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Are Polish people importing a new wave of ancient racism into the UK?


Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #91
I had to laugh at the post claiming British people are tolerant and open-minded.

I wouldn't describe it as tolerance or open-mindedness, people are just starting to care less and less about ethnicity. With some places having huge multi-ethnic populations, such as London, people growing up and living there are desensitized to the shock of such a diverse society. It's not a conscious effort, it's just apathy, albeit the best kind. I remember at school we only had one black student in every thousand (and of course no black teachers) but the black students were never thought of as different or discriminated against, even the ones that came directly from Africa. They're so good at integrating that they're culturally indistuingishable from the native white British population. Nobody even bats an eye if someone dates a black person, even though it is a rare sight, but nobody sees anything wrong with it. Asians, on the other hand, are quite racist. The stubbornness of religion + the Indian caste system makes the Pakistani Asians horrible at assimilating. Inter-racial, even inter-caste, relationships are a big deal to them. It's really entirely their own problem.
David_18 68 | 982
25 Jun 2010 #92
Face it, Brittish people are racist. Most of them atleast.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jun 2010 #93
David, that's absolute nonsense! Read Matowy's post above.
milky 13 | 1,657
25 Jun 2010 #94
The majority of ignorant people in England may be racist but they usually contain it in their over-idenification with soccer tribalism like their partners elsewhere.

...
No just ones like this
...
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
25 Jun 2010 #95
I used to not like it either, because I thought we should be together in peace in a monocultural society, but the more I saw Europe fill up with non-europeans from the 3rd world, I thought, hey wait a minute, this is boot-camp! This is where our young, eager and brave boys get their aggression out. They are playing war and using tactics, exercising to be in great shape for hand to hand combat, they are feeling adrenaline rush and bonding with other poles at their age! They are staying sharp and focused as well as maintaining a level of awarness. So when the day comes that the blacks discover Poland/Poland get's a western style welfare system, they are ready for them.

In the rest of Europe, like in Scandinavia, although many are real tough and well trained, we are too few, and the PC brainwashing has subdued the rest, and made sports into a family thing. Macho is out, and staying home with the kid and washing the dishes is seen as "modern", while being out with the boys and being a man is "racist" or "stupid".

So, go on Polish football hooligans, keep training, working out, fighting and get the feeling of brotherhood...it's gonna save your asses when the day comes.

Dariusz
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
25 Jun 2010 #96
Hah, not even if immigration were fully stopped would your country be saved from a major cultural/racial change.

Not exactly something which anyone with a hint of education regarding this countries history is unduly worried about old chap.
Lets seeTurn of the ADs Start of Roman Imperial rule,run along side for a time old British customs of Celtic,european origin.
Post Roman rule,which saw a massive influx of people and cultures from across the Empire anyway, we had "invasions" and assimalations of people from all over Northern Europe upto and including the Norman (nee Viking) invasion and semi conquest of 1066.

For the next few hundred years we saw changes in our sociaty on massive fluctuating scale and rule by kings and queens from all parts of what is now called France not to mention once the reformation began(getting rid of papist influence in our state affairs) we became a safe haven for various protestant groups untill they decided to bugger off to the new world,since then weve had Germans and Dutch on the throne and mixtures of all of them,our ports have always been multicultural our cities too in many ways,especially in the last 2 to 3 hundred years,everything changes,nothing stays the same,if it does it dies,period. "Eastern " influence on this country started a long time before any mass wave of immigration,Victoria was obbssessed with two countries,Scotland and India and both became highly fashionable.

So,in short,get over yerself fella,you lot might quack in your boots at the sight of a couple of curry houses opening on ul bigotski but we in Britain,in general, are rather more relaxed about change.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
25 Jun 2010 #97
Post Roman rule,which saw a massive influx of people and cultures from across the Empire anyway, we had "invasions" and assimalations of people from all over Northern Europe upto and including the Norman (nee Viking) invasion and semi conquest of 1066.

True, European immigration. Now you are experiencing a big influx from muslim immigrants that have no respect for your history, values or whatever you represent. Times have changed and it would be naive to think you're walking on safe soil.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
25 Jun 2010 #98
I lived in Amsterdam, a place infested with blacks :)

I never felt unsafe, sweetie, never :)

What,not even the dodgy "you buy crack,coke,smack,peeels"Somali fekkers of Dam square,come on,those are scary bleeders.....

Times have changed and it would be naive to think you're walking on safe soil.

Oh,dont get me wrong, I dont like "muslim" influence,but let me tell you,I live in the North(ish) of england,a small,mostly white market town but most of the large cities near abouts do have muslim populations,trouble is I dont see them influencing anyone. Theres certainly not a rush to convert to islam,most of the corner shops now are not "paki" shops but Polski skleps,frankly a nice curry,rice and mango chuttny are far closer to " British" food than pierogi,lumps of fat and dodgy mielonka in a tin! (no offence ;) )

I suppose what you are angling at is that these muslims are like some sort of 5th column,just waiting to pounce when us "native" european christians(and by the way,dont pull that all christians together crap as England was the target for the last Papal Crusade!!) have our backs turned or have somehow given up our way of life to "them"...I havent given up a single thing since 9/11 or earlier,lets say the mid 70s when I was born which coincided with the rise of fundamentalist islam, so what do you think I will give up in the future,and Im a "liberal".

I also know a little first hand about being painted with the same brush as people with similar names , I grew up with a very obviously Irish name and all that came with it when we had micks blowing people up left right and centre in shops, hotels, pubs and clubs,when I signed up for the forces I had to under go an indepth security check purely for having a father born in Dublin, even years later,on your countries border during a passport check mine(the only "irish" name) and a lad called mohhamed were the only ones double checked,kinda brought home bigotry again for me.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
25 Jun 2010 #99
when I signed up for the forces I had to under go an indepth security check purely for having a father born in Dublin

This happened to me too in the norwegian army. I was serving in the beginning of the 90's and the wall had just come down. My father was a polish citizen, and even though they had given me a rather expensive education within intelligence, I was mowing the lawn outside the norwegian military headquarters for 2 months before I got to have my clearance that I was not a communist or that my father was.

Europe was a more divided country back then, but your background has to be one of the more extreme ones. I don't think any conflict in Europe comes close to that of the English/Irish one. Too bad it still is alive today. I don't want this to happen in Poland with any minority, as it is repeating itself with the muslims all over western Europe. We are creating future civil war!

Dariusz
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
25 Jun 2010 #100
I live in the North(ish) of england,a small,mostly white market town but most of the large cities near abouts do have muslim populations,trouble is I dont see them influencing anyone.

Does the rule that "a Muslim man may marry a Christian or a Jew, but a Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim" ring any bells? Show me a local Muslim woman who was allowed to marry a partner who agreed to convert to Islam - in the North, a non-Muslim man hasn't got a cat in hell's chance of even being given that option! It's always the other way round - and you know why that is.

I havent given up a single thing since 9/11 or earlier,lets say the mid 70s when I was born which coincided with the rise of fundamentalist islam, so what do you think I will give up in the future,and Im a "liberal".

When they are the majority, you may not have a choice but to give something up - look up jizyah and you may find that the only choice you have is to either convert, or to pay the extra tax - some "choice" that is!

frankly a nice curry,rice and mango chuttny are far closer to " British" food than pierogi,lumps of fat and dodgy mielonka in a tin! (no offence ;) )

To be fair, those Polish foods are much closer to English dumplings, lard and tinned "Spam" than they are to Indian food! Mind you, I like all three (English, Polish and Indian food, that is!)
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #101
So, go on Polish football hooligans, keep training, working out, fighting and get the feeling of brotherhood...it's gonna save your asses when the day comes.

This has to rank pretty high on the list of dumbest things you've said. Everyone may be willing to play Emperor's New Clothes with you indefinitely, but make no mistake; you are by far one of the dumbest people possible. If it weren't for your Norwegian background your English probably wouldn't be so deceptively eloquent, and your real self would show more often.

even though they had given me a rather expensive education within intelligence

An expensive education maybe, you do have an air of arrogance and pompousness about you, but it takes real intelligence to be able to use that education. Without a doubt, pissing diamonds down a toilet is less wasteful than trying to educate you on anything that requires logic or objectivity. People like you never learn to think with their brains, only their primitive urges.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
25 Jun 2010 #102
Even dumber are people who actually write what you just wrote. You show that you have no clue about football or the culture within it. And you have nothing to answer me with...besides insults...so what does that say about you? I speak from experience, as I've followed a football team for many years and have learned about group thinking and how one reacts when confronted either verbally or physically. I've been scared shitless, and felt the adrenaline rush when being outnumbered and facing serious injury. It has taught me important things. I feel this is important in todays society, where you will face these emotions not only on the terraces, but in the streets of european cities. Poland having a big hooligan scene are better prepared to meet this reality than some metro-sexualized youths in western Europe, when they meet highly macho 3rd world people. Just look around on youtube. This is one example you can look at;

youtube.com/watch?v=yWfetF1jCO4

An expensive education maybe, you do have an air of arrogance and pompousness about you, but it takes real intelligence to be able to use that education. Without a doubt, pissing diamonds down a toilet is less wasteful than trying to educate you on anything that requires logic or objectivity. People like you never learn to think with their brains, only their primitive urges.

Sorry for sounding arrogant. I don't try to. You're the only one (maybe one more in here has mentioned it) that have called me arrogant. Tell me your story then. Or your vision. I'm actually interested to hear it. On whatever topic you feel I fail. In this case, football tribalism and the future of our countries. Cause just venting like you just did doesn't make you poster of the week either.

Dariusz
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #103
Even dumber are people who actually write what you just wrote. You show that you have no clue about football or the culture within it.

No, I know enough about it. I know that the football culture is primitive, for simple-minded people. No good comes from it, it is just a step back in mans evolutionary timeline.

And you have nothing to answer me with...besides insults...so what does that say about you?

I am not insulting you, I think that you should know that your views are absolutely moronic. The paths of logic you follow would appear almost alien if they weren't so simplistic. It takes a special kind of stupidity to think that football hooliganism is the way forward.

I speak from experience, as I've followed a football team for many years and have learned about group thinking and how one reacts when confronted either verbally or physically. I've been scared shitless, and felt the adrenaline rush when being outnumbered and facing serious injury. It has taught me important things.

No it hasn't, you derived from it what twisted lessons you could possibly try based on your ideology.

I feel this is important in todays society, where you will face these emotions not only on the terraces, but in the streets of european cities.

Basic knowledge of self defence is all that is needed. Football culture is entrenched in creating violence; it is not based defence, not even a little. What you're basically saying is that you want more violence.

Poland having a big hooligan scene are better prepared to meet this reality

This is one example of the stupidity which you display. Again, not an insult, your logic is just terrible, and it's clear you have 0 objectivity about the things you claim to know a lot about. This makes all your alleged experiences worthless, because you don't have the objectivity or intelligence to analyze them and reach sensible and realistic conclusions. A person with normal brain functions would, for example, know that these hooligans are a part of the problem of violence, they aren't some defence league. They're called hooligans for a reason; because they're stupid and violent.

than some metro-sexualized youths in western Europe, when they meet highly macho 3rd world people.

And here we have you trying to shoehorn your ideology into this. What do third worlders have to do with this? If you want people to be more tough then that's one thing, but bringing immigration into it is another sign of your lack of objectivity.

This is one example you can look at;

Completely irrelevant to the discussion. It's some bouncer doing his job. Relevance?

football tribalism and the future of our countries.

It's an oxymoron, and it's amazing that you can't see that. "Tribalism" and "Future" do not belong anywhere in the same sentence. Tribalism is detrimental to development, it takes exquisite feats of denial to think otherwise.
milky 13 | 1,657
25 Jun 2010 #104
Soccer tribalism is just the containment of the most brainless people in society..There needs to be a solution to immigration but to think that a bunch of mentally ill sexually frustrated,uneducated scumbags could be part of the solution is absolute nonsense..If an enemy came near these pussies they would **** their pance run home to their mammies.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
25 Jun 2010 #105
We obviously are on two different planets. That doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing, but if you continue to just slag people off, and talk down to them...well...let's just say I've encountered "debaters" like you before. You have no answers, just insults, and it fits very well in with the PC crowd. If you have no argument, then just attack the person.

I don't know how you can claim what you do in your post, but obviously you attending some university full of left-wing professors and student-clubs somewhere has alienated you from reality.

Basic knowledge of self defence is all that is needed.

That sentence fails on so many levels. Are you going to "karate-kid" 5 thugs? If you know how they act, how they think and where they come from, your chances of surviving increases by about 100%. Getting a black belt in karate class will not help you that much. It's more about psychology than actual physical contact. (You would know this if you actually experienced it Matowy....).

Who says that my logic has to be your logic? Who's being arrogant now? I believe what I do, and state so here. You state what you believe, plus insults. That shows that you are nothing but a second hand, pompeous, wanna-be intellectual who thinks he's above whatever the "riff-raff" is doing. That is SO LEFTIST of you!

And here we have you trying to shoehorn your ideology into this. What do third worlders have to do with this? If you want people to be more tough then that's one thing, but bringing immigration into it is another sign of your lack of objectivity.

Have you read the title of this thread? It's not my "ideology", it's REALITY. It's about racism, Europe and Poland. I say, the more a people are ready for violence and force, as we are seeing everyday in our cities, the easier it will be for us to stop it. A big part of the Polish male youths are ready to take on the violent muslims, thanks to the football scene. Most of the western youth, unfortunately are not. Just go into any nightclub in a western city and see all the guys with "man-bags", sunglasses, colourful shirts and hair-gel...and then walk into a nightclub in eastern-Europe. You will instantly see the difference. Who do you think will be controlled easier? Who will be easier to rob, put in their place or beaten up? Have you been in a nightclub in Europe, if a group of muslims or 3rd world immigrants walk in? Have you seen what happens to the atmosphere and the tension that immidiately comes with them? Why do you think immigrant groups are always refused entrance at nightclubs? By immigrant bouncers! I saw a whole group of boys being bullied by one guy in a nightclub one time last year. He wasn't even bigger than them, he just knew how to control the situation. It was horrible to watch. I don't think this would happen in Poland.

I also went to a game in Bialystok a couple of months ago against Ruch Chorzow, and I have to tell you, it was a pretty fearsome experience. 95% were young, short haired, sunseed(!) eating men. If they ever would meet any of my gang, we would get beaten soundly. What goes for "tough" here in the west, is not that tough at all....but why am I telling you this, you are sitting on your high horse, telling people they are dumb, uneducated and have no logic if they don't agree with you. If they want to live life, feel alive, being with friends and follow football as is done in eastern Europe, what's wrong with that? Would it be better if they were pussies? Try reading some books like on this list;

ave-it.net/Football%20hooligan_books.htm

Alot of them will tell you about successfull businessmen, familymen, policmen, lawyers and even doctors going to games every week, feeling the adrenaline, feeling alive. I don't think you've ever done that, if you say the things you say. Or you're just wired differently than the rest of us.

Completely irrelevant to the discussion. It's some bouncer doing his job. Relevance?

Ok, you're clearly not getting the point. The bouncer is German, the troublemaker is turkish, he is wildly aggressive and attacks verbally and with his bodylanguage. If you are tough and trained, like the 5 times world champion kick-boxer doorman, you will not be afraid. If polish youth experience fear, aggression and intimidation, they will be better suited for future experiences involving these things! But if all they know is karate from their local club, they're doomed...this thug acts like this because he has gotten away with it in Germany, a country pacified by PC media and the thought police, he spits on the German wimpy males...but suddenly he encounters one that stands up to him, and leaves whimpering away. Again, this would not happen in Poland either, becasue the bouncers are hard-asses and tough guys! In Norway I would say 75% of all the bouncers in Oslo are foreign. There's a reason for that.

I can only tell you my experiences, my life and my world. This will as you bashed me for, make me have "0 objectivity". What is this, a book club? My worldview obviously differs from yours. And since you live in the U.K, you have been brainwashed by the PC media, schooling system and newspapers. They know zero about the real life, and if they know anything, they hide it. Just like they did here in Norway the other day, when a norwegian youth got beaten by 15 immigrants in Oslo. It eventually came out who did it and who the victim was. But the media just said, "Youths, victim" in their reports, deliberately avoiding the facts. It's 1984 all over again. And you seem to live in this life, where the streets don't exist, only the cantina at your university or your coffee shop, where you sit on you mac and sip your latte, telling people like me that "You're dumb"....keep on doing this, Matowy, it only backfires on yourself, and makes you look like the ignorant and pompeous..

I don't know, I feel like talking to deaf ears here Matowy...

Dariusz
Pierdolski - | 31
25 Jun 2010 #106
Poles are very racist, period.

Define racist.

If Poles want to preserve their pureness, their people and their customs and traditions, what's wrong with that?
David_18 68 | 982
25 Jun 2010 #108
@DariuszTelka

Very well written, couldn't agree more. Thank you.
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #109
We obviously are on two different planets.

Thanks, kettle. Stick to actual proper discussion as opposed to this silly "You're insulting me, boo hoo!" nonsense that you're putting on.

And by all means, do proceed to make assumptions about my background to try and build a straw man argument. It won't work, of course, but maybe it's an effective coping mechanism for you.

That sentence fails on so many levels.

VERY nice. Specify a hypothetical, then when a realistic and sensible solution to tha hypothetical is given, alter the parameters of the hypothetical so that the previously proposed solution no longer applies, and THEN declare how impractical and silly the previous solution was. Don't waste my time.

What "violent muslims"? Specific examples please. Which Islamic organizations in Europe are dedicated to creating "tough third world" muslims with the intention of... just being violent? If anything, I think it's clear your views are influenced by a few experiences you've had. Probably you've been attacked by some Arab kids, in your unfortunately undeveloped mental state you somehow attribute this to them being Muslims (???) so you can paint a picture of a Europe-wide threat in which your experiences and conclusions drawn are justified. Well no, get real and grow the **** up. Maybe you've been unlucky at times, but deal with it. Learn to think as well, because as I keep stating, your lack of proper application of logic is disheartening.

I agree that Western European kids tend to be soft, but that's such a different matter. In any case there's nothing to be done about it, it's their choice.

I don't think this would happen in Poland.

Again, what does this have to do with a religious group or immigration? I was under the impression (at least here in the UK) that Muslims do not enter night clubs because they do not consume alcohol.

If they want to live life, feel alive, being with friends and follow football as is done in eastern Europe, what's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. In fact most people do that through natural social impulse. What you're failing to mention is that football hooligans are specifically named so because of their tendency to initiate pointless violence, which breaks the law.

I have no doubt that football games are atmospheric, and I do not care one bit. This discussion is not about football.

Ok, you're clearly not getting the point. The bouncer is German, the troublemaker is turkish, he is wildly aggressive and attacks verbally and with his bodylanguage. If you are tough and trained, like the 5 times world champion kick-boxer doorman, you will not be afraid.

Oh my god, you just blew my mind. Thet tall, thin, loud-mouthed unthreatening guy is Turkish - Turkish people are largely Muslim - therefore MUSLIMS LIKE TO CAUSE VIOLENCE !!! Your logic makes perfect sense.

Oh, and also, because the bouncer is German - Germany invaded Poland and killed millions of Jews, Slavs and Romani - therefore Michael Kuhr is an EVIL NAZI SLAV-HATING RACIST !!! Thanks for bestowing me with your logic, now the world makes perfect sense in its simplicity.

Sarcasm aside, the Turkish guy is completely non-threatening and not even "macho". I'm sure there are better examples out there, but this one is just pointless. It's exactly what it looks like on the surface; a rude and dumb kid trying to get into a club, the bouncer turns him away in the midst of verbal abuse. It's pretty standard, I don't see what pattern there is supposed to be in this.

I'm seeing the pattern here, whenever you encounter immigration going smoothly (which it usually does), you feel the need to label the circumstances "PC". It's a very common, and boring, tactic among your type. You think you're the only person in the world with experience, and everyone else just reads newspapers? Nie, sorry friend, the world is more complicated than you give it credit. For the record, very little violence in the UK is due to immigration. My town is one of the worst in the UK, and it's 99% white. I don't feel threatened or intimidated when in an immigrant neighbourhood at all, there are even a few Turks and Arabs here. The most dangerous neighbourhoods are the ones that are 100% white, due to gang violence, alcohol, drugs, etc. Instead of being a bigoted moron, I don't attribute ethnic or religious factors to this, because there's no point and no relevance. I'm sorry you grew up in some urban nightmare in a metropolitan Norwegian city, I can't say I envy you, but you simply don't factor into your conclusions that your experiences are very limited and do not speak for the whole of Europe. Be as anti-Turk-Arab-Muslim-Immigrant as you want in your hometown or Norway, since that is where your experience and relevance is, but it's clear you know nothing about how immigration works in the rest of Europe. Certainly not the United Kingdom.

They know zero about the real life, and if they know anything, they hide it. Just like they did here in Norway the other day, when a norwegian youth got beaten by 15 immigrants in Oslo. It eventually came out who did it and who the victim was. But the media just said, "Youths, victim" in their reports, deliberately avoiding the facts.

And whenever Polish immigrants commit a crime in the UK, do the newspapers scream about the fact that they're an immigrant? No they don't. Sometimes they give a name, sometimes they don't, but it rarely happens that they will say "Some Poles comitted X crimes". They will say "People", "Youths" or whatever, because usually the immigrant label is irrelevant. Trust me, an easy case can be made for the Poles in the UK being violent and confrontational, all the traits you apply to the "Muslims", but how do you think it works in reality? I can make a well-evidenced case for the Poles being nothing but evil, violent, money-sucking criminals in the UK, and I can make a well-evidenced case for them being polite hard workers, and great for the local economy. The point is that I can spin it any way I please, which is exactly what you're doing. Taking your small, limited experiences and trying to validate them by drawing wild conclusions based on carefully selected evidence. You base nothing on facts, only your emotions. And yet you talk about being a "man", pft...

It's 1984 all over again. And you seem to live in this life, where the streets don't exist, only the cantina at your university or your coffee shop, where you sit on you mac and sip your latte, telling people like me that "You're dumb"....keep on doing this, Matowy, it only backfires on yourself, and makes you look like the ignorant and pompeous..

Make more ad hominem attempts, it really helps you.

Attempted edit: Please say something original in your next post. I have said all I can, and I am by now tired of these discussions.
nott 3 | 594
26 Jun 2010 #110
VERY nice. Specify a hypothetical, then when a realistic and sensible solution to tha hypothetical is given, alter the parameters of the hypothetical so that the previously proposed solution no longer applies, and THEN declare how impractical and silly the previous solution was.

Exactly. Very intelligent answer, I admire. Now go face some football fans with basic self-defence skills.

Don't waste your time, Matowy. Your point of view is definitely more wordly and metropolitan than that of some Trelka from Norway. UK shows how it all works and no mistake. You know it. I know that you know, and Dariusz knows that too.

As for cases made against Poles in the UK, you seem somehow under-informed, though. Never mind, you're right anyway. Even if a tad to the left.

As for the actual question in the thread's topic, I just can't see it. There's some verbal racism, and lots of new stereotypes, but if you have to live in a multiracial society day by day, buy your food in the paki shop, work for some Jew, rub against a Filipino in the Tube, smell Indian food here and there, shag any available colour, listen to BBC news and watch football in English, then you just do not have enough race hate to spread on all of them.

I've been working and socialising with non-Poles a lot, and I kept my stereotypes about Poles mostly intact. Recently I met quite a bunch of Poles quite fresh from Poland, simple parochial folk, and had a free, un-PC-restictred chat or two with them. And now I don't really know what to think about Poles and their natural racism. The general timbre was: 'yeah, this is a higher culture. Just look at all those races and nations living all together, and no real problem at all...'

Which means, to me, that they are buying it. Bait, hook, float and line. Some Polish rednecks from behind the woods, sucking racism with their mother's milk.

Yeah, Matowy, this is just an anecdotal evidence, I bet you are smart enough to pick it up. I don't care, I say what I see. And sorry for this personal reference. I just don't like you.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Jun 2010 #111
People will grow fed up with overt racism and act accordingly. You don't come to a new country and start needlessly disrupting the dynamic.
Dudeski - | 25
26 Jun 2010 #112
Why are those minorities live on my expense? (government takes money from my taxes to give some of those African families that don't do nothing but breed)

OK, I'm a fuckin racist because I openly stated the truth that many of my English friends won't say out loud [but they sure do not hesitate to share it with me] because they are too hypocritical. Besides, you and Americans owe them something (slavery etc.) we and the rest of eastern Europeans don't.

I live enough time in London to recognize a sweat taste of mendacity (thank you Paul :-])

I love Britain but to live here you have to get used to false and hypocrisy.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
26 Jun 2010 #113
Attempted edit: Please say something original in your next post. I have said all I can, and I am by now tired of these discussions.

Dariusz

What "violent muslims"? Specific examples please. Which Islamic organizations in Europe are dedicated to creating "tough third world" muslims with the intention of... just being violent?

Read a little on this site;

thelambethwalk.blogspot.com

"Four bombers killed themselves and 52 others in attacks on the London public transit system on July 7, 2005 , followed by an almost identical but failed attack two weeks later. Last month Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair said that at least three "serious conspiracies" had been disrupted in the previous 12 months. Then this week, police said they thwarted a plot to blow up as many as 10 airliners flying from Britain to the United States that could have killed thousands".[/i]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/12/AR2006081201036.html

I could give you a thousand more links, but you have google too, don't you.

I'm not trying to convince you or lecture you at anything, Matowy, so relax. But there is evidence out there, that life is not how you seem to look at it. I don't know why you seem to ignore facts and real life experiences. You presume that I know little about Europe, although I've travelled through Europe by train (Inter-rail) at least 6 times, from Norway to Spain. I've been to the US, Asia and even Africa! So give me a break, and don't talk about things you don't know about. And I've also been to England at least 10 times, and seen cities like Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and the like. I see the difference, I see the cultures, I don't just sit here and insult people, like you do. Bring something to the table, or move to another thread!

If poles come to England and get a bit "culture-shocked", that's natural, when you know that they probably haven't even seen, less likely talked to a non-european in their whole life. And I don't think they are too impressed with what they encounter, even though it might be "exciting", and "new", the first few months. But after a while, I think if you talk to them, they will all agree that this is not a society they will want to import back home in Poland.

Your reply to my post was typical left-wing liberal blah-blah, you just talk until people fall asleep, without actually giving any information, experience or relevant facts. You just say, "That's how it is". Then I throw some facts back at you, and you dismiss it as "racist". That sadly is the reality and state of our politicians as well. You would be a perfect candidate for a social liberal post in your community, where you would shake hands with all the immigrants and tell them that "they built Britain", and how "valuable" their contributions to your society is. While at the same time schools, old peoples homes and roads are going down the drain. Not to mention the rising crime levels, drugs, rapes and other nice things that multiplied ten-folds since the 60's. (There are statistics to prove this too!).

As for the criminal poles in Britain, I say, get the f*ck out! Just deport them instantly, and hit them with heavy fines. They can rot in a polish jail! I have no feelings for people who go to another country, are welcomed, given rights and a possibility to start a better life, just to break the laws there. But the poles, given their numbers, don't even compare to the third world muslims when it comes to crimes. And they actually do valuable work, like construction, engineering and agricultural work. What do the muslims do, besides opening corner stores, receiving benefits on their 8 children and beating their wifes(plural). In Norway we have hundreds of thousands of poles. They work hard and are appreciated. We also have hundreds of thousands of muslims. Guess who's in the newspapers for violent crime, welfare scams, rapes, shootings, drugs and failing to "intergrate"?

Just a norwegian newspaper link here about Somali immigrants. Out of a 100 that went on a work-program....a whopping 6 of them got a job! This program cost the tax-payers over 1 million euros...now compare that to the poles that come and work in Norway and England..how many enter these work programs..if any at all...how many actually manage to find work? Close to a 100%? So, if they bring som "ancient" racism with them, when they see this, well, that's just reality for you.

"Job project gives meager result for somalis";

aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3695232.ece

Anyway, good luck!
Dariusz
jarnowa 4 | 499
26 Jun 2010 #114
whenever you encounter immigration going smoothly (which it usually does)

If you want people to take you seriously, don't write this kind of BS.
Immigration doesn't go smoothly anywhere in Europe.

Every f#cking place in Europe infested by Arabs, Turks and blacks has seen a sharp increase in crime.

Jewish people cannot walk safely on the streets of Belgian and Dutch cities due to Moroccan scum. Women feel unsafe due to the high % of non-Europeans harrassing and raping them.

If you call this 'smoothly', you are obviously too ignorant to take part in this discussion.

usually the immigrant label is irrelevant

Crime statistics for several countries show clearly that non-European immigrants commit a very high % of violent crimes.

Because native people have the right to know the truth about immigrant behaviour, it is always relevant to mention the ethnic background of the criminal.

If leftist press "forgets" this, they are deliberately protecting the immigrants just because they don't want the public opinion to shift to the right.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
26 Jun 2010 #115
non-European immigrants

Non-Europeans? How about Albanians?

I would rather speak of muslim immigrants.
jarnowa 4 | 499
26 Jun 2010 #116
You don't hear much of them in either Western Europe or Poland, so i usually forget them. ;)

And by the way, i don't think all of non-european criminals are muslim.
Matowy - | 295
26 Jun 2010 #118
Yawn, terrorism in London is quite common. Since you love links so much, try this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London

Since there's an overwhelming amount of attacks from the IRA, this is clear evidence that Irish and Catholic people are inherently evil and violent.

We can play this game forever, this is the last time I point out your faulty generalization logic.

I'm not trying to convince you or lecture you at anything, Matowy, so relax. But there is evidence out there, that life is not how you seem to look at it.

I don't dispute that you are well-travelled. I do think you're lying or exaggerating, but I have no proof of that. I know other highly experienced people who have travelled the world as much as you allegedly have, they love it because they get to experience new and different places and leaving their boring home life behind. You, apparently, are still living in some Arab ghetto in Bergen or Oslo and take it and your prejudices with you wherever you go, so you filter your alleged experiences through the tiny lens that your upbringing gave you. As I say, I doubt you have even travelled many places, and I 100% think you're lying.

I'll call your bluff as well; what did you see in Newcastle that enforced your views? I've grown up in Newcastle large parts of my life and have much family there, and I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

If poles come to England and get a bit "culture-shocked", that's natural, when you know that they probably haven't even seen, less likely talked to a non-european in their whole life. And I don't think they are too impressed with what they encounter, even though it might be "exciting", and "new", the first few months. But after a while, I think if you talk to them, they will all agree that this is not a society they will want to import back home in Poland.

Tell that to millions who are staying here.

Your reply to my post was typical left-wing liberal blah-blah, you just talk until people fall asleep, without actually giving any information, experience or relevant facts.

Oh, hello there again kettle. Irony is where you keep trying to label me as being constantly insulting, yet you yourself attempt to label me with all sorts of your own prejudices. If you are curious about my political or ideological views, then you have a keyboard with which to type. Use this "?" key and form a question. If you can't find that key, then feel free to keep trying to build your straw man with these silly "You're a leftist !!!" rants.

As for the criminal poles in Britain, I say, get the f*ck out!

They aren't deported because they have legal rights to be here, and have no more obligation to follow the law here than they did back home. In terms of criminal offences, they are treated just like everyone else, which is how it should be. This may be an alien concept to many Poles, but in the UK we try not to catagorize people based solely on one aspect of them. That means that each person is treated as an individual, regardless of their ethnicity or religion. If we were still stuck in the 1800's thinking that a person is only the sum total of their ethncity or culture, then this country wouldn't be so great as to allow millions of Poles to flood our shores. The Poles were an unnecessary addition to the UK, unlike in the 60's when we needed blacks and Asians to come and stimulate our workforce and economy. The Poles were unnecessary and unwanted, but were allowed in anyway out of sheer kindness. All other EU countries have placed limitations on Eastern European immigration.

What do the muslims do, besides opening corner stores, receiving benefits on their 8 children and beating their wifes(plural). In Norway we have hundreds of thousands of poles. They work hard and are appreciated. We also have hundreds of thousands of muslims. Guess who's in the newspapers for violent crime, welfare scams, rapes, shootings, drugs and failing to "intergrate"?

If they do all of that, then why do you label them as "Muslims" and not just as an immigrant group? It's strange to catagorize a criminal generation by a religion, that's like attributing racism of Poles to Catholicism. I already know the answer; like I said already, you're trying to justify your own experiences by applying it to the rest of Europe. Not all of Europe has the same type of immigrants as you do in Norway, so you try and link them all together using something as weak as religion. Not only that, but you yourself are an immigrant, and so your criticism of immigration as a whole would be hypocritical, and you know it. I can tell you again that your prejudices do not apply to the rest of Europe. "Muslims" here are not especially known for doing tons of crime. Quite frankly, it's just more evidence of your lack of objectivity and bigotry that you're trying to link crime with a religion. There's no evidence for that at all, unless you can find the passages in the Quran that definitely say "Thou shalt cause gang violence, thou shalt scam, though shalt rape, thou shalt do drugs and shoot people". I would try and find you statistics for "Muslim" crime in the UK, but I don't think anyone in my country is stupid enough to embark on such an irrelevant study. The best I could do was find the GDP input from Pakistani's in Britain (the largest contributor to the Muslim population), and it's completely in proportion. I do see an increasing number of Arabs in my town though, but I don't know where they work, if at all.

Just a norwegian newspaper link here about Somali immigrants.

I have no experience with Somalians, and I'm not going to form an opinion based on newspaper articles. Unfortunately it's a difficult position for the Norwegian government. I can see what you're trying to do though, and I'm going to point it out. Just this once you are going to refer to Somalians only, and then apply their lack of employment attributes to all Muslims, so that you can hate both the Somalians and the Arabs in the laziest way possible. Have some dignity.

EDIT: I did a bit of googling, and came up with these:

Not one reference to "Muslims" at all, not even to Arabs, Turks, or the constant Pakistan-India immigration. If anything, the general consensus is that inter-European immigration is more of an issue. So much for your fantasies.
jarnowa 4 | 499
26 Jun 2010 #119
If someone talks about muslim criminals, in 9 out of 10 times he doesn't mean it's a religiously inspired criminal, it is just a word to say that his roots are in the islamic world.

If some ethnic groups stand out in terms of crime and they have something similar, it's fair enough to mention it, in this case their cultural/religious background.

If Poles, Italians, Spanish and Irish people would commit much more crimes than non-catholic people, then it would be fair to talk about Catholic criminals. Unfortunately for you equality fanboy, there's no reason to set people from catholic background apart when we are talking about violent crime, rapes or robberies. Of course you can set them apart when it is relevant, e.g. if we would talk about sexual abuse of children.
Matowy - | 295
26 Jun 2010 #120
Catholics aren't more likely to sexually abuse children than any other religious group.

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