT cure the cold!! you treat a cold by staying in, taking over the counter remedies.....
some nationalities do seem particularly prone to hypochondria i must say, while it is the Italians that spring to mind initially,
it would appear the Polish are not far behind!
as for your ill 2 year old, that is pure conjecture about what might or might not have happened in England really isnt it?
so not really a reasonable point.

Weilki polak - that is known as the 'placebo effect'
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Jun 2013 #41
the guy went to the doctor whining for antibiotics with a COLD?

How do you know it was a cold / viral infection, and not strep throat / bacterial bronchitis?

you treat a cold by staying in, taking over the counter remedies.....

yes, that's what you do - initially. what if there's no improvement after say 5 days?

as for your ill 2 year old, that is pure conjecture about what might or might not have happened in England really isnt it?

2-month-old to be precise. I know it is conjecture but based on experience - I spent several years working as a community interpreter in London, and I have assisted with countless GP visits, including visits of parents with very sick babies (coughing, wheezing, feverish).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #42
sorry 2 month old, what a worry, I know, I just used to use A and E if i was really worried.
but u know this weilki polak, if he had 'bacterial bronchitis' he would be in bed crying not walking into a clinic,
i have no doubt at all that he probably had a bit of a cold and sore throat, what a big baby
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Jun 2013 #43
but u know this weilki polak, if he had 'bacterial bronchitis' he would be in bed crying not walking into a clinic,

I used to have bacterial bronchitis and strep throat and other assorted illnesses quite a lot... at some point I had a colony of bacteria living in my throat and flaring up any time I was feeling a little under the weather. You can function then (I attended my matura exams with strep throat, there was no way round it), but it's not fun. I didn't take any antibiotics for it for about 10 years. Then one doctor just told me to shut the f*k up about natural remedies and gave me a lethal dose of antibiotics. I haven't had a problem since then (another 10+ years and counting).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #44
fingers crossed for you then Magda....
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Jun 2013 #45
It's funny how I get better health-wise the older I get... usually it's the opposite ;-)
I do hope the trend continues!
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #46
Magda, for goodness sake, the guy went to the doctor whining for antibiotics with a COLD?
well antibiotics do NOT cure the cold!! you treat a cold by staying in, taking over the counter remedies.....

Sorry, you are wrong. There are many cases where traditional methods are useless or even harmful.

Whenever I catch a cold (once a year), I immediately turn to antibiotics that are left after treating my kids` infections.

Why? Each cold in my case quickly develops into acute sinusitis which, due to my facial bone structure ( deviated nasal septum), remains with me for even 3 months and, if not treated with antibiotics, leads to serious problems with my throat. Using antibiotics in the early phase often makes it successful to protect my throat. .
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #47
google placebo effect pawian, anti-biotics do not work against a cold, that is medical fact.

bbc.co.uk/news/health-15772727

there you go, that might help.
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #48
google placebo effect pawian, anti-biotics do not work against a cold, that is medical fact.

Yuo know better what is good for me?? :):):)

Thank you. :):):)
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #49
i am saying that you are deluded..:):)
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #50
Again, thank you for caring but I will stick to my methods. You have too little experience with such cases as mine. :):)
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
29 Jun 2013 #51
lol ok pawwers, but wrap up warm and make sure you don't stand in any draughts....take care now....xx
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
29 Jun 2013 #52
Whenever I catch a cold (once a year), I immediately turn to antibiotics that are left after treating my kids` infections.

Note: I am not a medical professional. Any advice given henceforth is my own opinion based on what I heard during a game of Chinese Whispers.

You should not be taking your kid's medications for the following reasons:
1) Your child should have been prescribed a medication suitable for their particular circumstance in a quantity that ensures the ailment is treated effectively. Under utilization of the prescribed amount can lead to re-infection should the dosage administered be insufficient to kill the infection. Failure to administer the entire course of antibiotics may lead to that particular strain of bacteria becoming resistant to that particular medication in the future.

2) The remaining amount of medication from your child's course of treatment may be of the wrong variety to effectively treat your particular ailment. If it is the correct variety, there may be insufficient quantity of medication to adequately treat your ailment, and as noted above, may actually lead to your strain of ailment becoming immune to that particular drug in the future.

3) Seek proper medical attention and not advice from internet fora for all ailments you need treatment for, including erections that last for more than 6 hours.
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #53
Note: I am not a medical professional. Any advice given henceforth is my own opinion based on what I heard during a game of Chinese Whispers.

That is fair enough. Thanks for warning. :):)

You should not be taking your kid's medications for the following reasons:

Yes, but remember what I said?

There are many cases where traditional methods are useless or even harmful.

I am such a case. My wife also warned me of not using them on my own. Of course I did a few years ago, and what? The first usage of kids` drugs was a success! :):):)

Your child should have been prescribed a medication suitable for their particular circumstance in a quantity that ensures the ailment is treated effectively. Under utilization of the prescribed amount can lead to re-infection should the dosage administered be insufficient to kill the infection.

Yes, I am aware of it. That is why I take medicaments which are the most abundant at home. :):):)

The remaining amount of medication from your child's course of treatment may be of the wrong variety to effectively treat your particular ailment.

Well, I already know which ones help me best. Do you know Zinnat? :):):)

netdoctor.co.uk/infections/medicines/zinnat.html

Seek proper medical attention

After a series of contacts with doctors who weren`t able to treat my special case proiperly, I decided to be my own doctor. I save on time a lot in this way. :):)

not advice from internet fora for all ailments you need treatment for,

I checked foras only for following ailments:
-chronic sinusitis
-back problems (gym injury 9 years ago)

including erections that last for more than 6 hours.

I don`t need such a long erection. My erections are shorter but frequent, e.g., 2 times within an hour. Or 5 times per night. :):):) That is enough to make the best woman in the world happy. :):):)
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
29 Jun 2013 #54
the guy went to the doctor whining for antibiotics with a COLD?

Why are you telling me what illness I had? I told you that I had a throat infection. The Polish doctor had a look at me, properly, then gave me antibiotics. I did not ask her for them but she gave them to me anyway. Other doctors, from here, who I asked, told me I did not need to take them. The antibiotics she prescribed made me better. I know that you desperately want to try and defend your beloved doctors, but the truth is, a lot of them do far too little.

When did I ever say I had a common hold? Get it together fool.
OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #55
Your case must have been the special one, like mine. Traditional methods didn`t work.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
29 Jun 2013 #56
Traditional methods didn`t work.

Did that include the use of silver?

Thousands of years before the discovery of microbes or the invention of antibiotics, silver was used to protect wounds from infection and to preserve food and water.

OP pawian 179 | 16,322
29 Jun 2013 #57
No, I only used gold. Goldwasser, that is. The best medicine ever.

Hey, time to get back to work! Do you want mods to intervene in this thread??

British organisation issued warning for Polish immigrants:

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10120641/Come-to-Britain-unprepared-and-you-risk-becoming-a-victim-of-violence-Polish-migrants-warned.html

Polish migrants risk homelessness and even being set alight by hooligans if they move to Britain unprepared, according to a film funded by Ministers.
People who come to Britain without a guarantee of a job and secure accommodation face sleeping rough and risk being robbed and even set on fire by yobs, according to the Polish-language film funded by the Department for Communities and Local Government.

Jacek, who comes to Britain in search of "work and a better life", suffers a worse fate. He loses his job as a casual labourer after a workplace injury, and with no entitlement to welfare he becomes a homeless alcoholic. Until recently, migrants from Poland had no right to Job Seekers' Allowance unless they had a record of National Insurance payments.

The film shows him being mugged by thieves before being set alight in his sleeping bag. Badly burnt, he returns to Poland. "I hope one day my family will be proud of me," he says, weeping, alongside images of his mother praying in church.


British organisation issued warning for Polish immigrants:

Comments from here: news.sky.com/story/1104180/video-warns-would-be-immigrants -of-hard-move

you see....heres the thing i dont understand. in the last year, we have had stories talking about job shortages, money shortages, water shortages and food shortages and yet we are still letting immigration go pretty much unchecked. WHY?

It is a shame that all government's since the 50's didn't do this, that way England might not be this multicultural nightmare we have today. They came here for jobs, the fact is we have never had full employment since 1945. So why do we need economic migrants, we don't. It was a social experiment that got out of control and nobody has got the bottle to sort it out.

And there was me thinking our welfare state covered everyone who wants to sponge off us? I think for every vagabond there will be 10 living off us & dragging the economy down.

Take a walk down Union Street in Aberdeen & see them at door entrances. Sad sorry state.

This is s joke. I live in a small market town that has high tourists. So most of the industry is hotels, eating houses etc. Who has ALL the jobs Polish people. Who now have ALL the social housing Polish people, The schools are full of Polish people. All the summer jobs our kids used to have GONE. All our Saturday jobs GONE. No this story must relate to London because trust me immigrants are doing very well out in the sticks.

t's ridiculous how they can come here without a job offer or money to establish themselves without having to benefit off the state in the first place! We so so so need to get our powers back from Brussells to establish some proper immigration laws which will actually propser the UK by favouring the immigrants who can actually bring something to the table, as it should be!

TheOther 6 | 3,692
29 Jun 2013 #58
Goldwasser, that is. The best medicine ever.

Danziger Goldwasser? That stuff kills, if you know what I mean. ;)
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
30 Jun 2013 #59
When did I ever say I had a common hold? Get it together fool.

i am a fool? an you are a big suck baby hypochondriac with a very sketchy grasp of bio-chemistry.
:)
jon357 67 | 17,530
30 Jun 2013 #60
Better to chuck old medications always. And no, antibiotics do not make the slightest difference to viral infections like a cold. The clue is in the name.


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