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Can a Polish mother bring her child to England without the fathers consent?

tigger 1 | 6
19 Jan 2014 #1
My Friend is married and wants to come to england for a holiday and then maby move here perminantly. she is splitting up from her husband and wants to bring her child with her. can she do this. please help as this is causing her big problems at home
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498
19 Jan 2014 #2
Yes, it happens all the time.

Disclaimer - I have no legal qualification whatsoever.
19 Jan 2014 #3
Legally, no. However, it does happen. Or at least it does if the kid has a passport or ID card.
OP tigger 1 | 6
20 Jan 2014 #4
Thank you for your answers. is it possible that she could be accused of kidnapping the child?
20 Jan 2014 #5
What are the current custody arrangements, if any?
Ant63 13 | 410
20 Jan 2014 #6
She would be a fool to do so. It's called Parental abduction and Poland isn't to friendly with Poles who abduct out of the country. Abducting in is a different matter.

Without doubt the English courts will return the child to Poland, not matter how strong her protestations or the child's (assuming the child is under 12).

It will be an incredibly expensive venture as this is high court stuff and she won't get legal aid.

Tell her not to be stupid and to make an agreement, that is witnessed by a legal professional or notary.

Don't do this and chances are it will end very very very badly for all concerned, especially the child.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
20 Jan 2014 #7
if the father has a relationship with the child and sees him/her regularly it would not be in the child' best interests to stop that and no court would look kindly on a mother who removed the child from their father.

if on the other hand the father does not bother and there is no relationship, and he would not be likely to mind....then hey go ahead.
OP tigger 1 | 6
21 Jan 2014 #8
Every offer has been made to the fa

Thank you all for your replies
As always these things are complicated, and I was hoping to find someone who had experience of these things

The father has refused to sign anything that will let her take the child out of Poland
He has been offered 4 free flights and free accommodation (1 week) per year so he can visit and spend time with his child

Also he has been offered (with the condition he returns the child) 2 times during the year when he can have the child in Poland initially a month each visit, until the child reaches school age then obviously things will change due to school holiday time

Also he can pay for himself as many times as he wants to come and visit for weekends of anything like that

My opinion is that it is not ideal but may be much better than a court would offer in this country (working on the principle of every other weekend and 2 weeks in the summer) I may be wrong there.

Even with all the offers he refuses to agree and refuses to agree to a separation or divorce, that is why it has come to this.

Again thanks for all the replies
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
21 Jan 2014 #9
Even with all the offers he refuses to agree and refuses to agree to a separation or divorce, that is why it has come to this.

well in the separation he has no choice really, sounds like a bit of a control freak - what does he think he can make her stay against her will?

times have moved on.
OP tigger 1 | 6
21 Jan 2014 #10
Ant63 i agree with you the child is the most important, but i am not sure the way things are at present is good for the child
21 Jan 2014 #11
In that case tigger, there's no option other than to go to court. Good luck, you'll need it.

Roz, times have moved on; however, Polish family courts have not.
OP tigger 1 | 6
21 Jan 2014 #13
Not exactly the other man, not yet anyway. i have a relationship with the mother but you may not believe it but we are very good friends and although we have grown together as such it remains friendship at the moment
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
21 Jan 2014 #14
well that is good she will need a friend and not one that her soon-to-be- x can throw **** at. I speak metaphorically of course .....:)

harry - do you mean the court could force her to stay in the marital home, or leave without her children?

if i were her i would consider a moonlight flit - unless the child had some amazing relationship with the dad.
21 Jan 2014 #15
Roz, I mean that the Polish court can and probably will force the kid to remain in Poland. A moonlight flit would be, as Ant explains above, a very bad idea.
OP tigger 1 | 6
21 Jan 2014 #16
The relationship he has with the child is not a bad one but I think falls far short of an average dad, he is generally a good guy, not a big drinker, not on drugs, but he probably spends more time on the xbox than playing with the child, and he refuses to look after the child while the mother goes out. So the relationship is more lets say an hour a day playing no bathing or stuff like that
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
21 Jan 2014 #17
oh right yes i should have read ant's post, sounds like he know what he is talking about .....
hmm it is tricky then, the only thing to do is work within the situation.
OK, what if your friend left the marital home and set up nearby ...would that be financially viable? then see how access visits and so on go for 6-12 months...

if the dad is as lazy as he sounds he will not bother with the visits (unless he ropes his mum or sister in ofc which is a very real possiblity) -

if he has not bothered with visits for however long, which ime is quite likely, because actually children are hard work, then she can re-assess her situation with a stronger hand.
OP tigger 1 | 6
21 Jan 2014 #18
The home thing is another problem; the house is the mothers, left to her by her dad when he passed. So he refuses to leave, also he has only recently got a job (last 6 months) so things are awkward to say the least.

Don't get me wrong I know there are 3 sides to every story, his hers and the truth, but things are degrading rapidly and I believe the child is suffering because of it
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
21 Jan 2014 #19
he refuses to leave?
well if it is her house, she can change the locks while he is out.
She would need some back up in this though - and would need to be prepared to call the police. what are the police like in these situations.

i would suggest she needs the paperwork for the house to hand.
has she got any brothers or cousins?
21 Jan 2014 #20
Change the locks and file in court for both child support and a custody order.

One thing though, are they married? If they are, did she acquire the house while they were married?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
21 Jan 2014 #21
oh are you thinking he might have a 'claim' on it Harry?
well if he has not been working to support the family, nor does he spend time with the child to enable the mother to work, i would say that claim would be quite weak.

ha my ex tried to get our flat into his name, after more or less coercing me out of it, the council told him where to get off....:)

and that was after he had paid a **** load of cash to a lawyer who had told him what a great case he had....lololololzzzz
21 Jan 2014 #22
I'm thinking that if she acquired ownership during their marriage, she might want to get some advice from a lawyer (probably at a free law clinic).

Sadly none of the factors you mention would have any impact.

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