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Benefit cuts for Poles in The UK?


jon357 63 | 14,139
14 Feb 2013 #1
Ministers are considering ways of cutting welfare payments to immigrants, including reducing the amount of child benefit sent abroad by foreign nationals. The annual benefits bill for foreign children is currently £36m, with two-thirds of the cash going to Poland.

They will study a recent French decision to slash benefit payments to immigrants by 83 per cent - a move that could potentially encourage migrants to cross the Channel.

The Government also fears that reports of access to the National Health Service are acting as a significant "pull-factor" to newcomers.

Whitehall sources said ministers did not want to stop treatment for "foreigners dying in accident-and-emergency," but to make sure people did not receive routine care in Britain because it was quicker and more efficient than in their home countries.

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pm-t argets-benefits-for-eu-nationals-8494030.html

The appropriate time to have done this has probably long passed but at least they're finally addressing it. Personally I favour a reciprocal approach. Poles in the UK having the same entitlements to benefits, land ownership rights ans voting rights as Britons in Poland and vice versa - an equal deal.
zetigrek
14 Feb 2013 #2
I've heard somewhere recently that Poles contribute 2 billions to the budget. Just to remind.
poland_
14 Feb 2013 #3
All well and good Zeti and how much do the British workers and companies contribute to the Polish Economy?

Nothing is for free, when you give to one, you must take from another.

The levels the UK social services are going to beggars belief, a polish family from Warsaw with four children in the UK. The social services decided the parents are alcoholics and put the children into foster homes 2 boys - 2 girls, the grandmother in Warsaw applied for rights of the two girls as the GM is retired she also applied for income support, the social services visited the GM in Warsaw and agreed for the two girls to be relocated to Poland, also as the children have been educated in the UK for the last four years, the UK social services agreed to pay for private English/Polish schools for the girls in Warsaw and provide the GM with income support. The two boys are still in foster homes and the parents live together in council housing claiming benefits and are still on the amber nectar. As a side note a member of my family in the UK, who has worked for the government for 35 years took early retirement, he has been diagnosed with advanced Huntington's and now has to go into a nursing home, the local authority will take 50% of his works pension, his state pension and all of his disability allowance as well as drawing down on 50% of the ownership of his joint property. He has worked and payed taxes and NI all his life, contributed to the state coffers, saved his money in hope of a stress free retirement. Now I do not wish these children any malice and I hope the family works through their problems, I ask the question where is the balance?

The Uk Gov have to reward those who have paid in and provide a safe future for its own, NOT being the hand out kings of Europe.
OP jon357 63 | 14,139
14 Feb 2013 #4
Bang on. British businesses and their stakeholders put a lot into PL as does the British taxpayer through EU subsidies.

Generally, Poland's guiding principle in international relations is reciprocity. What could be more appropriate than equality here.
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Feb 2013 #5
As a side note a member of my family in the UK, who has worked for the government for 35 years took early retirement, he has been diagnosed with advanced Huntington's and now has to go into a nursing home, the local authority will take 50% of his works pension, his state pension and all of his disability allowance as well as drawing down on 50% of the ownership of his joint property.

I thought the Thatcher revolution saved Britain? Those policies are a direct result of people voting in a Tory government.

The Uk Gov have to reward those who have paid in and provide a safe future for its own, NOT being the hand out kings of Europe.

There is not much Cameron and co can do unless they want to leave the EU or totally dismantle the welfare state.
zetigrek
14 Feb 2013 #6
The levels the UK social services are going to beggars belief, a polish family from Warsaw with four children in the UK.

Indeed the story is beyond belief. If that's how it look like then indeed it's a good move to cut the benefits.
I'm sorry for your family member.
poland_
14 Feb 2013 #7
There is not much Cameron and co can do unless they want to leave the EU or totally dismantle the welfare state.

Cameron and co are already proposing changes.
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Feb 2013 #8
I believe that all EU countries have to allow access to benefits to all other EU nationals so it’s either scrap welfare, which I believe he wants to do, or leave the EU.
OP jon357 63 | 14,139
14 Feb 2013 #9
I believe that all EU countries have to allow access to benefits to all other EU nationals

Equal access. UK benefits, fought for for decades aren't reciprocated when Brits go to, for example, PL.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Feb 2013 #10
Benefit cuts for Poles in The UK?

Yawn..

Poles in the UK having the same entitlements to benefits, land ownership rights ans voting rights as Britons in Poland and vice versa - an equal deal.

So which rights, English in Poland are denied ?
OP jon357 63 | 14,139
14 Feb 2013 #11
So which rights, English in Poland are denied ?

Are you suggesting there is absolute equality in the areas mentioned in my post that you quoted or that Britons in PL get exactly the same deal as Poles in the UK? Yes, it's evidently true that you abandoned Poland so long ago that you aren't familiar with the Poland of today.
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Feb 2013 #12
Equal access.

As you live in Poland you have full rights to the Polish welfare system just as Polish people living in the UK have full access to Britain’s.

I think that is fair, Cameron cant discriminate against other EU nationals all he can do is reform the welfare system. If he limits universal benefits for Poles he has to do the same for British Nationals.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Feb 2013 #13
If he limits universal benefits for Poles he has to do the same for British Nationals.

Barney speaks truth.
Ironside 48 | 9,837
14 Feb 2013 #14
land ownership rights

land ownership can and should be exuded.

Bang on. British businesses and their stakeholders put a lot into PL as does the British taxpayer through EU subsidies.

All well and good Zeti and how much do the British workers and companies contribute to the Polish Economy?

I see a pattern here the Messiah complex seems to be emerging. The force is very strong in British expats lol.
By the way Cameron and pumping monies into banks any update on that>?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Feb 2013 #15
Are you suggesting there is absolute equality in the areas mentioned in my post that you quoted or that Britons in PL get exactly the same deal as Poles in the UK? Yes, it's evidently true that you abandoned Poland so long ago that you aren't familiar with the Poland of today.

I've got no idea, that's why I'm asking, I guess that after 200 years of not living in Poland I'm indeed out of touch with the rights of English people living in PL.
grubas 12 | 1,391
14 Feb 2013 #16
If they are going to curb access to healthcare and other benefits, I also assume immigrant workers will benefit from lower rates of taxation on their income. It's only fair. Why should they pay for benefits they are not entitled to?I am pretty sure that would work well for Polish migrants who in vast majority already fly to PL for medical treatment.More money left in their pockets.Also,36 MILLION?Is this what the fuss is all about?It is like me trying to save 2 pennies.I find this whole thing to be political issue.
poland_
14 Feb 2013 #17
I believe that all EU countries have to allow access to benefits to all other EU nationals

No in many Eu countries for example Spain you can only take pout what you have put in.

Equal access. UK benefits, fought for for decades aren't reciprocated when Brits go to, for example, PL

Exactly, Poland is no longer the poor man of Europe.The Uk could easily adopt the same policy as many countries in Europe, prove you have private medical care before you register for work. The national health service is a flagship in the world and it should not be abused by those who have not contributed to the system.

I am pretty sure that would work well for Polish migrants who in vast majority already fly to PL for medical treatment

Quite the reverse Grubas.

The Netherlands had a system called ' non resident/resident ' you come and work pay lower tax than the locals when your contracts up, you leave on the next plane. You therefore do not become a burden to society.
Barney 14 | 1,469
14 Feb 2013 #18
No in many Eu countries for example Spain you can only take pout what you have put in.

Its simple, the local social security regulations (in each EU country) have to be offered to all other resident EU nationals.
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
14 Feb 2013 #19
The Poles have been raping this country for years now in terms of benefits.
They even have numerous websites and forums filled with a wealth of information about UK "Benefity"

benefity.org.uk
mojawyspa.co.uk/forum/76/Zasilki-i-swiadczenia-socjalne

Even the "hard working" Poles are scrounging Tax Credits and Housing Benefits to top up their income, thus negating any income tax they give to this country.

We're a donor EU nation, basically giving BILLIONS to Poland to sort itself out AND half their population come here and parasite off us.

You couldn't make it up.. really.

If you can't afford to sustain yourself without state aid, you don't belong here.. simple as.
zetigrek
14 Feb 2013 #20
AND half their populationcome here and parasite off us.

that's 19 mln.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
14 Feb 2013 #21
The Uk could easily adopt the same policy

Stop talking about it, just do it.
poland_
14 Feb 2013 #22
If it was that simple I am sure it would have been done.
Ironside 48 | 9,837
14 Feb 2013 #23
nothing to do with Poles and nothing to do with PF
crochetbitch88 2 | 83
14 Feb 2013 #24
If you can't afford to sustain yourself without state aid, you don't belong here.. simple as.

You forget about many foreign people, and many of them are Polish, who don't belong here, yet work and pay taxes so that British people can get benefits and NHS

If the EU is such a disaster for Britain, why don't you leave? Leave the EU, please. But you aren't leaving - you know why? Not because of Poles, Latvians or Portugese, but because the British people who own your country don't give a $h!t about what you think. Talk to them. Nobody on PF seems to have the power to change anything in Britain no matter how much you moan.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
14 Feb 2013 #25
the British people who own your country don't give a $h!t about what you think.

quite true
poland_
14 Feb 2013 #26
nothing to do with Poles

Any changes in the UK benefits system would affect a great number of Polish economical migrants in the UK.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
15 Feb 2013 #27
I believe that all EU countries have to allow access to benefits to all other EU nationals so it's either scrap welfare, which I believe he wants to do, or leave the EU.

Make it that the claimant must be habitually resident in the country for five years before getting a red cent. ;)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
15 Feb 2013 #28
EU

If English kill off this monster, I will perhaps even stop calling them pinks.
ToryRight - | 17
16 Feb 2013 #29
Let's do what the French have done.. Let them claim benefits but only 17% of what British nationals get, don't give them social housing, and make them pay to use the NHS.

It will stop UKIP stealing Con votes!
NotOneOfYou - | 1
16 Feb 2013 #30
Its simple, the local social security regulations (in each EU country) have to be offered to all other resident EU nationals.

The UK system that allows people to go on taking without ever contributing is to blame.

I'm sure things would change overnight if a Spanish or German style insurance system was introduced.


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