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Do the poles like British culture


jdthebrit 2 | 50
25 Oct 2012 #31
PS Magda:

I can assure you without a word of a lie that if Jaruzelski was British and had ****** us over as he did your country he would have been cut into little pieces by the mob.

That's our (rather more pro-active) culture.
Ironside 53 | 12,436
25 Oct 2012 #32
That is what you believe in. Nothing wrong with it.
jdthebrit 2 | 50
25 Oct 2012 #33
The thing is though Delph - you and I know there is community spirit in the uK - oK so communism ruined that in Poland and it's quickly coming back and normalising - but magda got my back up. I'm not saying one culture is "better" than the other - I'm saying that Poles stereotypically analyse (and prevaricate) and reach a logical conclusion, and Brits act, and sometimes balls it up :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
25 Oct 2012 #34
I can assure you without a word of a lie that if Jaruzelski was British and had ****** us over as he did your country he would have been cut into little pieces by the mob.

I didn't see any mob cutting Unionist politicians in Northern Ireland to bits even though they totally ****** over the Catholic minority in all sorts of disgraceful ways.

you and I know there is community spirit in the uK - oK so communism ruined that in Poland and it's quickly coming back and normalising

You should've stuck with that line ;)

The lack of community spirit (and volunteering) in Poland is the worst thing about this country. I notice that people are happy to do it while studying, but as soon as they finish university, they don't seem to do a thing.
jdthebrit 2 | 50
25 Oct 2012 #35
I'm not having that - the Ireland thing - their country being occupied by a foreign power is not the same as a Pole betraying his country while "president" and being applauded by 50 per cent of the population, and even his enemies buying his autobiography.

That illustrates that the Poles get the leaders they deserve, and will lie down and take it.

Any Polish amateur could have outed the old general at his place of abode in France. Yet Poles are soft and resigned to taking it up the ass as I said. And as you said, they refuse to get involved.

That is why Magda's assumption of the Brits is all wrong. A traitor like the General would have been dead many many years ago, and you and me know it.

Those murderous criminals like Peter Robinson on the other hand are and were protected by a professional state security.
sofijufka 2 | 187
25 Oct 2012 #36
A traitor like the General would have been dead many many years ago, and you and me know it.

so sir Oswald Mosley was killed by some english amateur? Oh my, I didn't know
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
25 Oct 2012 #37
I'm not having that - the Ireland thing - their country being occupied by a foreign power is not the same as a Pole betraying his country

You seem to have very conveniently forgotten that a foreign power WAS involved - a foreign power big enough to make the USA uncomfortable for the duration of the Cold War - and that quite a number of Polish people were killed during the martial law; definitely not for "lying down and taking it". I somehow cannot recall anyone "applauding" Jaruzelski for his decision either (BTW, are you so in awe of him that you cannot bring yourself to type his name?).
jdthebrit 2 | 50
25 Oct 2012 #38
Sorry but you have a selective memory.
In a recent referendum, 50 per cent of Poles said Juruzelski was correct to call Martial Law and "saved" Poland.
You couldn't make it up :))
sofijufka 2 | 187
25 Oct 2012 #39
Sorry but you have a selective memory.In a recent referendum, 50 per cent of Poles said Juruzelski was correct to call Martial Law and "saved" Poland.

a link, please
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
25 Oct 2012 #40
In a recent referendum

"Recent" is the key word here. People look back on events which have become part of history and may realise that larger forces were at play then. This doesn't mean that they in any way welcomed the martial law when it was actually imposed.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 646
25 Oct 2012 #41
You couldn't make it up :))

In another poll, 99% of North Koreans said they fully supported the current regime.

The other 1% were executed.

"You couldn't make it up", indeed.
jdthebrit 2 | 50
25 Oct 2012 #42
jdthebrit:
Sorry but you have a selective memory.In a recent referendum, 50 per cent of Poles said Juruzelski was correct to call Martial Law and "saved" Poland.

a link, please

No idea - Gazeta Wyborcza reported it about 5 years ago. It was a government sponsored referundum to check the state of the nation - by whoever was in power at the time - PIS I believe - could have been SLD.....

And Magda - you are prevaricating with the facts. Which are that a great many (poorly educated) Poles still hanker after the old times when they did not have to think for themselves, and that in itself is an utter disgrace against decent folk everywhere who suffered shocking indignities, injuries to life and limb, and loss of human rights and liberty.

24 years after the event of the Round Table, I still take pleasure in supporting my wife's relatives and sneering in the face of anyone, anyone, who supported that criminal mob and who lined their pockets by signing up to Party membership.

That would include Geremek, by the way, but not Walesa, who was one of the few who actually had a pair of balls.

It doesn't matter whether that referundum was 25 years after Martial law. Jurelzelski instigated it - real Poles wanted the Russians to come, and wanted war - instead of the shameful, illegal, humiliating fate they had to suffer from that sunglass wearing buffoon and his criminal gang.

As per the original thread, where you stated that Brits are "relaxed" and go with the flow, and don't react, my countrymen would never have stood for that and would have outed the ****** kinter. Civil war.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
25 Oct 2012 #43
real Poles wanted the Russians to come, and wanted war

Did you live through this? Have you experienced it? I did, and I have. No, "real" Poles (or imaginary ones, for that matter) did not want the Russians to come, and they definitely did not want war. Where did you come up with this extraordinary idea?

my countrymen would never have stood for that and would have outed the ****** kinter. Civil war.

Remind me of the last time there was civil war in England. Like 300 years ago or more? And even that civil war was not really an uprising of the oppressed masses. How many uprisings of any kind in England? Did the English poor and downtrodden ever revolt? The answer is a resounding NO.
sofijufka 2 | 187
26 Oct 2012 #44
Did the English poor and downtrodden ever revolt?

No idea - Gazeta Wyborcza reported it about 5 years ago. It was a government sponsored referundum to check the state of the nation - by whoever was in power at the time - PIS I believe - could have been SLD.....

five years ago isn't "recently" - and it wasn't 'referendum' - only a poll .

Did the English poor and downtrodden ever revolt? The answer is a resounding NO.

oh, by they did: for example luddites,
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
26 Oct 2012 #45
Did the English poor and downtrodden ever revolt? The answer is a resounding NO.

they did Magda, it just never got written into the history books.
heard of Jack Cade? no I thought not.
The diggers? The levellers? no?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
26 Oct 2012 #46
for example luddites,

Those didn't last long, the poor devils. But I agree, I overgeneralised a tad; there was also some kind of peasant uprising in the early Middle Ages. Nevertheless, if you compare the history of England with the history of practically any continental nation, you see that the English people were always very phlegmatic in their approach to the injustices of government and economics... And even if they do riot, it never amounts to much (look at last year's London riots - most of the people involved were only interested in looting the shops). To clarify, when I say it never amounts to much, I mean that I do not see major political changes taking place as a result.
Orpheus - | 114
26 Oct 2012 #47
I do not see major political changes taking place as a result

Perhaps because most people are more or less content with the way things are. Nobody is going to starve, education is free, healthcare is universal, the police do not opress them. Why should they revolt?

Oh, there's another thing. How would you go about mounting a popular insurrection on a small, mostly flat island? It's always been that way. It doesn't make the people placid, just not suicidal.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
26 Oct 2012 #48
Perhaps because most people are more or less content with the way things are.

I'm talking about history here. Approx. 1500 years of it.

It doesn't make the people placid, just not suicidal.

I'm totally OK with that. I just don't like it when these same "non-suicidal" people then proceed to tell other nations how they should have behaved in this or that situation.
Orpheus - | 114
26 Oct 2012 #49
these same "non-suicidal" people then proceed to tell other nations how they should have behaved in this or that situation.

It's very easy to give advice on bravery from behind a keyboard, isn't it?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
26 Oct 2012 #50
I'm talking about history here. Approx. 1500 years of it.

no magda you are talking about what you might have read in selected history books.
jon357 74 | 21,817
26 Oct 2012 #51
so sir Oswald Mosley was killed by some english amateur? Oh my, I didn't know

Oh my, you either didn't know that he was jailed and then had to leave the country or you conveniently ignored that. You also probably don't know about the massive hostility against him and his kind.

One aspect of British culture that you don't see much of in PL is self organisation. The co-op (Spolem is NOT the same), the WEA, WMCs, Mutual Friendly Societies. A parallel exists in Holland certainly but in Poland there's barely a shadow of that, however I suspect that a lot of people here just don't see the point.
Barney 15 | 1,583
26 Oct 2012 #52
so sir Oswald Mosley was killed by some english amateur? Oh my, I didn't know

He is not talking about Mosley he's talking about Jaruzelski......
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
26 Oct 2012 #53
no magda you are talking about what you might have read in selected history books.

I am all for educating myself. Please name one English revolution that resulted in a change of dynasty or government, or at least seriously threatened the status quo. Something akin to the French Revolution or even the peasant uprising of Jakub Szela.
jon357 74 | 21,817
26 Oct 2012 #54
Google the English Civil War and the Glorious Revolution. You might also like to go a bit further back and look at the Peasants' Revolt. Of fast forward to the Twentieth Century and checkout the General Strike.
Harry
26 Oct 2012 #55
I am all for educating myself. Please name one English revolution that resulted in a change of dynasty or government, or at least seriously threatened the status quo.

The Magna Carta had just a little bit of an effect on the status quo.
jon357 74 | 21,817
26 Oct 2012 #56
And the Chartist Movement helped to shape modern Europe.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
26 Oct 2012 #57
English Civil War

A war between different factions of the aristocracy more than a revolution. Yeah, it created a hiccup of sorts but within several years the king had been reinstated etc.

Glorious Revolution

The name is misleading. Wiki: "The Glorious Revolution, also called the Revolution of 1688, was the overthrow of King James II of England (James VII of Scotland and James II of Ireland) by a union of English Parliamentarians with the Dutch stadtholder William III of Orange-Nassau (William of Orange). William's successful invasion of England with a Dutch fleet and army led to his ascending of the English throne as William III of England jointly with his wife Mary II of England."

Rich people squabbling with other rich people over the throne of England.

General Strike.

Sounded promising until I read the following: Wiki: "The 1926 general strike in the United Kingdom was a general strike that lasted nine days, from 4 May 1926 to 13 May 1926. It was called by the general council of the Trades Union Congress (TUC) in an unsuccessful attempt to force the British government to act to prevent wage reduction and worsening conditions for 800,000 locked-out coal miners. Some 1.7 million workers went out, especially in transport and heavy industry. The government was prepared and enlisted middle class volunteers to maintain essential services. There was little violence and the TUC gave up in defeat. In the long run, there was little impact on trade-union activity or industrial relations."

Peasants' Revolt.

I had mentioned the Peasants' Revolt earlier. I agree, this is what I am talking about when I say "revolution". But c'mon. Nothing since 1381?
jon357 74 | 21,817
26 Oct 2012 #58
A war between different factions of the aristocracy more than a revolution. Yeah, it created a hiccup of sorts but within several years the king had been reinstated etc.

That's certainly an interesting interpretation, though rather wide of the mark. More than just 'a hiccup of sorts'!

Rich people squabbling with other rich people over the throne of England.

Again a misinterpretation. Try not to confuse English history with Polish history, which has been centuries of the rich squabbling over the rich - indeed that could be a good title of a book about the First Republic.

There was little violence

You think that's a bad thing? Certainly a contrast to the failed Coup d'état in Warsaw in the same period. Some of the longer term benefits of the General Strike affect your life now.
enkidu 7 | 623
26 Oct 2012 #59
Yeah Peasant revolt in 13-something. They burn parts of London. They kill some people and steal some stuff.
Then the Major of London went to talk wit the leader of the Revolt. The talk was short and the Mayor stab the Leader in the neck with his dagger. You think that the peasant were enraged by this? Well not really.

The next day the young King addressed them "You scum, you dirt, you goatshakers! If you think that you are equal wit the Lords - I can see no reason to let you live".

Se they went back home.
End of revolt. :)
uk expat 1 | 11
26 Oct 2012 #60
Actually...lol

There is no English spirit anymore. We are weak. It ended with Thatcher (sniff). England is not mighty anymore, will never win another war and is open to any rape/corruption/abuse that you can throw at it. Discuss.


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