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Unemployed Poles in Ireland : a crash course in milking the system


SeanBM 35 | 5,808
20 Sep 2012 #271
These benefits are in place for less well off British families, and its a great system for the underprivileged, it was never meant for Eastern Europeans

I don't know anything about the British welfare system but can a Polish person just go to England and start claiming?
Do they not have to work and collect stamps (or something) first, showing they made a contribution?
pam
20 Sep 2012 #272
You think i shouldn't have written the above because i have a non blood family member who may be eligible?

Of course not, i am simply making the point that your extended family are/probably will be receiving our benefits.
I don't think you should change your opinion,and you obviously can't choose your in-laws, but if you are saying you don't agree with the masses of Eastern Europeans coming here claiming our benefits, then by default, you are saying exactly the same about your wifes family.

Do you think they should have stayed in Poland then, and not tried for the chance of a better life?
Wroclaw Boy
20 Sep 2012 #273
I don't know anything about the British welfare system but can a Polish person just go to England and start claiming?

Yeap, it takes a little longer to process but the claim gets back dated anyway. Happy days, child benefit, housing benefit, tax credits, child tax credits, council house benefit and job seekers allowance. Can be worth about £1800 a month all told. Just turn up and receive, and if they dont speak English we provide a translator.

Each city has little help organisations set up mainly consisting of Polish people that tell them all this anyway, they also have Polish websites, but they really dont need any of that as they all work together and they all know the system so much as they all tell each other at work.

but if you are saying you don't agree with the masses of Eastern Europeans coming here claiming our benefits, then by default, you are saying exactly the same about your wifes family.

Fcuk yeah.

Do you think they should have stayed in Poland then, and not tried for the chance of a better life?

Not at all. My views on society are what they are and anything i may have portrayed in that thread do not change that opinion. The issues im highlighting here could constitute a financial breakdown of this countries already fragile financial predicament nothing more.

In essence should they have came? yeah. Is it the straw that brakes the camels back? i doubt it.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
20 Sep 2012 #274
your extended family are/probably will be receiving our benefits.

Is that really possible?
I never heard of someone's brother being able to get social welfare because of the sister.

Yeap, it takes a little longer to process but the claim gets back dated anyway.

That's messed up.

What do you suggest?

It sounds like the dole is too easy to get but then you have people who are truly in need.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
20 Sep 2012 #275
Is that really possible?

One in four Poles in Ireland are on the dole and SeanBm is shocked that it is too easy.

L.O.L
Less777 - | 50
20 Sep 2012 #276
These benefits are in place for less well off British families, and its a great system for the underprivileged, it was never meant for Eastern Europeans to come here and to be exploited.

Evidently politicians do not agree with you.

They are milking every last friggen drop and that bothers me

To some extend this bothers everyone.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
20 Sep 2012 #277
What do you suggest?

Wait until the money runs out? 41 years of contributions only to find no money in the pot when I retire. Still, as long everyone else is looked after, who cares about the people who paid for these pensions.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #278
What do you suggest?

maybe bare minimum - 1 years national insurance contributions, which is what i thought it was, or maybe some kind of strict restrictions on foreigners as in need to be resident in the UK for over 3 years or something. Either way they should have a separate benefit system for immigrants as in less money and no council housing. Crikey the waiting list for decent council housing for Brits is bad enough.

Better yet stop them coming in the first place, massively restrict the inflow.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Sep 2012 #279
Just turn up and receive

Not quite - you need to be working 3 months first.

The whole system is screaming for a German style reform where benefits only last for a certain amount of time and are subject to your own work history - if you do the minimum to qualify, you get the minimum.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #280
Not quite - you need to be working 3 months first.

I dont think so, you have income based benefits.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Sep 2012 #281
These are still subject to the three month rule - the general idea is that you need to have made the UK your main home - so you need to show evidence of this. You won't get a penny if you aren't either in work (or self employed), or if you haven't been registered as looking for work for at least 3 months.

Despite what the papers would have you believe, you can't just step off the plane and get a package of benefits instantly. You can get the dole - but that's only if you 'transfer' it from Poland (and Poland will pay for it, not the UK).

Interestingly, the same rules apply to UK citizens too - if I went back, I couldn't go on the dole as I'd fail the habitual residence test.

Child benefit and child tax credit isn't subject to these rules, but they are applied under the "right to reside" rules instead - which mean that you need to either be working or registered as looking for work.

adviceguide.org.uk/england/benefits_e/benefits_coming_from_abroad_and_claiming_benefits_hrt/benefits_the_habitual_residence_test_introduction/what_is_the_habitual_residence_test.htm

As for foreigners getting council properties - at least in Scotland, what happened was that foreigners took up all the properties in 'bad' areas that no-one local wanted.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #282
Interestingly, the same rules apply to UK citizens too - if I went back, I couldn't go on the dole as I'd fail the habitual residence test.

Nope, you would pass unless you told them you weren't planning on staying in the UK.

What is the habitual residence test

The habitual residence test (HRT) is carried out on most people who apply for benefits. To pass the test you must prove:

you have a right to reside in the UK. This means you have a legal right to live here and claim certain benefits
you intend to settle in the UK, Isle of Man, Channel Islands or Ireland and make it your home for the time being. This is known as habitual residence.

Your link

These are still subject to the three month rule - the general idea is that you need to have made the UK your main home - so you need to show evidence of this. You won't get a penny if you aren't either in work (or self employed), or if you haven't been registered as looking for work for at least 3 months.

Rubbish, there is no three month rule and if there is its not being implemented. I'd be interested to see some evidence if you have it.

Polish people that come here are being directed by official help agencies straight to the benefit centers.

As for foreigners getting council properties - at least in Scotland, what happened was that foreigners took up all the properties in 'bad' areas that no-one local wanted.

Yeah thats where they tend to put Somalian immigrants and asylum seekers. Not so called Europeans.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
21 Sep 2012 #283
yes it's all very well but if destitute people are turning up it's better they get benefits than sleep on the streets and turn to crime surely? Think about the sums.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #284
Ahh the old cure the headache by cutting off the head technique. No benefits - they dont come, or we send them back and log their details so they cant come back unless they want to pack themselves into a trucks freezer.

Weve never witnessed mass immigration of this kind in such a short space of time,if they work thats kind of OK, but theyre not, theyre milking an already vulnerable system which was set up to protect the under privileged.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
21 Sep 2012 #285
yes it's all very well but if destitute people are turning up it's better they get benefits than sleep on the streets and turn to crime surely? Think about the sums.

Stop dole for welfare tourists and they will stay at home
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
21 Sep 2012 #286
I agree with that. Except they do initially come here for work, then they find out that they're actually much better off working the absolute minimum and claiming benefits for everything possible.

I mean it doesnt make sense to have a Father and Mother working all crappy hours in crappy jobs, when only the father can work and they still get all kinds of lovely little extra benefits when theyre legally classed as a low income family.

Can you blame them? Who the hell wants to work10-12 hours a day physically when they can have more from government like a little extra money, health insurance, and more free time to spend with their families or just to enjoy life. Everyone does it in every country on this globe. Here in the States I can honestly tell you that Poles are on the bottom of the list to do so. I only personally know a few who take welfare.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #287
Can you blame them?

no

Who the hell wants to work10-12 hours a day physically when they can have more from government like a little extra money, health insurance, and more free time to spend with their families or just to enjoy life.

absolutely

Its the old story of blame the government.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
21 Sep 2012 #288
Your link

The "right to reside" is the crucial thing - it is not based on citizenship, but rather based on a concept known as "exercising your Treaty rights". Basically - unless you can prove that you're serious about staying in the UK, you don't have the right to reside. It's all rather complicated, but it stops people from claiming benefits straight off the plane.

Rubbish, there is no three month rule and if there is its not being implemented. I'd be interested to see some evidence if you have it.

Polish people that come here are being directed by official help agencies straight to the benefit centers.

And the benefit centres won't help them unless they pass both the habitual residence tests and the right of residence tests. In fact - if they're getting benefits straight off the plane, then the relevant authorities are breaking the law.

Yeah thats where they tend to put Somalian immigrants and asylum seekers. Not so called Europeans.

The Poles certainly took over much of the crap properties in Aberdeen - and were commended for making them far nicer places to live.

yes it's all very well but if destitute people are turning up it's better they get benefits than sleep on the streets and turn to crime surely? Think about the sums.

Actually, if they're destitute, they can be thrown out after 3 months without giving them a penny. It's exactly the same law that France used against the Roma.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #289
The "right to reside" is the crucial thing - it is not based on citizenship, but rather based on a concept known as "exercising your Treaty rights". Basically - unless you can prove that you're serious about staying in the UK, you don't have the right to reside. It's all rather complicated, but it stops people from claiming benefits straight off the plane.

Dude i posted your link and all the info above, you're dead, you have no argument on this one.

And the benefit centres won't help them unless they pass both the habitual residence tests and the right of residence tests.

You commented that you wouldn't have the right, you were wrong. But please explain how you would fail the HRT test.

But lets assume that youre right for a moment, do you think it fair that you as a British citizen could not claim benefits in the UK if you so needed them? OK youve lived abroad for a few years but you are a UK citizen are you not?

I assume you have a few years NI contributions under your belt. Even if you dont your parents most probably would have, thats a birth right entitlement.

I'm still waiting for this three month proof of working in the UK, or proof that youve been looking for work in the UK link.

It's all rather complicated, but it stops people from claiming benefits straight off the plane.

But it doesn't though (even if it does exist) and thats whats essentially crucial.
milky 13 | 1,657
21 Sep 2012 #290
if you do the minimum to qualify, you get the minimum.

How did things get so flexible in the first place. I know guys, perfectly health on the dole over 25 years with no work history. How did it get this way?
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
21 Sep 2012 #291
absolutely

Its the old story of blame the government.

I'm not blaming the government it's good that it gives what it does. The rich (corporations) make several times more that in the past (pay much much lower taxes) it wont hurt them to put a little more crumbs on the plate.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #292
I'm not blaming the government it's good that it gives what it does.

I mean blame the UK guv for the fact that they make it easy for foreigners to come here and claim benefits.

The rich (corporations) make several times more that in the past (pay much much lower taxes) it wont hurt them to put a little more crumbs on the plate.

Not really, they need people in work to pay taxes, not working means they are using tax revenue. Big corporations obviously dont give a fcuk as they're not directly affected.
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
21 Sep 2012 #293
Wroclaw Boy, you seem pretty clued up..

Check out the Polish forums, i kid you not. they're obsessed with British benefits, discussing it at every opportunity.

mojawyspa.co.uk/forum/76/Zasilki-i-swiadczenia-socjalne

Government austerity searching again goes back to the benefits. We are now considering the option of freezing for two years amount of benefits which will bring the State billions in profits.

The Conservative Party has found a new source of savings - is considering freezing for two years the amount of social benefits. Currently, most benefits increasing in parallel with inflation, ie for example. for this year unemployment benefits are higher by 5.2 percent, you can not say the same about the salaries of employees, which are either frozen, or if are growing, it is often below the level of inflation - this year, experts expect the average increase in the limit of 2.1 per cent. And it just happened to be a reference point for the Tories.

According to conservatives, it is not acceptable that the increase in social benefits are more than two times higher - higher than the increase in salaries of employees. - Given that many employed people have barely enough money for life, we have to ask whether it is fair that people on benefits received more than employees - said Prime Minister David Cameron.

mojawyspa.co.uk/artykuly/29471/UK-Zamroza-zasilki-na-dwa-lata

LOL you literally couldn't make it up.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Sep 2012 #294
Check out the Polish forums, i kid you not. they're obsessed with British benefits, discussing it at every opportunity.

Of course they are its a cash cow.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
21 Sep 2012 #295
LOL you literally couldn't make it up.

If you want to give yourself a heart attack, whack british benefits into google translate and then google each languages results!!
Avalon 4 | 1,068
21 Sep 2012 #296
How did it get this way?

Labour!!!, buying votes, it certainly was not Maggie!!!!
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
22 Sep 2012 #297
Here's an absolute cracker you'll all love..

polemi.co.uk/forum/36-zdrowie-rodzina-i-dziecko/14700-jestem-w-ciazy-lece-do-angli
Translated:

I'm pregnant I'm going to England
What benefits to a woman who does not worked in England and is 5 months pregnant and not working / but by the end she worked in Poland. Ask for hints.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
22 Sep 2012 #298
What benefits to a woman who does not worked in England and is 5 months pregnant and not working / but by the end she worked in Poland. Ask for hints.

Betcha the kid aint white, too. Which is a double whammy.

I need a license for my dogs. Parents should need a license to breed.
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
22 Sep 2012 #299
Of course the kid is white. The woman is Polish, living in Poland. Obviously been dumped by her boyfriend or something and now she is seeking her free state-provided existence for her and her child in the UK.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
22 Sep 2012 #300
Of course the kid is white. The woman is Polish, living in Poland

How do you know she didn't end up copulating with a person of a different cultural heritage / background?


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