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Mixed feelings after moving from Poland to England


grufferator 1 | -    
17 Apr 2018  #1
Hello all,

I'm originally from Eastern Europe. I moved with my wife to Poland 2 years ago, then moved to UK this year. The main reason why we decided to move was that we felt like outsiders. We worked in a foreign company. All the communication was in English and we did not manage to learn Polish. Learning Polish fluently and integrating into the society felt like an impossible task. We did find jobs quite easy in UK and the salaries and much higher than in Poland, but the quality of life did not improve. We did manage to save some money in these 3 months, but that's only due to the fact that we live in a very small shared flat.

Pros of living in UK:
1. Everyone speaks English
2. Easy to find a job
3. Free healthcare

Cons of living in UK:
1. Housing is expensive and the quality is crap
2. Public transport is expensive
3. Going out is expensive
4. There's garbage everywhere - on the streets, in the parks, near the houses, on bus stops
5. High crime rates
6. General feeling of insecurity when walking in the evenings
7. The green spaces are not integrated into the cities; there are block of flats or residential neighborhoods and there are parks with fences around
8. There's a general feeling of insecurity about this country's future

Did anyone have the same experience? Did you move back to Poland or did you stay in UK? Why?
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
  17 Apr 2018  #2
Learning Polish fluently and integrating into the society felt like an impossible task

Do you feel integrated into UK society? According to the BBC the modern UK is simply a place where lots of people with nothing in common live near each other and the only common elements are empty, undefined slogans....

Who do you socialize with?

we did not manage to learn Polish

What kind of efforts did you make? Lots of people put in very... misdirected and inefficient efforts and then when it doesn't work right away they give up. I take it your first language isn't slavic (since most Slavic speakers learn without much effort) so that means Polish would be more difficult but it's very doable though being a couple is a little harder (since you're already each other's primary company).

The simple fact is that any kind of migration is traumatic and will at times lead to feelings of alienation and not fitting in. Lots of things in the media try to portray it as a simple process with no emotional burden but that's a lie. Just recognizing that you've chosen a difficult path that inherently comes with occasional feelings of regret and second thoughts and alienation can be a help in dealing with those feelings when they arise.

The idea of assimilation was a way of dealing with those negative aspects of migration as it gave those moving a long term goal to work for, but no one is supposed to assimilate now because what can you assimilate to in the UK? It's like trying to carry water in a basket.

In Poland at least there are things to assimilate to (or integrate with). It's not easy but ultimately is probably more psychologically healthy.
cms neuf - | 533    
17 Apr 2018  #3
When I was younger I moved back to U.K. after living in the US and found it quite difficult. It has three main problems- it is crowded and this properties are cramped, it is expensive and to get on in a career you often need to be in London.

I think for you one of the main problems is that you are married but you are living in a shared flat - that's not the way things should be! Find a way to fix that so you can properly start your married life and get some time to yourselves and other problems might also improve.

The other thing to do is focus on some of the things that are advantage about Britain - you can get quite quickly and cheaply to the seaside or to beautiful countryside or wonderful old towns. It has very good culture and in some things like music, museums, watching football, shopping etc it is the best place in Europe. I also think the people are great and can be very genuine and helpful.

Agree with most of your cons except the one about garbage - one thing I dislike about Poland is the huge litter problem, and Poles seem to think nothing of strewing the forests and beaches with their trash.

Asked to the sense of uncertainty about the future in Britain - that's not going to go away, in fact it's obviously going to get worse. Brexit is going to bring a lot of economic difficulties and it'll take decades for the divisions created by the process to heal.

Put your tin hat on now,- once the Americans wake up they will start to make this a discussion about Muslim migration, cucks and the mainstream media.
CasualObserver    
19 Apr 2018  #4
neighborhoods

So you came from "Eastern Europe" to Poland, and then to the UK. So why are you writing English using American phraseology and spelling? You haven't learnt that in Europe. One of the forum's American trolls, perhaps? Sounds like Dirk.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,046    
19 Apr 2018  #5
American phraseology and spelling

While I agree he is a troll, I can't see any of the above.
CasualObserver    
19 Apr 2018  #6
"garbage" - British English rarely uses this, and not in conversation (the term would be "rubbish").
"neighborhoods" - American spelling. Classic.
"in UK", "to UK" - missing the definite article.

The post is written very fluently, like a moderately educated native-speaker. But that native speaker seems to be North American.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
19 Apr 2018  #7
"in UK", "to UK" - missing the definite article.

Not American where it would always be 'the UK' (or casually "England")
Lyzko 17 | 5,257    
19 Apr 2018  #8
@grufferator,

You did finally realize though that integrating into any society and learning the language are one and the same, am I right?
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
19 Apr 2018  #9
no, they're two separate things, language learning is only the first, necessary step to integration
Lyzko 17 | 5,257    
19 Apr 2018  #10
Nonetheless, it's clearly the most important! Maybe on the surface level, Poles, Germans, Swedes etc. seem to communicate "fluently" in English, once the novelty wears off (generally sooner rather than later in this man's experience), newbies LIVING, and not just visiting, abroad, will eventually thank their lucky stars that they made an effort to learn the target language.
toby00    
21 Nov 2018  #11
You must have lived in a ****** area when you were in England. It's easy to generalise when you have no clue. Typical of the Polish. They often complain about the U.K and the natives but are part of the problem too. You could always return back to your native country if you don't like it in England.
sa11y 5 | 332    
21 Nov 2018  #12
He is not Polish
Lyzko 17 | 5,257    
21 Nov 2018  #13
That is correct, I'm not Polish.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
23 Nov 2018  #14
I take it your first language isn't slavic (since most Slavic speakers learn without much effort)

Unfortunately it may not be always true for all the Slavic speakers, especially those who didn't have any exposure to Polish previously. After some practice I'm capable to understand about 80% of simple Polish texts, but things are getting much worse when a person like me goes to more advanced texts, audial comprehension and speaking. Pronunciation is very hard and unique, and I didn't remark my audial comprehension of Polish would progress a lot even after listening to a lot of Polish movies and audios. I think for many adult people it may take many years to grasp Polish well. There are many similarities with other Slavic languages, but many differences as well.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
23 Nov 2018  #15
I think for many adult people it may take many years to grasp Polish wel

I've never heard of a Russian speaker living in Poland who couldn't become very fluent (and understand almost everything) within about three months.

It takes Croatian speakers about two weeks to re-calibrate their ears and then they go from understanding almost nothing upon arrival to vast amounts (without special study, with study it's faster)
delphiandomine 85 | 16,864    
23 Nov 2018  #16
I've got the same in the opposite direction. I went on a tour of Tito's villa in Igalo (near Herceg-Novi in Montenegro) and after getting fed up with the English translation, I just listened to the guy speaking in...their language and understood plenty of it. It helps that I know some basics in BCMS and I've spent years studying the 1990's in the Balkans, but still, I was approaching it as a Polish speaker who was merely familiar with the melody of the language.

A great regret of mine is never having been able to spend some serious amounts of time there, especially in Sarajevo with the rich influence of Arabic/Turkish on the language.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
23 Nov 2018  #17
What I like the least about foreign languages is a different way of pronunciation. Even after decades of exposure to English I still feel very uncomfortable when listening to regular and fast American English which is spoken on TV or in movies and understand quite a little sometimes. Fortunately private conversation is much easier and I feel no principal problems here. Either I still speak with remarkable accent most of time, though can do it a bit better if I want. I find that Canadian variety of English is more pleasant for me than US variety (which is especially difficult to comprehend). Also I find French and Polish pronunciation difficult.
Gaz350z    
23 Nov 2018  #18
Wow. Where the hell do you live in England?

3 good points and 8 bad points?

My house which is a 2 bed terraced was £37,000. It's made from 18" thick granite stones and is as solid as a rock. Or granite. It's been stood for 200 years.

Public transport is expensive. I drive but I get to work all week for £21 on the bus. 9.9 miles there 9.9 miles back. Nearly 100 miles a week.

Going out is expensive? Where do you go? There are all kinds of things to do and places to go that are cheap. You just have to look.

Garbage everywhere? Again, where do you live? Are you saying the entire of the UK is simply covered in garbage? There's none where I live. I can't remember the last time I saw a load of garbage lying around. Maybe in a busy city centre like Manchester.

Crime. I repeat, where do you live? I can walk around pretty much anywhere and not feel threatened. I can have my window open at night and I can't hear a single thing. No one is around. It's that quiet.

Green spaces are not integrated into cities? Well, if you live in a city, that's kind of how it is. England is small. Places are densely populated.

It sounds to me that, you've ended up in a very urban area with a high population and have formed an opinion of the whole of England on that basis. I can understand it. I work for a company that is 98% Polish staffed. It's in Rochdale which is, to be honest, a dump. The Polish all live in local tower blocks and flats and council estates. They say the same as you. It's a dump/it's untidy/it's noisy/it's expensive etc etc.

They seem to think that's the only option available to them. Live in a dirty urban environment because that's where work is. They have no idea that just a few miles away, in a beautiful setting, there are cheaper, better built houses, where they can feel safe and welcome and experience a more authentic Britain in a village setting.

Don't slap a claim on England when you very clearly have only a very small experience to draw on.
Miloslaw 6 | 627    
23 Nov 2018  #19
Brilliant post!
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
24 Nov 2018  #20
Crime. I repeat, where do you live?

he likely lives in one of the 'diverse' 'culturally enriched' areas of UK where british people are a minority i.e. london, birmingham, etc. even newcastle has such parts
Joker 1 | 751    
  24 Nov 2018  #21
london,

You must be talking about Londionstan, its become a real hell hole in that city!

Im going back to England this coming April, not really looking forward to that gloomy place at all.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  24 Nov 2018  #22
i was in uk a few months back visiting my fam. spent a week in london and the rest in newcastle which a bit nicer, mainly because theres far more europeans than third worlders. in londonistan the wealthy areas now have bums sleeping in front of stores, gypsies begging and stealing from places like harrods, plenty of ninjas and neckbeards as well as congolese who forced the local youth to up their game... one of the worst jobs in london is to be a delivery driver or food courier as they call them. everytime they go out non European youths try to jack their bikes. naturally the police cant do **** as their only weapon is a whistle. they managed to beat nyc crime rate using just melee weapons lol
Miloslaw 6 | 627    
24 Nov 2018  #23
Wrong Dirk....The Met have started ramming bikes with Police cars to catch these bastards.
63 in London alone so far this year....videos are online if you care to search for them.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
24 Nov 2018  #24
here some w youths jacking and trying to jack food delivery driver

youtu.be/sG8KJumM7Pw
youtu.be/cgCtLRQkkro
youtu.be/pGdrF_6qUqY

if the met is ramming thieves off mopeds i salute them
Miloslaw 6 | 627    
  24 Nov 2018  #25
Here ya go Dirk! Enjoy!!!
independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/moped-crime-phone-snatching-robbery-london-police-cars-ramming-crackdown-a8648516.html
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  25 Nov 2018  #26
nice to see some british cops finally growing a pair. now if their leaders gave them actual weapons like every other self respecting police force like mace, pistol, etc they wouldnt need to use their cars. instead of actually using the police to crack down on murders esp in london, which recently exceeded nyc, and give them tools to do their job they instead spend millions on a thought crime police force to fine and arrest anyone that posts uncomfortable facts about multiculturalism, especially the muslim child grooming squads which the uk isnt too keen on cracking down on either. yup because going after people expressing their thoughts is definetely a bigger problem than stabbings, child grooming gangs, etc. oh but dont think for a second theyll crack down on known isis/al nusra/al qaeda supporters who march with sharia 4 uk signs and yell britain go to tell. nope arrests and fines for freedom of speech are only for those who dont toe the pc multikulti line.

the police in uk are pathetic so this imo is a move in the right direction. previously the cops would let the thiefs go because they were too scared of liberals whining that a purse snatcher got injured. now theyre finally doing something about it. still its a shame that most cops dont even have mace, let alone a gun. thats why they end up in situations where 4 muslims stomp on a cop and he cant even defend himself, much less go after violent criminals. the criminals in the uk know the cops are defenseless so they fight back and run. you think a career criminal is going to stop just because you whistle at him lol?
Braveheart16 14 | 105    
25 Nov 2018  #27
now if their leaders gave them actual weapons like every other self respecting police force like mace, pistol, etc they wouldnt need to use their cars.

Just to put the record straight, certain squads in the British police force are armed and operate in various situations. I think you will find that a high percentage of the public in the UK are reassured by the fact that not all police officers are armed and that they can rely on special units with armed officers to deal with particular situations. I think the UK public do not want to encourage a rise in gun crime by arming all police officers but having certain armed police units is really seen as sufficient support. At the end of the day the UK do not really want to see a situation arise such as in the USA where gun control seems to be out of control and where the gun lobby is an all powerful body preventing any attempt to reduce the sale of arms or make meaningful changes to gun law. In short most people in the UK do not want to see a situation arise where the general approach is 'my gun is bigger than yours'....its just asking for trouble. London is experiencing a rise in knife crime and some other areas and I can see that something needs to be done about it.....giving police officers guns is not really in my view the most effective way to supress crime, but would only serve to inflame it. As for British police 'finally growing a pair' I think you will find that they are respected worldwide for their professionalism and work under difficult circumstances.....these are brave and respected police officers who 'grew their pair' a long, long time ago.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,166    
  25 Nov 2018  #28
now if their leaders gave them actual weapons like every other self respecting police force like mace, pistol, etc they wouldnt need to use their cars.

So you would advocate shooting at moving targets? I wonder how long it would be before members of the public got shot instead of the criminals. Still, I suppose a few dead innocent bystanders are just collateral damage as far as you're concerned.

I think the UK public do not want to encourage a rise in gun crime by arming all police officers

I would stand by that. There are enough innocent victims of police shootings in the US, no need to have that in the UK.

London is experiencing a rise in knife crime and some other areas and I can see that something needs to be done about it....

Since 2010, we have lost 20,000 police officers from our streets due to austerity measures. The government would have us all believe that this had had no effect on the rise in crime, but I disagree. When there is no longer a visible police presence, criminals become bolder. More officers back on the street would be a start towards dealing with the problem.
delphiandomine 85 | 16,864    
25 Nov 2018  #29
More officers on the street, but also more officers living and working in problematic areas. I remember reading a book by one ex-Met detective, and he made the point that moving away from local policing was an absolutely awful idea, because officers no longer had an idea of what was going on. They'd be going into communities and being met with a wall of silence - which only works if these are officers from outside.
Bulgos    
25 Nov 2018  #30
I'm Bulgarian and studied one year of basic Russian. Lived a year in Slovakia surrounded by Slovak language everywhere. I understand a lot of spoken Polish but written one is very very hard. While I like CZ, SZ being unique compared to Č and Š, having them appear so often close together causes my mind to block. "Szcz" for example. Czech and Slovak ortography is much easier although Czech is much more harder for me to understand when spoken. I love Ż more than Ž though (not fan of haček). But if Polish had S with a dot and C with a dot it would be easier to read for foreigners: Ṡċecin instead of Szczecin.



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