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Polish city that's moved to Britain


Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2013  #1
thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4728585/Polish-city-thats-moved-to-Britain.html

Nine years after it joined the European Union, Poland is facing a national crisis compounded by its people's determination to find a better life beyond its borders.

And their decision to up sticks and move to the UK is causing havoc in the places where they were raised.

zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #2
I knew it! I knew it from the very title of yours that's about £ódź!!! ;DDD

Edit.
Wait a minute: "poor and elderly in line to buy a bread"?! I haven't witnessed that. What they are talking about?

And £ódź wasn't even scraped during World War II !
OP Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2013  #3
title of yours

Its not my title, its this chap: g.culliford@the-sun.co.uk
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #4
Its not my title, its this chap

Ok.
If you know his email you can inform him that no bomb was throw on £ódź during the World War II... that's why it looks like it looks ;)

Also most of Lodzians move to Warsaw. The problem of £ódź has nothing to do with joining EU.

Edit.
Another gem: £ÓD- WAS NEVER A CAPITAL CITY OF POLAND!
It was took under consideration whether to make £ódź the capital city of Poland but eventually that never happened.
ifor bach 11 | 152
7 Jan 2013  #5
Another gem: £ÓD- WAS NEVER A CAPITAL CITY OF POLAND!

According to Wikipedia, it was the de facto capital from the end of WW2 until 1948 while Warsaw was being rebuilt.

What is your view of the article?

Is Szczecin any better?
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #6
I don't know Szczecin.

What is your view of the article?

It's all true about the current situation and the looks of £ódź. However the problem doesn't lay in immigration to foreign countries. £ódź was industrial city, namely textile industry was settled there since the XIX century. The population was growing fast, until in the mid 90s, when the factories started to bankrupt. For some time the private, small business sector was alleviating the unemployment somewhat, but since the asian cheap products started to flood Poland, this sector also went into a crisis in the 2000s.

As a person born here I observe the gradual decay of £ódź. About ten years ago I actually considered £ódź as a nice place to live in. Back then £ódź was famouse of its main market street having the biggest density of club/pubs/bars etc in Poland, there was a lot of fan around, especially if one was a young person. Now I can't tell where one can go on Friday night because each new place is shut up after a year period. 10-15 ago there was a lot of small shop, services, you didn't see too much of "for rent/sell" signs, now they are commonplace... it's pretty harrowing when you see window panes of derilict shops covered with graffiti, and it's all around in the very centre of the city, which supposed to thrive. Many buildings are bulldozed, but it's actually a good thing since many of the old building are in such a harrowing state that it's all one can do, and even if they were not, they are usuallly a substandard place to inhabit for XXI century ;)

The salaries were always low in £ódź comparing to the rest of Poland, that's why, even though the flats are relatively cheap and the costs of the everyday life are not high, proffesionals move to nearby Warsaw, which ahs better career oppostunities. The close placement of Warsaw is a disadvantage for £ódź, as it's hard to compete with the capital city.

There is a lot pf pathology and social margin in £ódź. It's not a new phenomenom however. It just went a bit worser since the political transformation.

According to Wikipedia, it was the de facto capital from the end of WW2 until 1948 while Warsaw was being rebuilt.

I even had to check it.
Under this link to Polish wikipedia there is a chart with all Polish capital cities and dates.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolica_Polski#XX_wiek

There is no £ódź whatsoever. £ódź was mentioned as a temporary place of residance of the goverment (as well as Lublin, strangely, is included in the chart), however I can't say if a temporary residance might be called capital city of given country. If you ask a Pole on a street if £ódź was for once a capital city of Poland surely one will tell you it wasn't, however most are aware that because of war damages of Warsaw, it was near miss that £ódź would have became one.
terri 1 | 1,620
7 Jan 2013  #7
Another reason why they should teach HISTORY in schools.
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #8
I'm sorry to be an idiot.
bullfrog 6 | 603
7 Jan 2013  #9
According to Wikipedia, it was the de facto capital from the end of WW2 until 1948 while Warsaw was being rebuilt

Well, first we have The Sun, then Wikipedia quoted as sources.. What next, the Pravda?
ifor bach 11 | 152
7 Jan 2013  #10
Wikipedia is a good source. Why do you suggest otherwise?

Btw, I don't believe anyone is claiming 'the Sun' to be some kind of 'authority'.
OP Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2013  #11
If you know his email you can inform him that no bomb was throw on £ódź during the World War II

Tell him yourself, you have the email and im not aquanted with him in anyway.

I think the UK equivalent of Lodz has to Birmingham.
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #12
Wikipedia is a good source.

It's sufficient source of information. I see no problem in making references to it when discussing on a forum.
ifor bach 11 | 152
7 Jan 2013  #13
I don't know Szczecin.

My bad. I confused you with another poster.

It's sufficient source of information. I see no problem in making references to it when discussing on a forum.

I'm sure there is plenty of false information in wikipedia. Just as there is in just about any other source of information.
OP Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2013  #14
I'm sure there is plenty of false information in wikipedia.

wiki is surprisingly accurate considering its size and the fact that its open source - the people write the content.

Just as there is in just about any other source of information.

Daily Mail? Oxford Dictionary? Internet for idiots?
ifor bach 11 | 152
7 Jan 2013  #15
I don't believe there is any kind of reference books anywhere whose content is not disputed by anyone. Including, for example, an Oxford Dictionary.

Have you ever heard of 'the wisdom of the crowd'? If you were to ask a cattle farmer and a non-farmer to estimate the weight of a cow, almost certainly the farmer would be the closest to the actual weight. However, if you were to ask a hundred random people, their mean answer is more likely to be correct than the expert.

Wikipedia works in a similar fashion. The sum of knowledge of hundreds of non-specialists is likely to be greater than that of a single specialist.
Ironside 48 | 9,695
7 Jan 2013  #16
What is your point WB?
OP Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2013  #17
Its not my point - dont shoot the messenger. I came across the article, I posted it, its that simple.

The author has attached his email address, why dont you ask him? or comment on the article.
Ironside 48 | 9,695
7 Jan 2013  #18
Its not my point - dont shoot the messenger.

Hey I'm only asking.

or comment on the article.

Well, i have been constant in berating politicians and establishment in Poland as well as their policies.Well...
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #19
Wikipedia works in a similar fashion.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that at all. In reality it's hard to change a wikipedia entry, even if you're sure it contains a mistake. Usually changes which are not typos are reverted by bots. In low-important articles there are many mistakes and no one actually bothers to check it or take into consideration a complaint about them.

Also don't think that if an article contains a list of footnotes, it makes it reliable. Once when I checked a footnote of a certain article, it turned out that the footnote was claiming something else than was said in the article.

It's good to have an access for such broad source of information for free, but one must be a bit critical when reading it, it might contain mistakes.
poland_
7 Jan 2013  #20
I think the UK equivalent of Lodz has to Birmingham.

Probably Leeds - WB

Birmingham would be Krakow ( Huta steel works) or Gdansk ( shipyards)
gumishu 11 | 5,012
7 Jan 2013  #21
However, if you were to ask a hundred random people, their mean answer is more likely to be correct than the expert.

wrong pal - in the Middle Ages most people believed the earth was flat even though many scientists already believed it to be round
bullfrog 6 | 603
7 Jan 2013  #22
Wikipedia is a good source. Why do you suggest otherwise?

See below why

It's good to have an access for such broad source of information for free, but one must be a bit critical when reading it, it might contain mistakes.

p3undone 8 | 1,135
7 Jan 2013  #23
Lodz looks pretty well kept though.
zetigrek
7 Jan 2013  #24
Have you been there?
Ant63 11 | 403
7 Jan 2013  #25
I think the UK equivalent of Lodz has to Birmingham.

If you were talking about Birmingham 30 years ago, I'd agree. Birmingham has rebuilt itself, certainly not to its former manufacturing glory, but it has evolved. I can think of other cities in the UK that would compare. Not Birmingham though.

I cannot say I've met anybody from Lodz as yet in the UK.

in the Middle Ages most people believed the earth was flat

To be fair there wasn't the same level of education there is now.
ifor bach 11 | 152
7 Jan 2013  #26
wrong pal - in the Middle Ages most people believed the earth was flat even though many scientists already believed it to be round

In the Middle Ages scientists believed in alchemy, theologians in witchcraft, and doctors believed diseases could be cured by the touch of a king.

No doubt many of today's 'experts' are equally mistaken.
jon357 63 | 14,122
8 Jan 2013  #27
Birmingham would be Krakow ( Huta steel works) or Gdansk ( shipyards)

Perhaps. In some ways Lodz is a bit of an ironed out Bradford or Huddersfield. Even Preston, or Middlesborough.

It's one of my favourite cities in PL. uniquely atmospheric, the kind of place where it's nice just to walk around. And of course it has a rich history as the westernmost city in the Russian Empire.

in the Middle Ages most people believed the earth was flat

I doubt 'most people' ever gave a thought to the matter. Sailors had long known it was not.

No doubt many of today's 'experts' are equally mistaken.

A great future ahead.
Bieganski 17 | 901
8 Jan 2013  #28
Anti-Polish stories from the British media shouldn't come as a surprise. It is a shame though that the graffiti and two drunks gave The Sun material to work with.

But does anyone have actual statistics to refute The Sun's claims of £ódź losing so many residents?

There have been other threads on PF in the past boasting of the good but unspecified works of the likes of John Godson who has represented £ódź for many years both in the city council and in the Sejm. But I haven't found anything yet to show that the population of £ódź has been growing, especially with young families, as a result.

Godson's wikipedia page indicates he has been busy furthering his studies and recently finished two doctorates at the University of Warsaw (political Science- 2011) and University of £ódź (Management- 2012).

It must be nice to have so much free time as a politician. Does anybody know how Godson's personal educational pursuits are going to directly and materially benefit the remaining residents of £ódź?
Hipis - | 227
8 Jan 2013  #29
Ahhhhhhh The Sun, of The Scum as I like to call it. A salacious, nasty right wing rag that doesn't let the truth get in the way of an immigrant bashing story. I haven't been to £ódź for a couple of years but Piotrkowska wasn't deserted as it appears to be in The Scum's picture, even at 4am. I can think of only 2-3 days in the year when Polish streets will be that deserted during the day, Easter Sunday, Christmas Day and new year's Day. This "story" is a fine example of finding the pictures to show as evidence for an already predetermined and written article.
zetigrek
8 Jan 2013  #30
the kind of place where it's nice just to walk around.

Have you already tried Limanowskiego at night? A night full of excitement guarantee ;)))
I don't get those Warsovians, they afraid to stroll around old Praga district, but £ódź is fine for them.

Piotrkowska wasn't deserted as it appears to be

The only thing you can find there are bars with vodka for 4 zł, affiliates of banks and other loan institutions, several bookshops, about 2 clothes and 5 shoe shops (2 actually sell leather-made ones, 3 are cheap gum-stinking footwear) and many off-licence shops. There used to be a lot of second hands with clothes but now they have dissapeared.

It's all mostly because of 2 shopping mall situated near each end of Piotrkowska prom.
Of course there is a lot of people on the streets, it's not that no people left in £ódź. Traffic jams happen too.

It is a shame though that the graffiti and two drunks

It's not about graffiti or bunch of drunks who hangs around near Rubinstein's passage . Have you read it actually?


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