The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / UK, Ireland  % width posts: 444

Britain... What the Poles did for us.


Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jan 2009  #151
You asked about aims.

I've already answered the thread topic here in a positive way.
Doverguy - | 14
26 Jan 2009  #152
There is no racial / national issue here because the customers can't give a toss who is selling them the service.

Hmmmmm cheaper unfortunately yes, but alot of that is down to the individuals who are selling them selves as cheap labour. Another factor is that unfortunately, Poles and Liths, etc... work alot harder, and are less prone to going sick. At one time I was in charge of a production line in a plastics factory, and the Polish and Lithuanians did twice as much work as the Brits. (And I'm a Brit).

4) Britain is a country of immigrants.

Mr B, I think most immigrants come here for a better standard of living. Also the British are more tolerant of people than alot of other nations.

while most roast-beef eating, union-jack waving true Brits were simply born British by accident.

Oh dear!!!! (Glad I accidentaly popped out here then ;) By the way... Where's the Yorkshire Pudds, parsnips, and gravy.... Be a good chap and pass the Horseradish....

God I'm hungry now...... (AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! another country!!!)

Cheerfull banter hurts no man.....
Mister H 10 | 759
26 Jan 2009  #153
Since when do muslims hold british values like the native brits. Pakistanis are muslim and are nothing like us british

Cr*p !

Have you ever met a muslim and had a proper conversation with one ?

And not the ones that get interviewed on the BBC, while struggling to find the words "Yes I condemn all terrorists!", I mean the ones that are just living their lives and getting up and going to work and paying bills etc just like any other normal person.

I've worked with several down the years and I've yet to encounter one without many values that could be seen as British. They're mainly very decent and hard-working and are as fed up with being stereotyped as the Scottish are for being seen as tight-fisted, violent, bigoted alcoholics !
Doverguy - | 14
26 Jan 2009  #154
Nicely said Mister H, abit stronger than I would have liked, but I get the jist.
Personaly I think of all people as being equal, untill they burst the bubble.
There's good and bad in every one of us, but it's if the good can't suppress the bad that hell breaks out. I like every one of the peolple on the planet has burst the bubble at sometime. It's if you can see the problem, and meet it face to face, that the repair work starts. No one nationality are bad, or worse than the rest, it's the minorities that cause the grief for others to bare, and it's the ones that get enjoyment out of it that are the real devils, and tar every one else with the same brush. You have to meet people as individuals, what ever nationality or religeon they are, and start with a blank peice of paper. No one is born good or bad, they choose thier own path. Hopefully there are more good people on the planet than bad, but our self defence mechanism in us all tends to put a label on where a person comes form as marking them one way or the other. It's up to the individual to look past that label, and be stronge enough to see the good guys out there. A person is a person, not an individual with a label hanging over thier head, and boarders are for crossing, not for breaking, or distroying.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089
26 Jan 2009  #155
Mr B, I think most immigrants come here

- Doverguy, but Poles predominantly AREN'T immigrants, only temporary 'guest workers' in UK. The evidence of this is their leaving Britain en masse now, because they figure it's not profitable for them to work and live there. So they go to work in Holland and Scandinavia instead. It's the media people in UK who have been calling the Poles repeatedly 'immigrants' (and, as the Goebbels reportedly said, a lie repeated ten times becomes the truth), in order to divert attention of the British from the real immigrants - folks from the Third World. The media characters are in favour of the latter's settling in UK. It's regrettable many people in Britain allow themselves to be brainwashed by the media psychopaths. George Orwell writes somewhere that British people are the most brainwashable by the media of all Europeans (or something of this sort). I hope I don't sound insulting? It wasn't my intention to be so.
MrBubbles 10 | 614
27 Jan 2009  #156
- Doverguy, but Poles predominantly AREN'T immigrants, only temporary 'guest workers' in UK.

Good point!

immigrant - one who comes to live in a country
migrant - one who moves to another country temporarily, usually for work
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Jan 2009  #157
Mister H, there are many in Scotland like that for sure but it is said, with some backing, that the English deflected the attention from their own stinginess onto the Scots. I don't know how much truth there is to that, tbh.

What I do know is that, within Scotland, there is a perception that Aberdonians are tight-fisted people and that they give the rest of Scotland a bad name. I think it's true to a large extent and I lived there for over 20 years. My family hate many Aberdonians for this reason. My mum always has a story to tell.

Puzzy has a point. Around Sep 2004, when many Poles had already left for British shores, the exchange rate was above 7:1. This was the talk of the times. Even a 1000 pound(s) a month job in Britain would become 7200PLN. That's more than many get here, probably more than double the national average. However, it's more like 4:1 now. Watch any Youtube video, they wanted 2 or 3 year stints in the UK, save like a demon, and get set up here in Poland. This is corroborated by the students I taught. I checked their CV's for them and they wanted to go for that time period.

The Poles woke us up to what a bunch of lazy, binge-drinking people we can be. In Scotland, we have this culture but it's more predominant in England.
osiol 55 | 3,922
27 Jan 2009  #158
but Poles predominantly AREN'T immigrants, only temporary 'guest workers' in UK

"Guest worker" is not a term used in this country. Many have come here with that kind of idea - earn some pound and take it back to Poland and turn them into zloty. Many have not come with that idea.

My friend Jurek has now been out of work since before Christmas. The general air of pessimism not just in this country but around the world that is causing the economic gubbins we're going through at the moment is not helping. The fact that his English skills are, to be fair, rubbish, doesn't help either. However, his wife and his daughter are all still in work. They all relocated to this country, not just to be "guest workers", but hopefully to make a better future for themselves.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Jan 2009  #159
That's also true, OsioĊ‚. Many Poles are in it for the long haul. They have completely lost faith in their homeland. There was a survey, sorry Puzzler, dunno where exactly, which showed that many Poles plan to stay in the UK.

You want proof? You can't handle the proof, LOL

eubusiness.com/news-eu/1225472522.33
this is from a reliable source. I chose not to opt for the Daily Mail as it is a bigoted rag.

That's the benefit of the edit function. Talks of removing it are nonsensical.
time means 5 | 1,310
27 Jan 2009  #160
dunno where exactly, which showed that many Poles plan to stay in the UK.

PROOF i say PROOF give it to me. sorry puz :-)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Jan 2009  #161
We all know the downsides of surveys tho. Nobody admitted to voting for Conservative in any surveys years back, yet they won a landslide victory, LOL. The Mori and Gallup polls were wholly misleading.

Survey results can often be ignored too. Just as RyanAir and BAA did when the survey showed a strong demand for flights from Aberdeen Airport. They turned away :(

There is no doubt that the Poles helped out in many areas. The claims that they are benefit scroungers are overstated. The stats, provided they are not cooked, should paint the picture and tell the story.
Doverguy - | 14
30 Jan 2009  #162
The claims that they are benefit scroungers are overstated.

Well said Seanus, most aren't here to take benifits. Unfortunately a few are and the media picks up on them and puts a 'Label' on the Whole because of the few. News papers are very good at that, and that's why I don't bother buying one any more. (Who needs a paper with TV, Teletext and the Internet in any case).

Goebbels reportedly said, a lie repeated ten times becomes the truth),

There's a name I HATE....But unfortunately there was some truth in that quote.
Some time ago I went on a coarse about making the customer No.1. One thing that stuck my mind vividly was that if you say bad about some thing / some one / a group of people, then 17 people will remember it. Say good about the same thing / people then only 4 people listen. It's the caveman thing, we stay away from things that we're told might hurt us. Modern man has kept that, but when you realise it you become free to make your own choices. (Hence I don't bother with papers any more).

I've also seen individuals who use this instinct to discredit, and harm individuals, and the people who do that are pure poison.
TV News is similar. I remember years ago the News said there was wide spread rioting in Athens. Some friends of the family lived in the street they showed on TV, and watched from their balcony. The wide spread riots, was in fact about 50 teenage students in one street fighting over something minor.

Since I OPENED my eyes I became fascinated by how people have used this caveman instinct for thier own desires.
The most noted person was Hitler (another name that makes me shudder).
He realised the instinct was in every one, and used it for his own ends.
After recruiting a few followers, he gave speaches at the German railway clubs to recuite people on mass. The negative thing he used to spark the mass following was a small group of Polish people who were SUPPOSED (?) to have burnt a church full of Germans.

The people (well fueled on Alcohol, which brings the basic instincts closer to the surface) unfortunately listend. The rest is tragic history.
The media is doing the same thing to Polish people now (very unfairly in my OPEN eyes).
Knowing a few polish people, they are here because they want a nicer, safer place to live and work. They pay thier taxs the same as every one else, and take nothing from the state.

Some are even ashamed to say they are Polish because of the negative things said in the media and the blinkered view most people have because of it.

The media just wants to make money by selling papers. Try to OPEN your eyes when you read something, or hear something about another person.

If someone is LABELED bad by someone, then take another look. It's probably someone else out to make trouble for them for no good reason for thier own gains.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Jan 2009  #163
People don't seem to realise that getting a job can be a job in itself for some. Registering for JSA is sensible. You need money in the interim before you get into work.

I admit that some Poles were very hasty to up sticks and dive into their new jobs but they were the unrealistic ones who thought they were entering into some utopian world. Not the majority by any stretch.
Mister H 10 | 759
30 Jan 2009  #164
My friend Jurek has now been out of work since before Christmas.

What does Juerk make of the "British jobs for British workers" situation in Lincolnshire ?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7859968.stm

What does Jurek expect to be able to do with, as you put it, "rubbish" English skills ?
Doverguy - | 14
31 Jan 2009  #165
What does Juerk make of the "British jobs for British workers" situation in Lincolnshire

Good Afternoon Mister H. I was in one of the local pubs when Sky News showed the protests outside an oil refinery. They showed Gordon Brown making his speech and I started to think 'Oh No'... It sounds like the contract for the work was signed along time ago when the whole worlds situation was different to what it is today.This is something that we need to remember. I think this was one speech where Mr Brown should have taken his thumb out of his butt and put it in his mouth.... It would have been more use there. In the EEC anyone from a member state has the right to take up work in another country within the EEC, so there shouldn't have been a problem. Now the world climate has changed drasticaly for the worse, but the contract should still stand. This could be the start of people falling over the edge, and it's a long way to fall. I hope the problem doesn't spread, and is taken 'peacefully' under control. Petrol prices are likely to rise soon, and this will add to peoples unhappiness. I hope the media has the common sense to suppress anyone standing up and saying that the situation might be caused by foreign nationals, because that isn't true, but people will be looking for a scape goat, and the media has already decided to highlight one, and it's very unfair in my eyes. The recession will last for years and deepen before it will get better, and that in it's self will make people start queing up at the edge of the cliff. If I was a foreign national, then I might be getting some of my things packed ready to go home because it could become nasty for every one involved, but it's too early to say yet. Keep your EYEs open and don't listen to too much of the media hype. People are people no matter where they come from, and should be treated with respect. My biggest hope is that there won't be any nastyness in the future. I for one won't pick sides and wouldn't condone any trouble. I hope there is never a crystal night ever again aimed at any people, any where, but that is the horrible direction this is heading, and I so hope I'm wrong.

People don't seem to realise that getting a job can be a job in itself for some.

Well said Seanus.... I'm so glad I work for my self right now.
osiol 55 | 3,922
31 Jan 2009  #166
What does Jurek expect to be able to do with, as you put it, "rubbish" English skills ?

I think he is personally stuck in a rut, just hoping for some work painting and decorating (which is, of course, declining as the property market diminishes), but most of all, hoping to get his old job back working with trees and shrubs (which is also declining with the property market). I don't know how aware of this northern business he is. He does want to learn to speak English, but still needs to change something in his own mind to make the effort to do it. I'm sure he's not the only one in his position.
Doverguy - | 14
31 Jan 2009  #167
The fact that his English skills are, to be fair, rubbish,

Dodgy ground Osiol.... One person may have very good skills, and another may pretend to have them....... I think that's the same in any country, not just the UK. For example, I've worked with some Polish people that were excellent engineers. But I've also worked with others that have needed more help than you would have expected. It's the same in any country.... It's life...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
31 Jan 2009  #168
Of course, it just depends on the area. If you work in Law, then your English has to be close to impeccable. If you lift things all day, then gesturing would seem to suffice. Failing that, grunts ;)
Doverguy - | 14
6 Feb 2009  #169
Of course unlike If some guy selling choclate would leave Poland... That would be disaster...

Grzegorz_ I disagree!!!!!!!!
If Michalki wasn't available in the UK, THEN THAT 'Would be a Disaster!!!' But my dentist loves me eating them, as it keeps him well employed ;)

God Bless Wawel....and ALL they produce!!!
I can never eat more than one layer at a time (18).... But since the credit crunch they have reduced the layer to 15!!! OOOoooooooooohhh Nooooooooooo!!!!! :(
The thing that gets me is I HATE Plain Chocolate... and I'm sure they ARE plain chocolate!

Can any one tell me when Polish Easter is please? (As I think the dates are different to the UK Easter)..

Only 2 more left to go, and that's this layer done.... :(
(Only 2 1/2 boxes left to go.... How will my poor dentist cope if I give them up..).
redundancy looms him in the face :}
Darn it.... Time to start on the bottom layer.... This is ALL down to the Americans for starting a credit crunch. It's put me and my chocs all out of sync now! ;)

Nuke them I say!.... Nuke them!!! How dare they mess up the fine balance between me and my chocs!!! LoL
Cheerfull Batter Hurts No One..
Trevek 26 | 1,702
6 Feb 2009  #170
Since when do muslims hold british values like the native brits. Pakistanis are muslim and are nothing like us british

Well, perhaps since they became involved in UK political parties like Labour/Conservatives, perhaps since they got seats in The Lords, perhaps when they embraced the educational system (more than a couple in Glasgow Uni) or since they opened up corner shops and worked hard (didn't Napoleon refer to Britain as a 'Nation of Shopkeepers'?)
Doverguy - | 14
10 Feb 2009  #171
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm it's gone very quiet in here.... Has everybody emigrated? (he says quietly packing)...
Doverguy - | 14
24 Feb 2009  #172
But why it must be a cat...?!

Most of my posts feature cats..... ;)


  • Music to my Ears


Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Feb 2010  #173
Poland did well with intercepts and code cracking. Churchill was such a bumptious git that he didn't conceal messages well enough in his correspondence with Roosevelt. Poland was realistic whereas Churchill was on a constant ego trip. He'd better have been grateful for the superb Polish and Scottish contributions. Scotland had nothing like the devastation of Coventry, for example, it was razed to the ground.
BritishEmpire - | 148
25 Feb 2010  #174
Well, perhaps since they became involved in UK political parties like Labour/Conservatives, perhaps since they got seats in The Lords, perhaps when they embraced the educational system (more than a couple in Glasgow Uni) or since they opened up corner shops and worked hard (didn't Napoleon refer to Britain as a 'Nation of Shopkeepers'?)

Does bombing tube trains and buses count as being british aswell?.

Poland did well with intercepts and code cracking.

Don't get carried away seanus, poland only intercepted an early version of the enigma that was withdrawn at the outbreak of war, the later versions of enigma code required what are considered to be the first computers to break their codes.

What churchill did was to ensure that britain survived, for that i will take my hat off.
Whether polish people like that or not the reality is that poland was defeated and even with the benefit of hindsight this would have always been the outcome.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
26 Feb 2010  #175
even with the benefit of hindsight this would have always been the outcome.

Not necessarily - if Poland and Pilsudski had trained the Polish Army to use guerilla warfare against the Germans instead of trying to fight man to man, Poland may just have had a chance. Blitzkrieg might not have been very successful against such a tactic - they would occupy the country unopposed, but would face a almost nightmare situation of every man or woman being potentially capable of shooting their heads off at any moment.

The country would also be far less demoralised if it was an accepted tactic to blend in and then kill Germans without remorse - and you would have the problems of the Germans not enjoying what was happening. The Soviet Union would also probably have second thoughts if they realised that there was no way to take Poland conventionally - how can you fight an enemy if you don't even know who the enemy is?

I suspect the Miracle at the Vistula clouded Polish military thinking somewhat - I don't doubt that there was a certain element of Polish military generals that believed Poland was capable of fighting man to man.
convex 20 | 3,978
26 Feb 2010  #176
Not necessarily - if Poland and Pilsudski had trained the Polish Army to use guerilla warfare against the Germans instead of trying to fight man to man, Poland may just have had a chance.

That wouldn't have been tolerated. Guerrilla warfare would have given a great reason to go into scorched earth mode, and eventually just murder or deport all the remaining Poles.
Marek11111 9 | 816
26 Feb 2010  #177
the tactics of Polish army ware from ww1 and also on assumption that France and England will attack Germany from west side.
Polish disaster in September was dwarf by France disaster but you have to admit that Polish home army was the best and largest during WW2.
Ogorki - | 115
26 Feb 2010  #178
Poland was reading Enigma messages in the early 30's when Enigma was used for business prposes in Germany. Poles kept cracked the enigma code until the war broke out and simply passed on the craking formula to the Brits. It would have taken the Brits 1-2 years to crack the code at this advaced stage. Enough time for Hitler to complete his A Bomb. :)
jonni 16 | 2,485
26 Feb 2010  #179
simply passed on the craking formula to the Brits

Simply passed on. Interesting...

a) Was it the "craking formula" or something else?

b) Was it the same Enigma machine that they used before and during the war?

c) If Poland gave them the answers on a plate, why were thousands of people used each day to search for patterns and manually decrypt messages?

d) What proportion of Axis communications used Enigma and what proportion used Lorenz?

Bletchley Park were deciphering the messages by sheer intellect for a long long time, without any pre-war mathematical codes from Eastern Europe.

But at least a Brit invented computers as a result.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
26 Feb 2010  #180
Bletchley Park were deciphering the messages by sheer intellect for a long long time, without any pre-war mathematical codes from Eastern Europe.

Former Bletchley Park mathematician-cryptologist Gordon Welchman has written: "Ultra would never have gotten off the ground if we had not learned from the Poles, in the nick of time, the details both of the German military... Enigma machine, and of the operating procedures that were in use." Gordon Welchman, The Hut Six Story, 1st ed., 1982, p. 289.


Home / UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us.
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.