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How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here?


pawian 151 | 7,974    
24 Jan 2013  #1
Two facts:
1. Cameron publicly promised to hold a referendum on Britain`s presence in the EU.

2. Currently, it is estimated about 600.000 Poles are staying and working in UK, sending their families back in Poland substantial financial support.

s
sobieski 107 | 2,129    
24 Jan 2013  #2
General De Gaulle was right after all, the Brits should never have been allowed into Europe.
OP pawian 151 | 7,974    
24 Jan 2013  #3
It formally took place in 1973.

The United Kingdom, which had refused to join as a founding member, changed its policy following the Suez crisis and applied to be a member of the Communities. The UK and US were concerned about France attempting to usurp US leadership in Europe and the US encouraged the UK to join in order to counterbalance French influence. Other EEC members were also inclined to British membership on those grounds. French President Charles de Gaulle feared Britain's US influence and vetoed British membership.[7]

Once de Gaulle had left office, the door to enlargement was once again opened. The EEC economy had also slowed down and British membership was seen as a way to revitalise the community.[7] Only after a 12-hour talk between British Prime Minister Edward Heath and French President Georges Pompidou took place did Britain's third application succeed.[18] After Britain was accepted Prime Minister Edward Heath said:

"For my part, I have no doubt at all that the discussions which we have had will prove of real and lasting benefit, not only to Britain and France, but to Europe as a whole."[18]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union

Why do you think so? Is British presence in the EU a major problem for other members now?
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
24 Jan 2013  #4
Is British presence in the EU a major problem for other members now?

The EU is far too important for Britain as an export market. I therefore don't believe that Cameron will be stupid enough to allow a referendum. He would kill off large parts of the British economy and the Poles would probably have to go home.

telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9816643/Britain-becomes-Germanys-biggest-trade-partner-as-Berlin-London-pact-deepens.html
Wroclaw Boy    
24 Jan 2013  #5
I therefore don't believe that Cameron will be stupid enough to allow a referendum.

Its complete bollox aimed at nothing more than securing the next election, its like asking somebody if they fancy a roast dinner next fcuking year.
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
24 Jan 2013  #6
I agree, much of it is political maneuvering.
legend 3 | 669    
24 Jan 2013  #7
Hopefully Britain leaves the EU and all countries follow.
If Britain leaves many Poles will return home which is also good (hopefully they will return without being brainwashed too much in UK).
OP pawian 151 | 7,974    
24 Jan 2013  #8
and the Poles would probably have to go home.

But that`s the point! One of the reasons for the referendum is the problem of immigrants who deprive native Brits of their jobs, as many in Britain believe!!!

E.g.,

If Britain leaves many Poles will return home which is also good.

Due to political correctness it wasn`t mentioned in the CNN article I gave a link to above , but eveybody knows it.

Here is a better one:
blog.visabureau.com/post/eu-referendum-and-uk-immigration.aspx
Despite promising the referendum, Mr Cameron said he would first attempt to renegotiate a unilateral agreement with the EU to change the UK's relationship with the single market and secure more autonomy over such policies as immigration.
poland_    
24 Jan 2013  #9
Its complete bollox aimed at nothing more than securing the next election, its like asking somebody if they fancy a roast dinner next fcuking year.

I agree 100% the Con/Lib dems expected SSM ( same sex marriage) was enough to win them the next election, with much of the Tory party now revolting against SSM it has now been put on the back burner, so the next vote churner is a referendum on Europe.
zetigrek    
24 Jan 2013  #10
If Britain leaves many Poles will return home which is also good (hopefully they will return without being brainwashed too much in UK).

And the unemployment will rise to a staggering level of 30% maybe? Thank you very much legend!
OP pawian 151 | 7,974    
24 Jan 2013  #11
600.00 Poles wouldn`t rise the unemployment to 30%. Only 20%

But it won`t be so bad:
From the link above:

What would the UK's leaving the EU mean for UK immigration?
Should the Conservatives win the next General Election and hold the referendum, the effect on UK immigration is likely to be incredibly affecting - particularly for those wanting to move to the UK from within the EU - but also for those already here.

Changes to the status of EU citizens who have used the Freedom of Movement directive to live and work in the UK would almost certainly lead to a surge in UK visa applications for those wanting to remain. With so many EU citizens already in the UK, this could result in an over burdening of the Home Office and potentially even lead to panic among those faced with being forced to leave the UK.

However, Marissa Murdock, casework manager at the UK Visa Bureau, says the timescales mentioned and the magnitude of the change would mean that any real effect would take several years to be felt.

[i]"The decision to leave the EU would necessitate a large number of transitional measures being put in place to UK immigration policy and such large changes rarely take fewer than a matter of years," said Ms Murdock.

"A raft of new rules combined with the political uncertainty of such a change would mean most current UK residents would have sufficient time to apply for residency or Indefinite Leave to Remain [ILR] before any changes could take effect.
[/i]
zetigrek    
24 Jan 2013  #12
More interesting question is what would happen if all Poles and other "Eastern Europeans" left the UK?
Would it be all advantages for British society?
poland_    
24 Jan 2013  #13
What would the UK's leaving the EU mean for UK immigration?

There is a very small chance the UK would leave the EU. Britain is not in favor of the way the EU is moving towards a centralized government,Cameron is making a statement change from within the EU and become more competitive, also Britain wants a revamp of EU finances which is a positive thing. Unfortunately this short term thinking by Cameron will have FDI putting off investment until after the referendum in 2015 at a time when the UK needs all the investment it can rally up.
Ant63 11 | 403    
24 Jan 2013  #14
Would it be all advantages for British society?

Youth unemployment would fall
zetigrek    
24 Jan 2013  #15
Or maybe they wouldn't like to work for the wages Poles work for.
MoOli 9 | 484    
25 Jan 2013  #16
Poles would probably have to go home.

Oh no,keep poland clean of them roach street mafiosis who work in Uk now.Let Poland be liberated of them criminals who have exited.
Bieganski 17 | 906    
25 Jan 2013  #17
There is a very small chance the UK would leave the EU.

I don't think many Brits care either way since millions have already left to start a new life and career abroad:

telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819096/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html

Emigration: Two million quit Britain in 'talent drain'

Office for National Statistics figures...show that in the ten years to 2011, a total of 3,599,000 people permanently left the UK.

Contrary to the perception of the typical emigrants being older people retiring to a life in the sun, the figures show that 1,963,000 of those who left were aged between 25 and 44.

I understand the position of the Conservative Party is to keep membership in the EU limited to it being a common marketplace rather than become a united country. With that in mind the British government will most likely want to continue to make immigration as easy as possible for non-UK residents of working age especially since those born in Britain are leaving in droves.

Obviously those Britons who are too poor or too talentless are the ones stranded behind in the UK and are the ones who most likely are doing all the moaning about motivated Poles who have arrived to take advantage of the opportunities opened up by the millions who left.
4 eigner 2 | 831    
25 Jan 2013  #18
to allow

to allow? It's not my business but what about people? I believe, people should be able to vote for whatever they want. The government only represents them, that's all (at least in theory which is sad enough)
Rysavy 10 | 308    
25 Jan 2013  #19
Question:
So should they do so ..would they have to take the shoe from the other foot?

Would they expect this referendum on immigration to stay one way?..why should other countries honor the treatise that allowed their nationals abroad any special VISA or immgration perks. What if other countries revoked these things such as foreign ownership of vacation or retirement properties (Mexico and S.A. do this all the time with major government changes. Never buy property in Costa Rica you want to keep) and refilled Britain with all of those who recently left?

Would that help Britain? in long run?

And also: Would the Polish government give any "EU" priviledges to British Expats on their soil that were not naturalized yet? Or kick all but the most lucrative businesses out? ^_^

Just asking.... to get an idea how Polish government might sway on this type issue
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
25 Jan 2013  #20
people should be able to vote for whatever they want

You just told me a few days ago that you wouldn't accept the decision of a majority in a popular vote to revoke the second amendment... :)

don't believe that Cameron will be stupid enough to allow a referendum

To allow = do everything in his power to avoid a referendum on EU membership. If unable to do so, pretend to have amnesia.
4 eigner 2 | 831    
25 Jan 2013  #21
You just told me a few days ago that you don't care what the majority says about revoking the second amendment... :)

it wasn't me TO
MoOli 9 | 484    
25 Jan 2013  #22
Just asking.... to get an idea how Polish government might sway on this type issue

Since noone answered you...Polish govt would welcome there stay till they probably can get any kind of investment visa or such...and poles will welcome that.:)
4 eigner 2 | 831    
25 Jan 2013  #23
do everything in his power to avoid a referendum on EU membership. If unable to do so, pretend to have amnesia.

if they don't want it, they shouldn't be forced to it. That's why I despise all politicians, because they don't respect us. They should be working for us and not the other way around, All we're good for is to vote for these bastards, that's all.
Rysavy 10 | 308    
25 Jan 2013  #24
Since noone answered you...Polish govt would welcome there stay till they probably can get any kind of investment visa or such...and poles will welcome that.:)

Thanks :)

Its the little insights, not big issue arguements, that let me know what it may be like to live in day to day Poland
sobieski 107 | 2,129    
25 Jan 2013  #25
Why do you think so? Is British presence in the EU a major problem for other members now?

The Brits believe somehow they have a "special relationship" with the yanks. So do the Poles. They both forget they are a European country.

Sorry, the British are not European... they are...insular
The Poles behave as the yanks' Trojan Donkey.
OP pawian 151 | 7,974    
25 Jan 2013  #26
So do the Poles.

The Poles behave as the yanks' Trojan Donkey.

I think it has been gradually changing over recent years. The initial enthusiasm for America of 1990s have substantially dropped down nowadays.
academica72 2 | 4    
25 Jan 2013  #27
If the UK leaves the EU? Is going to be very hard for the Brits and also the EU itself. About emigration, my opinion is: UK is not my country and will never be, so I am here just to work and get a better life and make some money, but is not forever. I will go back to my country (Portugal) without a doubt.
Radders 3 | 47    
25 Jan 2013  #28
Sorry, the British are not European... they are...insular

Insular? Yes, but European also. In pre-easyJet days there was once a newspaper headline - "Heavy fog in the Channel; Europe cut-off" which illustrates our Anglocentric viewpoint.

But everything we are, our art and architecture, our sacred and profane beliefs, our science and culture, industry and scholarship are all rooted in a common European identity. A learned person can stand in Krakow, Norwich, Florence, Heidelberg or Antwerp and see the same early and undeveloped application of Vitruvius to buildings that heralded the same Renaissance, and likewise the first and second Enlightenments reached across the Channel westwards just as they reached eastwards into Poland. Similarly, you could step into any English church and hear the people proclaim the same Nicene Credo as heard in every Catholic church from Porto to Poznan. Our arts and culture, music and painting fed from each other in an interchange of ideas and innovations. From the earliest days our trade with the Hanseatic ports and the Baltic brought our wool to clothe the szlachta and returned with iron, resin and furs. So we're absolutely European in this sense.

But it's true we're most reluctant to give up our sovereignty to the EU. Perhaps it's because no-one has invaded us in a thousand years, that we have never in living memory been occupied. So we want all the advantages of a free market, of free movement for goods and workers, and we're even happy to pay into EU funds to build infrastructure like roads and bridges and ports that assist trade and movement in the newly-joined nations. But we look at Van Rumpoy and Barroso and shake our heads - the idea of such people governing us is an anathema.
archiwum 13 | 125    
25 Jan 2013  #29
Why would some europeans not like others. I guess it's how you come off. I guess.

Britain is a soveign country. So they would have their own immigration laws.

In the United States, the poles get a 90 day visa waiver. Executive Order.

This order lasts until there's a new executive.
OP pawian 151 | 7,974    
26 Jan 2013  #30
One of the reasons for the referendum is the problem of immigrants who deprive native Brits of their jobs, as many in Britain believe!!!

E.g., here is another perfect example from one of our posters:
If one of you comes here and takes my job, by rights I should slay you but that would mean a life time of imprisonment for me. All i can do is let you know how angry the people of Great Britain are hence the reason we all want out of the EU. It will come.

Btw, oxon, are you going to vote Cameron or will you prefer to trust these neo fascists, I forgot their name, something with B ?


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