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Traveling around Poland - our photo stories with very personal commentary


gumishu 11 | 5,142
11 Jul 2011 #31
Well, why do Jews have their own cemeteries?

maybe for the same reason orthodox people in Poland have their own cemeteries

And why do they still exist? ;)

must be that bloody Polish antisemitism :P - and actually not many old Jewish cemeteries still exist in Central and Eastern Poland

and btw - cremation and scattering of the ashes solves the problem of graveyards - no need for them anymore - the Hindus don't have graveyards - wouldn't you agree they are pretty expensive thing to have in cities
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
11 Jul 2011 #32
not sure what this website is, but it shows my favourite bridge in wroclaw.

Oh, I see.

f

It's actually mostly Austrian/Bohemian, while a few newer buildings are indeed Prussian, ... and the town hall is mostly Bohemian/Lusatian. ;)

Oh.

I did. In the Laws of Manu it stipulates that a Brahmin trading in lac loses his Brahmin status and I agree with this law because such commerce is indeed dirty.

When I think longer about it, yes, I can agree, too. Killing so many innocent insects to satisfy people`s vanity? It is sick. The same with crimson sea snails - they needed 17.000 to dye one robe. What a waste.

Take a look at these broken down graves. They're from the cemetary in Lublin.

Is it vandalism or just lack of maintanance?

Did you also notice that you couldn't find a single German grave in this former German city?

No, I didn`t notice it because it just occured to me that visiting a German cemetery wasn`t on my itinerary. :):):)

Now I am googling the matter and indeed, the only pre-war cemeteries which survived till today are Jewish ones. Even the mass graves of Breslau siege victims were anihilated in 1960/70s.

Well, it is sad but I don`t blame Poles for that. I won`t even say in Poles` defence that communists did it.

No, it was a conscious act by Poles who were lucky to survive the horrible war started by Germans, had to leave their beloved cities/towns in the East (Lwow) and to move to the German city which they didn`t understand or like because it was not only destroyed in larger part but also totally alien, with different culture? Do you think such disillusioned unhappy people should care about German graves? :):):):)

In my view, it isn`t strange there are no German cemeteries in Wrocław now. But attitudes have changed and attempts and plans are made to put up a symbolic tomb for all Wrocław Germans.
gumishu 11 | 5,142
11 Jul 2011 #33
this is the longest footbridge in Wrocław - it crosses Odra between Biskupin and Niskie £ąki

pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:KladkaZwierzyniecka_we_Wr oclawiu.jpg&filetimestamp=20060127183033

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%82adka_Zwierzyniecka

mostypolskie.pl/most/kladka-zwierzyniecka-wroclaw,53,.html

the thing is over 200 m long
jwojcie 2 | 763
11 Jul 2011 #34
1. Wrocław has the same colour trams as Krakow! Really, what plagiarism!!

Oh really? Is there any song about Krakow blue trams? ;) :



"Wroclaw song" by Jerzy Harald (music), Krystyna Wnukowska (lyrics), Maria Koterbska is singing.
Date of song: around 1950.
Goes more or less like this:

"Mkną po szynach niebieskie tramwaje przez wrocławskich ulic sto"
"Blue trams speeds through Wroclaw streets"

But, blue color was introduced by Poles after WWII due to blue color of trams in Lviv. Origin of colour of Krakow trams is mystery to me...

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramwaje_we_Wroc%C5%82awiu
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramwaje_w_Krakowie

PS. some old trams in the video are red, because there was red period after blue, and then blue again :)
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
11 Jul 2011 #35
But, blue color was introduced by Poles after WWII due to blue color of trams in Lviv.

makes sense. Lviv is a twin city.
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
11 Jul 2011 #36
Oh really? Is there any song about Krakow blue trams? ;) :

I don`t know. Probably yes.

Origin of colour of Krakow trams is mystery to me...

White and blue are official urban colours of Krakow.

d

Types of trams in Wrocław:
3 types together:
jwojcie 2 | 763
11 Jul 2011 #37
Anyway it is a shame that you missed Ostrow Tumski. It is kind of like missing Mariacki Church when visiting Krakow.
Good reason to come back one day, when memory of all things you didn't like shades away ;)
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
11 Jul 2011 #38
Anyway it is a shame that you missed Ostrow Tumski.

I wanted to on the last day but the very moment I put bags and stuff into the car it started raining again.

The weather was like this on two last days.

Good reason to come back one day, when memory of all things you didn't like shades away ;)

I will never shade away, I have it in my photos. :):):):)
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
11 Jul 2011 #39
What do I think about Wrocław?

Well, I have mixed feelings. Somewhere else I said I wouldn`t like to live there because it reminds me of Krakow too much. And it is not only blue trams. :):):)

Been to both as a tourist of course, and enjoyed them both, architecture wise, I preferred Krakow but from an atomphere stance, I preferred Wrocław, I thought the people were nicer (no offence, Im just a tourist after all)...I think Wrocław in the summer looks much nicer, I was there in the winter...maybe a return visit is needed for a better comparison.

Great photos Pawain.
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
11 Jul 2011 #40
from an atomphere stance, I preferred Wrocław, I thought the people were nicer

I don`t think so. Remember, modern Vratislavians are descendants of or even the same people who were deported to Wrocław from ex-Eastern Poland after its annexation by the Soviet Union. Those Kresy lands were very close to Asia. And this Asia is still visible in Wrocław today. By Asia I mean barbarism typical of that continent. :):):):)
beckski 12 | 1,617
11 Jul 2011 #41
Is it vandalism or just lack of maintanance?

I think the graves were possibly exhumed at one time, yet never reburied or completely removed for some strange reason?
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
11 Jul 2011 #42
We visited one burial site in Wrocław - Holy Family Cemetery. I wanted to see the monuments there:

Monument to AK - Home Army - underground military organization, the biggest in Europe, during WW2.

And the monument to Lwow Eaglets.

By pure accident we came across the grave of Bolesłąw Orliński, a famous aviator:
or a rough stone

Unusual double, but still seperate grave
Remarkable crosses
And figures
Uncommon grave
Wooden structures

I noticed a lot of graves refering to Polish martyrology during and after WW2.

Post war political prisoners, soldiers of AK
Soldier of AK, inmate at Majdanek concetration camp.
Stanisław Lwojszczyk, Katyn victim

Michał Kula, Auschwitz prisoner, died at the age of 56. He was a member of the metal workshop brigade which maintained camp machinery, after the war he testified for Nuremberg trials.

The inscription on the grave reads - to Michałek (dimunitive of Michał), grateful mates.

He made such lamps for prisoners:

After his death, his daughter donated to the Auschwitz Museum the pictures he received from grateful inmates:

Poland. The good and the bad. Bring it on.

Let`s start with the nasty Wrocłąw.

What makes Wrocław a disgusting place?

A few things which remind me of Krakow:

A lot of bumpy roads:
which, additionally, are narrow in the center and cars drive on tram track.

Heavy traffic

Too many long straight streets with drab, even scruffy houses which could look great if repainted. Practically, most houses (except the ones in the Market Square or newly erected ones) in Wrocław are greyish or even black from pollution and lack of maintanance.

Of course, there are renovated houses in the city but I just hate to see such contrasts anywhere:

Another thing which made me disappointed with Wrocław. I found out that the post-war reconstruction of Wrocław is a myth. They rebuilt the city but it didn`t mean reconstruction, unfortunately. :(:(:(:(

I had thought that at least the Old Town had been reconstructed in the pre-war shape. Imagine my disgust when, standing in the Main Square, I could see those banal socialist blocks of flats next to it. Oh, my God.

We had come across them walking to the Main Square and I had started wondering: where am I? In medieval Wrocław or in Nowa Huta district in Krakow?

When we left the Square and went eastwards, we were still haunted by those ugly fillings:

In Poland`s Riddle Thread I asked how many architectonic styles are visible here. With a tongue in my cheek but also tears in my eyes.

To see the mixed architecture of Wrocław, you should climb the church tower:

I hated that view.
Palivec - | 380
20 Jul 2011 #43
I had thought that at least the Old Town had been reconstructed in the pre-war shape. Imagine my disgust when, standing in the Main Square, I could see those banal socialist blocks of flats next to it. Oh, my God.

No, contrary to popular belief there was propably more destruction than reconstruction. There is no doubt that the Commies invested huge sums to reconstruct *parts* of the old town, but this was mainly Ostrów Tumski and the market square. But even there you can't see the pre-war shape. Ostrów Tumski and the churches were Polonized, the market square was de-Prussified. The eastern part of the old town was leveled to win bricks for Warsaw. Other parts were removed to built the ring road which cuts through the old town.
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
20 Jul 2011 #44
No, contrary to popular belief there was propably more destruction than reconstruction.

Who knows? I hadn`t believed it but I saw it.

What a pity. Old pics of Wrocław show that many houses still stood after the war, before they got demolished.

E.g., in 1970 they prefered pulling down those two houses

and keeping this hole for 30 years

before filling it with modern architecture

From this great site:

The eastern part of the old town was leveled to win bricks for Warsaw.

Yes, it looks like Nowa Huta district in Krakow.

What a sore to the eyes.

Other parts were removed to built the ring road which cuts through the old town.

Yes, it is visible after comparing this old photo:

with today`s satellite view
wroclaw.hydral.com.pl/19940,obiekt.html
Palivec - | 380
21 Jul 2011 #45
The first house looks like late 18th/early 19th century = Prussian classicism. The second one wasn't such a big loss if you ask me.

BTW.: the biggest loss of the 70s was the Prussian wing of the castle, which survived the war in relatively good condition.

And the more you read about the time after '45 the more you realize that the city had quite a bit to endure then too. Many people for instance think the churches were always that empty, but, if the church wasn't compeletey destroyed anyway, the Commies deliberately stripped them from all decorations to make them appear medieval, i.e. "Polish".

Did you know, for instance, that the chor of the cathedral looked like this:

All baroque decorations, from the choir screen for example, are gone today.
gumishu 11 | 5,142
21 Jul 2011 #46
the cathedral was burnt out during the siege of Wrocław as far as I know so presuming much of the baroque decoration you are talking about was wooden there was little that remained
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
21 Jul 2011 #47
The cathedral was almost entirely destroyed (about 70% of the construction) during the Siege of Breslau and heavy bombing by the Red Army in the last days of World War II. Parts of the interior fittings were saved and are now on display at the National Museum in Warsaw
Nojas 4 | 110
21 Jul 2011 #48
My trip to Ojcow nationalpark:

Road in/close to Ojcow. This strip is in very good condition, and I could see why a lot of motorcyclist kept going back and forth on it.

Small walk from the main parking, nice view from a small cliff. Cafés/restaurants below. In the far background you can see Ojcow castle ruins.

The entrance to "Jaskinia Lokietka". The spiderweb gate as symbol to how the legend goes.

Walking down the mountain. I let her have the map but needed to step in and steer us down anyway.... ;-)

Not far from "Zrodlo Milosci". I also believe that "Jaskinia Ciemna" is right there. Close to left corner you can see a man made bridge/balcony. I think. Or it was on a picture with other angle. But it's there. ^^

I called it the " **** you" mountain.

Fun fact. The man had just crashed into that woman with his bike. She was walking almost in the grass but obviously there wasn't enough space for both of them.... ^

Overlooking the valley from Ojcow castle ruins.

Ojcow castle ruins. It was sitting on a cool location indeed.

"Chapel over water"

Nice castle which I don't remember the name of. Skala castle?

"Maczuga Herkulesa". Very nice piece of rock. ;-) Apparently very famous as well.
Monia
21 Jul 2011 #49
thanks to European funds. Thank you, EU! :):):)

Taking into consideration, that most of these funds were generated by the Germans, there is not too much to thank, as previously they totally destroyed our country and deported en masse during the war, Polish citizens to work as slavery workers in Germany ,I consider it as form of compensation , it is better late than never.:):):) .

Other UE members also build their highways for EU funds ( vide Spain , Italy, Greece , etc) , it is a pity , we are the last .
Harry
21 Jul 2011 #50
I consider it as form of compensation , it is better late than never

I see that you still want to lie. Nevermind, I will simply remind everybody here that Poland's reparations from Germany were paid in precisely the way which the Polish government wanted.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
21 Jul 2011 #51
that most of these funds were generated by the Germans

Actually, we all pay.

Other UE members also build their highways for EU funds ( vide Spain , Italy, Greece ,

etc)
Spain, Italy, Greece joined far earlier.
[quote=Monia , it is a pity , we are the last .[/quote]
Interesting that you don't mention Bulgaria, Romania etc. They are the last. Lying again or just wrong?
Harry
21 Jul 2011 #52
Lying again or just wrong?

Well, it is after lunch, so there might just be an alternative explanation.
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
21 Jul 2011 #53
Nice castle which I don't remember the name of. Skala castle?

Yes, Pieskowa Skała Castle.

Nice pictures. Thanks.

When I finish processing mine, I will add them to your great story to explain a few things. After all, we went to the National Park on the same day. :):):)

Taking into consideration, that most of these funds were generated by the Germans, there is not too much to thank, as previously they totally destroyed our country and deported en masse during the war, Polish citizens to work as slavery workers in Germany ,I consider it as form of compensation , it is better late than never.:):):) .

Clever thinking. :):):):)

So, instead of saying :Thank you EU! I should say: Thank you, Germany! ?

OK, it is fine with me: thank you Germany for sponsoring Poland. :):):):)
Palivec - | 380
21 Jul 2011 #54
Taking into consideration, that most of these funds were generated by the Germans, there is not too much to thank, as previously they totally destroyed our country and deported en masse during the war, Polish citizens to work as slavery workers in Germany ,I consider it as form of compensation , it is better late than never.:):):) .

What is the property of 9 million Silesian, Pomeranian and East Prussian Germans for you?
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
21 Jul 2011 #55
Those several rusty pots and pans, you mean? It probably sufficed to cover the losses of Warsaw. What about the rest of occupied Poland which suffered damage or complete destruction? :):):)
Monia
21 Jul 2011 #56
Clever thinking. :):):):)

Going further , I would say that , Germany is the great beneficiary of this system, because the money that were paid for the Polish-built road, returned to Germany again, and exactly to the German companies, the vast proportion of which were given contracts for highway construction ( with the exception of some Austrian , English, Irish , Spanish) .
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
21 Jul 2011 #57
Germany is the great beneficiary of this system, because the money that were paid for the Polish-built road, returned to Germany again, and exactly to the German companies

I didn`t know about it but if you say so.....
gumishu 11 | 5,142
22 Jul 2011 #58
you don't know plenty of things pawian apparently - you don't know for example prime minister Tusk is a blatant liar
OP pawian 168 | 11,004
22 Jul 2011 #59
I prefer blatant liar Tusk than blatant liar Kaczyński. Isn`t it clear? :):):):)

A few last remarks about Wrocław.

I acquired an irresistible suspicion that Wratislavians, after being forcedly resettled into Wrocław from Eastern Poland, still haven`t taken to the city and treat it as alien. Shortly speaking, I had an impressins that residents of Wrocław don`t like their city and have no idea what to do in it and with it.

First observance refers to grafitti and spraying on all kinds of objects. Wrocław abounds in spray painted surfaces. In no other city have I seen so much of that revolting vandalism.

I don`t mind fences in outskirts.

But tags on walls in the Main Square, bins, bridges, playground equipment, even benches and trees in the park? This is so sickening.

Do Wratislavians believe it is their new świecka tradition to spray on objects? A lot of official murals seem to demand recognition as art.
School

Is there a food that is specific for Wroclaw, like e.g. cebularze for Lublin?

Yes. Flądra odgardlona: I have never seen it anywhere else.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
23 Jul 2011 #60
A lot of official murals seem to demand recognition as art.

i've mentioned in another thread that the graffiti in wroclaw is a disgrace. for a future city of culture it doesn't show anything good about the city. and i also doubt it will be cleaned up before euro 2012.

about the above pictures: the second from last is quite clever. the bottom 2-3 metres look like hooligan graffiti, but not all of it is. it is part of the original artwork.

some of the 'paid for' art is interesting. and i'd rather have it than those fcuking big canvas advertising posters, which cover the whole face of some buildings.

Is there a food that is specific for Wroclaw, like e.g. cebularze for Lublin?

red cabbage bigos, although i've never seen any.


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