The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered [12]  |  Archives [1] 
 
Witamy, Guest
Home / UK, Ireland   78 posts

Former minister admits UK messed up on immigration


InWroclaw 90 | 1,921    
13 Nov 2013  #1

Former home secretary Jack Straw has admitted Labour's decision to drop immigration restrictions on eastern European migrants was a "spectacular mistake". ...handing immediate working rights to Poles and other nationalities who joined the EU in 2004 was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up".

..."One spectacular mistake in which I participated (not alone) was in lifting the transitional restrictions on the eastern European states like Poland and Hungary which joined the EU in mid-2004.

news.sky.com/story/straw-admits-spectacular-immigration-mistake-10428153

Apparently there are over 2 million Poles living abroad, and I think the latest figures suggest 900,000 in the UK and 200,000 in Ireland.

Yet, come to cities like Wrocław and it already seems crowded, especially with the hundreds of new blocks of flats (or it seems like hundreds) everywhere.

Will Poles return in great numbers anytime soon? Somehow I doubt it, as the ones I speak to say they're happy in Britain and their kids are settled into schools there.

delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
13 Nov 2013  #2

Will Poles return in great numbers anytime soon?

Probably not, because one figure suggests that up to 300,000 Brits are leaving every year, so there's a place for them.
Tamarisk    
13 Nov 2013  #3

And this was in the Telegraph article...

On Monday Mr Blunkett said anti-social behaviour by Roma people in his Sheffield constituency has resulted in "understandable tensions" among the indigenous community, and the conflict must be addressed to avert disorder.

Britain is now home to 200,000 Roma migrants, one of the largest populations in Western Europe.

Mr Blunkett said: "We have got to change the behaviour and the culture of the incoming Roma community – because there's going to be an explosion otherwise.

"We have got to be tough and robust in saying to people, "you are not living in a downtrodden village or woodland" – because many of them don't live in areas where there are toilets or refuse collection facilities."
OP InWroclaw 90 | 1,921    
14 Nov 2013  #4

because many of them don't live in areas where there are toilets or refuse collection facilities."

There are barely refuse collection facilities in Britain these days, the Roma may be shocked to find things are worse than wherever they came from. independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/battle-of-the-bins-defra-stats-show-fortnightly-refuse-collections-increases-recycling-8434239.html

As for public toilets, I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people have to "go" anywhere they can, but that's being somewhat addressed now by the installation of portable loos in strategic spots in Wrocław (little blue cubicles, very basic but better than nothing if you need to urinate). But go to London on a Friday night and you'll pass drinkers urinating in the streets, and not just the men. Frankly, I'm taken aback that Romas aren't disgusted with the lack of public loos in the UK!

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2097420/Its-inconvenience-The-lack-public-loos-bad-health.html

Probably not, because one figure suggests that up to 300,000 Brits are leaving every year, so there's a place for them.

Some expat Brits, apparently mostly from Spain, are trying to return and buy back in to the UK, and finding it very hard after the rampant HPI seen in many areas. But yes, many are clearing off, they've had enough.
BBman - | 345    
14 Nov 2013  #5

Mr Blunkett said: "We have got to change the behaviour and the culture of the incoming Roma community – because there's going to be an explosion otherwise.

Why change it? Their ways of life add to the cultural enrichment of the UK. Here, have a look at how the Roma live in eastern europe:

z

s

f

e

w

n

j

The UK needs this, Mr. Blunkert!
Monitor 14 | 1,824    
14 Nov 2013  #6

as you haven't explained why that state of affairs came about.

can you tell us why?
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
14 Nov 2013  #7

Surely BBMan is more qualified to talk on the subject than I, given that he posted the pictures.
Harry 81 | 13,362    
14 Nov 2013  #8

Pity that he's never spoken to even a single Romani person (other than the "F*ck off, gypo" etc that one sadly expects from his ilk).
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
14 Nov 2013  #9

I very much doubt he's ever been near Slovakia as well.

Lunik IX is a sad story, but well, isn't it easier to racially abuse them online than to help?
Ant63 11 | 405    
14 Nov 2013  #10

we aren't racist scum

In this politically correct age its almost impossible to comment without appearing racist.

The UK has some interesting times ahead, that's for sure. If, as predicted by Mr Farage, huge numbers will arrive here again, I fully expect a reaction of some sort which will present a problem for all immigrants. Lets face it, Nigel is rarely wrong with his predictions. Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy for example. The UK has been simmering for some time; turning the heat up now will most likely be disastrous.

You never know it may even bring the referendum forward.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
14 Nov 2013  #11

what referendum?
the UK never uses referenda, well hardly ever, as I recall from my studies of history, the last one one was on the question of the Ionian islands over a hundred years ago.

I am not a racist but do not think these people should be allowed free entry to the UK.
Doubtless they will jump the housing list ahead of British people due to their 'needs' - they will add more strain to the health and education systems, then Brits will be told they are too lazy to work and that they are 'racist' for questioning anything.

At least Britain and Poland had some kind of historical connection, with this lot there is no connection at all.
Harry 81 | 13,362    
14 Nov 2013  #12

then Brits will be told they are too lazy to work and that they are 'racist' for questioning anything.

Sounds half right then.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
14 Nov 2013  #13

what Harry?
am I 'racist' or 'lazy'?
Do tell.
Harry 81 | 13,362    
14 Nov 2013  #14

Neither (I imagine). However, more than a few Brits who live off benefits (which you do not) are very simply too lazy to get a job (in part because it's not financially attractive to work in minimum wage jobs and lose the majority of one's benefits).
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
14 Nov 2013  #15

not 'in part' - wholly - successive governments have made damn sure that work doesn't pay, gives them a stick to beat us with, also makes the population more controllable if they are reliant on Government handouts (feeling v cynical today)

Actually I am sick of it - British people are not 'lazy'
Harry 81 | 13,362    
14 Nov 2013  #16

not 'in part' - wholly - successive governments have made damn sure that work doesn't pay

Actually work does pay, the problem is that quite a few people don't value the currency that makes up part of the payment.

Actually I am sick of it - British people are not 'lazy'

I didn't say that they are. What I said is that a lot of a certain group of British people are lazy (and fairly understandably lazy at that).
Ant63 11 | 405    
14 Nov 2013  #17

What I said is that a lot of a certain group of British people are lazy (and fairly understandably lazy at that).

I think your wrong. Its not understandable when 400,000 have lost their benefits for not even making the effort to look for jobs. Its a simple process but some can't be bothered to make the effort.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,597    
14 Nov 2013  #18

Actually work does pay, the problem is that quite a few people don't value the currency that makes up part of the payment

do you mean self respect or something? All very laudable but it don't put dinner on the table.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7148515.stm
TheOther 5 | 3,483    
14 Nov 2013  #19

Here's the related article from The Guardian:

theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/jack-straw-labour-mistake-poles
Ironside 46 | 8,812    
14 Nov 2013  #20

BS , that influx have been beneficial for many people, mostly Brits the only issue is that working class and those unskilled have been put against the wall, hard to compete with foreigners but monody cares about them, not really, but politicians will never admit the truth. Now he can backpedaling all he wants, but that is just a big lie.
Ant63 11 | 405    
14 Nov 2013  #21

BS , that influx have been beneficial for many people

I really really want to know what the benefits are that people allude to. The big lie is that it benefited anybody but the unscrupulous.

working class and those unskilled have been put against the wall

Some just didn't want to join the race to the bottom.
szczecinianin 4 | 346    
14 Nov 2013  #22

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7148515.stm

What a ridiculous person. To have five children and expect others to pay for their keep. The British model of a welfare state was a huge mistake. It simply rewards the idle and irresponsible.

The big lie is that it benefited anybody but the unscrupulous.

It has benefited employers and Poles. It has reduced the income of Working Class Brits.
legend 3 | 671    
15 Nov 2013  #23

They can only complain about Eastern Europeans cause they are white and its still PC to do so.
But they wouldnt say anything about South Asians or Africans.
szczecinianin 4 | 346    
15 Nov 2013  #24

But you, no doubt, are man enough to do so.
Harry 81 | 13,362    
15 Nov 2013  #25

It simply rewards the idle and irresponsible

I count five people there who have done active military service in defense of their country; what have you ever done for the good of your country?
antheads 11 | 279    
15 Nov 2013  #26

[standpointmag.co.uk/node/5252/full] - great article in the standpoint about immigration in england.

I am usually pro multiculturalism but a few things in the article stood out. The first is a lithuanian business owner says

"I don't live in Britain. I live in Lithuania. I watch Lithuanian TV. I use the internet in Lithuanian. My friends are all Lithuanians. This shop is Lithuanian. I only meet Lithuanians. The only thing I do in Britain is pay taxes to the British."

That is worrying and explained later in the article by the differences between the american and brittish dream. There is no real pride in becoming british or forging a new future like in america.

Poles and Albanians talk about Britain as a "mini-America". But there is no British dream. East Europeans came to London not inspired by a dream of how great things could be, but by the knowledge of how much worse they can be. Talk of Britishness draws a blank face.

Of course judging by the behaviour of expat and tourist brits in poland who would want to become a brit:?
szczecinianin 4 | 346    
15 Nov 2013  #27

great article in the standpoint about immigration in england. I am usually pro multiculturalism but a few things in the article stood out.

Great article. Thanks.
Ironside 46 | 8,812    
15 Nov 2013  #28

really really want to know what the benefits are that people allude to. The big lie is that it benefited anybody but the unscrupulous.

It benefited, all those owners who couldn't find enough workers for their factories and farms. It benefited government because tax from migrant workers went to government coffers keeping recession at bay for another two years.

The big lie is that all institutions like Heath services and the police has been using migrants as an excuse or a pretext to get more founds from the government. Another one that government made a mistake.

Some just didn't want to join the race to the bottom.

I don't think it is about choices but rather about necessity.
Saying that I think that the EU policy in regard to migrant workers (not only)is made in the interests of banks and corporate businesses.
pierogi2000 4 | 230    
15 Nov 2013  #29

Of course judging by the behaviour of expat and tourist brits in poland who would want to become a brit:?

Few thoughts
- Poles, along with the rest of Europe stop immigrating to the USA a couple decades ago
- But those that do, usually leave their entire lives and culture behind. That is not the case in England which is only a couple countries away.

- Mexican-American, African-American or Polish-American are all worse than natives (Mexicans in Mexico, Poles in Poland etc) For example so many Poles living in the USA turn into materialistic loving wiggers. Unless I met them at the University, work or church. Then they are simple minded idiots like the rest of the American population.

If that is some kind of "dream". Whatever.
Meathead 5 | 473    
17 Nov 2013  #30

Actually I am sick of it - British people are not 'lazy'

The British working class are not lazy. What they are,,,is uncooperative due to the Class system. It's all they have left, it's a sign of independence. The upper classes didn't bring in the immigrants just because they wanted lower wages, they did it to stick the Working class. It's that constant tit for tat that goes on between the classes.

When I'm in England or watching an english show of some sort it always amazes me the quality of people living in the Council Estates. If they were in the States they'd be managing a department store or something. In England they're just a wasted Human resource. So you have a problem with the "Lazy English"? Bring 'em to the States, at least they have a sense of humor, unlike the Mexicans.




Home / UK, Ireland / Former minister admits UK messed up on immigration
Click this icon to move up back to the quoted message. Bold Italic [quote]

 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary and unique username or login and post as a member.