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English dad, Polish mum are parting. What about the child?


mum50 1 | 4
9 Jan 2012 #1
hi my son is living with a polish girl,they have a young child who has a british passport.sadly they are parting and she wants to go back and live in poland with their child,my son is against this and says she legally cant take their child,does anyone know about this its bad enough their parting dont want to lose my granchild aswell.thankyou.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Jan 2012 #2
I suggest you check with a good immigration lawyer. My imrpession is that in such cases the child cannot be takne out of the country without the consent of both parents.
Guest
9 Jan 2012 #3
It must be sad,but did you think about this,that if the split up she might want to go back to her own country,where she can have some help from her family etc,that doesnt mean you or your son will not have contact with the child,does it??and by the way go and get a live....beacuse you sound like one of them groundparets what are pain in the ... and have no live of there own.The girl got the right to go where she belongs,and wherever mother goes child should go too,thats my opinion,and if you make it difficult for her ,she might make it difficult for you too.
Harry
9 Jan 2012 #4
First question is "where is the passport?" You son is right that she cannot legally remove the child from the UK without his consent. However, the reality is that if she does get the child back to Poland, your son will have a hell of a job getting the child back (Polish courts are famed for this).
OP mum50 1 | 4
9 Jan 2012 #5
thankyou i will try this.
Harry
9 Jan 2012 #6
Also, have a read of this guide reunite.org/edit/files/Prevention%20Guide%20E&W.pdf

I can't stress this enough: if the mother does get the child to Poland, it could well be years before you son is able to get any access at all and it is almost certain that he will be granted only very limited custody.
OP mum50 1 | 4
9 Jan 2012 #7
dear guest reply,no i didnt think she would want to go back,she was in this country along time before she met my son.she has a good job here and a home.i can asure you i do have a life of my own plus i am a great source of support to them reguarding child care ect.i know i can visit my grandchild in poland and would do so gladly.but thankyou for your unhelpfull reply.
Harry
9 Jan 2012 #8
dear guest

Really, don't bother wasting your time even replying to idiots like that. There are some posters here who will automatically side against you just because the mother is Polish.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
9 Jan 2012 #9
thankyou i will try this.

Try to speak to the girl. Poland is only 2 hours away, there are cheap flights and Poland is an easy and friendly place to visit. Especially if you have a grandchild there. The future might turn out far better than you think!
OP mum50 1 | 4
9 Jan 2012 #10
thankyou, i have visited poland it is beautiful and my sons partner(or ex ) is lovely,and she does realise the importance of family.so maybe you could be right
Wedle 16 | 496
10 Jan 2012 #11
Try to speak to the girl. Poland is only 2 hours away, there are cheap flights and Poland is an easy and friendly place to visit. Especially if you have a grandchild there. The future might turn out far better than you think!

thankyou, i have visited poland it is beautiful and my sons partner(or ex ) is lovely,and she does realise the importance of family.so maybe you could be right

Mum50, jonnyM has avery good point here, it is always a very stressful time during any breakup, the most important person is your grandchild and his/her happiness and development. You are a mother, therefore you can think this through from a mothers perspective. If the decision is for the mother and child to return to Poland, then you will have the issue of language development, I assume your son and yourself would like to communicate with your grand child in the future. There are many bi-lingual kindergartens, so maybe this cost could be your sons contribution, your grandchild will very quickly loose his/her english unless he/she is immersed in it.

If your sons ( ex partner) is not from a financially secure family, it will only be a matter of time before, she considers her life in England to be better, at least if she is allowed to go, she may realize it is better to return to the UK in the interests of the child. Remember she has already left Poland once for a better life.
pip 10 | 1,661
10 Jan 2012 #12
get all paperwork and documents sorted asap. she may do a runner then you are screwed. Find out what the laws are- for example in Canada I cannot legally travel with my children without written permission from my husband.--even though we are still married.
Harry
10 Jan 2012 #13
Find out what the laws are- for example in Canada I cannot legally travel with my children without written permission from my husband.--even though we are still married.

In theory kids can not be taken outside of the UK without the permission of people who have parental responsibility.
In theory Poland is required to return to the UK any children who have been illegally removed from the UK.
In practice the Polish embassy is happy to issue a Polish passport to one parent (which means that even if a British court has ordered the British passport to be surrendered, a child can still be taken out of Poland) and Polish courts are happy to ignore the obligations of Poland (see, for example, the decision of the Szczecin court with regard to the 'Nikola' case).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,675
10 Jan 2012 #14
In theory kids can not be taken outside of the UK without the permission of people who have parental responsibility

key words here are 'in theory'...I have often taken my kids out of the UK and no-one batted an eyelid, despite my ex husband ostensibly having parental responsibilty.
Ironside 49 | 10,017
10 Jan 2012 #15
Really, don't bother wasting your time even replying to idiots like that. There are some posters here who will automatically side against you just because the mother is Polish.

As you automatically clamp down on somebody just because he/she is Polish.

dont want to lose my granchild aswell.thankyou.

just maintain good relations with his/her mother
Harry
10 Jan 2012 #16
As you automatically clamp down on somebody just because he/she is Polish.

No, here I am automatically recommending extreme caution because the Polish courts have such a bad record when it comes both to non-Poles and their children and to the decisions of foreign courts with regard to half-Polish children.
EM_Wave 9 | 311
10 Jan 2012 #17
The girl got the right to go where she belongs,and wherever mother goes child should go too,thats my opinion,and if you make it difficult for her ,she might make it difficult for you too.

Um...it's her grandchild...

As if your spelling/grammar is not enough to show how ignorant you are...
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
10 Jan 2012 #18
It must be sad,but did you think about this,that if the split up she might want to go back to her own country,where she can have some help from her family

Then she should at least talk to the grandmother here, assure her that she would come back for visits
so that its not so hard for her, when you get married, you have two families.. not ONE!! if she is splitting
with her son, then at least keeping peace and making it good for the child and telling the child that because
we didnt get along , its still ok for you to see your other grandma.. so back off and stop being so cruel!!

its not fair to her either and she is the innocent grandmother who loves this child same as all grandmothers do!!

and by the way go and get a live....beacuse you sound like one of them groundparets what are pain in the ... and have no live of there own.The girl got the right to go where she belongs,and wherever mother goes child should go too

you get a life, you should give good advice , not bullShyt, you know this grandmother is in pain, that doesnt mean
she is a nosey person , every mother cares about their child, she has a right to feel this way !! if she is close
to this child, then you should understand how much she is hurting, hopefully things will be resolved without
arguments and everyone will agree on the same terms whatever the outcome.

you should be ashamed to say such things to someone. you should apologize , at least show some feelings!

Try to speak to the girl. Poland is only 2 hours away, there are cheap flights and Poland is an easy and friendly place to visit. Especially if you have a grandchild there. The future might turn out far better than you think!

good advice jonny, I agree.

she does realise the importance of family.so maybe you could be right

so do you, so talk to her like jonny says, let her know where you stand, talk to your son, dont pick
sides, remember we all make mistakes as parents, we do our best to raise them, so just let her know you
will be there for her as well. it will probably mean alot, and keeping it all civil and calm is the best. because
then no one will be upset, and I am sure she would not have a problem letting you see your grandchild.

lets face it, we all know as mothers, its extremely hard to lose a child, could you really really ask her
to let go of her child , could you have let go of your son when he was young if you had to go thru a divorce?

its simply not about nationality, its about being a parent, and one has to know that no matter what, its going
to be painful for either party, especially if they live so far, so keeping a calm atmosphere, focusing on the childs
needs , because one morning they will wake up and they will be in a whole new environment, it will be hard
because all of the things they became used to have been ripped out from under them.

new school, new friends, culture is different. change isnt always good, support of both is what is needed, if
things get to rough for the child, then maybe just let her know, she is welcome back to stay with you if
your grandchild is not happy there. so maybe they could get back on their feet if they did need to come back
because it wasnt working out.

I hope everything works out for all of you.
OP mum50 1 | 4
10 Jan 2012 #19
thankyou all so much for your very kind helpfull messages,i have never been on this forum before but all but 1 message has been so warm and freindly i cant tell you how much it has helped me.wedle,what you said about the lanuage thing is such a massive concern,i would travel anywhere to keep seeing my granchild,i have seen him nearly everyday of his life(he is 2 now)and i would never interfere, if she needs to go home then so be it but not being able to communicate with him is such a worry.i know his mum and my son will always do what is best for their son this is breaking their hearts but some couples just can't stay together.i will ask about the english speaking kindergarten,thanks for that.plus i think i will try to learn polish.my son knows a little thanks again everyone.
Harry
10 Jan 2012 #20
Glad we could help a bit.

One thing you might want to suggest to the mother (assuming you get on well enough and she does take the kid back to Poland): English is always spoken at home and Polish spoken outside it, by everyone. I know Polish/foreign couples who do that and it tends to produce very bi-lingual kids.
Barney 14 | 1,469
10 Jan 2012 #21
In theory kids can not be taken outside of the UK without the permission of people who have parental responsibility.

This is true however the parent with care can travel outside the UK with the kids (without the other parent’s permission) provided the trip is for less than 30 days. The parent with care is decided at court unless the parents agree who is the primary carer
modafinil - | 418
11 Jan 2012 #22
In theory kids can not be taken outside of the UK without the permission of people who have parental responsibility.

If they weren't married as it appears and they weren't living together as though husband and wife, the mother can go where she pleases. Mum50, you'll have to be very nice to her as grandmother's have no rights to access except in divorce case custody hearings.
Harry
11 Jan 2012 #23
If they weren't married as it appears and they weren't living together as though husband and wife, the mother can go where she pleases.

If they live in England and jointly registered the birth, the father has parental responsibility. If they didn't, a court case soon gives him parental responsibility.
modafinil - | 418
11 Jan 2012 #24
It's common for unmarried woman with children to apply successfully to return to their country of origin through court application. The onus is on the father to prove negligence or potential negligence or a situation that will be to the child's detriment, or have the child made a ward of court. If he hasn't been living with her, he has little chance of keeping the child here if she wants to leave.
Barbiekk
19 Nov 2013 #25
Hi. Pliz enlighten me about that..I'm trying to find enough info about child custody laws in poland but not getting a clear website. We're planning to divorce but I'm worried about my dear daughter's custody..his dad is from poland and I'm Ugandan. We all live in poland.
legate - | 46
19 Nov 2013 #26
Hi Barbiekk,
Of course you have the custody rights but it can be limited during the divorce proceedings, so as the contact rights. There are no clear rules about who gets the custody, the court has to put the children's interest in the first place and has to examine which parent gives a better guarantee.

The most common ruling is that one parent gets full custody and the second one's custody rights are limited. Second parent should assert his contact rights so it's not hindered by the first parent who lives with the children.

Have you thought about getting an attorney?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,675
25 Nov 2013 #27
Of course you have the custody rights

contact rights

sorry to tell you but there is no such thing as 'custody' apart from for criminals and parents have no 'rights' at all - it is the children who have rights.


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