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Will I have a problem upon exiting Poland? (American visited Poland through Germany)


MojeKochanie
21 Oct 2010  #1
Hello friends, I am an American who visited Poland via Germany (transfer) on July 16th for my fiance and some friends who I met while back in United States, therefore, my passport was stamped at the first port I arrived in the Schenegen Area which was Germany. I have been on vacation and been to many famous cities in Poland so far since I got to the country. On the 13th of October, I left Poland for United Kingdom for 6 days on vacation with my fiance, meanwhile, during the journey at the United Kingdom, we left to Ireland for a day which I got 2 different stamps from 2 different countries (U.K and Ireland) upon my arrival. Then, I made the trip back to Poland on the 19th of October and I was admitted.

I fully understand about the Schenegen rules on 90 days in 180 days, however, I was told by one of the Officers that I may only do this once since my first arrival in Poland, I was interested to apply for a permit to study the language, however, I've already passed the time frame, therefore, I needed to get out from the country for stamps as an evidence of not over-staying and come back to get another 90 days. I'm nervous if at the end of the second arrival or 90 days in term of going back home to United States, I'll face any difficulties. Do any of you have any suggestions or recomendations? I'm also interested of doing or open some small business here in Poland, do you think it would not be a problem if during my second 90 days stay, I'm requesting for a business permit? Do any of you know the procedures of obtaining permit, license, tax identification, health inspection, fees for all of those, time frame for processing and offices that I need to go to?

My fiance is a Polish wanted to get married in Poland, however, I didn't, due to unfamiliar laws and different language, therefore, getting married in United States, I think is a best option. Any comments?

Thank-you very much for sharing your experience and it's greatly appreciated.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
21 Oct 2010  #2
You don't have a hope in getting a residence permit - you're over the 90/180 rule and they won't issue a residence permit to you if you're already illegal. In fact, it's more likely that they'll inform the Straz Graniczna to get you deported.

What the individual officer said in the airport means nothing - the law, as it stands, is that you have spent more than 90 days out of 180 in Schengen and are now currently illegal. The fact that you got a new stamp means nothing - you're still illegal, irrespective of what the stamps in the passport say. Unlike the UK and Ukraine for instance - Schengen stamps are not a right of residence, but rather for informational purposes only.

The best advice is to leave for 6 months, then come back and legalise yourself properly.
Harry
21 Oct 2010  #3
The best advice is to leave for 6 months, then come back and legalise yourself properly.

An alternative would be to submit an application for residency and then a couple of days later leave the Schengen zone and stay out for six months. That then greatly reduces the risk of problems on the way out (which do sometimes happen) leading to a ban on entering the Schengen zone. Just remember to write to the foreigners office before leaving and tell them that you wish to withdraw your application for residency.
OP MojeKochanie
22 Oct 2010  #4
Harry, what kind of residence permit are you refering to? Thanks.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
22 Oct 2010  #5
An alternative would be to submit an application for residency and then a couple of days later leave the Schengen zone and stay out for six months. That then greatly reduces the risk of problems on the way out (which do sometimes happen) leading to a ban on entering the Schengen zone. Just remember to write to the foreigners office before leaving and tell them that you wish to withdraw your application for residency.

That's not a bad idea - either way, getting out and staying out for a while is the only option.

I really can't figure out why Americans have such problems with understanding the 90/180 rule.

To the OP : if you want to get a residence permit, get out, stay out for 6 months (you can go to the UK for 6 months legally, or perhaps 3 months in Croatia and 3 months in Serbia) and then come back. You can't legalise yourself now - you're already illegal in the Schengen zone.
convex 20 | 3,978
22 Oct 2010  #6
I really can't figure out why Americans have such problems with understanding the 90/180 rule.

Because if you read the post, apparently border guards don't understand it either :)

Can you extend a tourist visa? That is, apply for another 3 months like with a business visa?
Harry
22 Oct 2010  #7
Harry, what kind of residence permit are you refering to?

The Karta Pobytu.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
22 Oct 2010  #8
Will I have a problem upon exiting Poland? (American visited Poland through Germany)

Just go back out over Germany. Routine boarder control might be your only problem but the chance they will stop you is pretty slim.
Harry
22 Oct 2010  #9
Very bad idea: German border control will stop him on the way out of Germany!
guesswho 4 | 1,289
22 Oct 2010  #10
It didn't stop us when we were going out of Poland. Unless something has changed since 2007, I wouldn't worry about it.
convex 20 | 3,978
22 Oct 2010  #11
They pull me over everytime I drive across. They seem to pull over all the buses too. Don't know if they check the trains at all anymore.

Only safe bet, pay someone to fly you over the border from an uncontrolled field in Poland to an uncontrolled field in Germany *cough* *cough*. The skies in Schengen are the only borders that really are open...
guesswho 4 | 1,289
22 Oct 2010  #12
They pull me over everytime I drive across.

Then it must have changed since then because we were never stopped.
Harry
22 Oct 2010  #13
It didn't stop us when we were going out of Poland.

That's because you were travelling inside the Schengen zone.

Unless something has changed since 2007, I wouldn't worry about it.

Since then Poland has joined the Schengen zone.

Only safe bet, pay someone to fly you over the border from an uncontrolled field in Poland to an uncontrolled field in Germany

Makes no difference at all: the OP would still get nailed when he left Germany because he has overstayed in the Schengen zone!
guesswho 4 | 1,289
22 Oct 2010  #14
That's because you were travelling inside the Schengen zone.

yeah, that's right.

Makes no difference at all: the OP would still get nailed when he left Germany because he has overstayed in the Schengen zone!

When we entered Poland from Germany, no one made any remarks in our passports so in our case it wouldn't happen anyway but it will be a problem for people who fly into Poland for sure.
Bolle 1 | 147
22 Oct 2010  #15
Don't know if they check the trains at all anymore.

Maybe random checks, but i often take the train from PL to D and have never had passport checks.
OP MojeKochanie
23 Oct 2010  #16
Folks, upon exiting German airport, don't you think it would be the same problem because passport will be checked anyways?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
23 Oct 2010  #17
Maybe random checks, but i often take the train from PL to D and have never had passport checks.

The Polish tend to check in terminal stations like Zgorzelec, Kostrzyn and Szczecin - but they tend to leave true international trains alone like the Berlin-Warszawa-Express. I saw some Chinese people pulled in Szczecin - but they were ignoring anyone with a white face.

Folks, upon exiting German airport, don't you think it would be the same problem because passport will be checked anyways?

I think every day that you bury your head in the sand about the issue makes it more likely that you'll be banned upon leaving. Anyway, yes, you'll have even more problems leaving Germany - they check every passport thoroughly.

Can you extend a tourist visa? That is, apply for another 3 months like with a business visa?

Nup, the only option is to apply for residency - but if you're already over the 90 day limit, that option ceases to be available too. As far as I'm aware, there's no way of legalising yourself if you're already illegal.
Threegigs - | 21
23 Oct 2010  #18
Because if you read the post, apparently border guards don't understand it either :)

Actually, the border guard understood it quite well.
First of all, it's 90 days out of 6 months, not 90 out of 180 days.
Secondly, you're also technically allowed an additional 5 days leeway because of transits. Otherwise you might not be able to change planes if you happened to have a connecting flight via Schengen. The guard most likely allowed him back in on the basis of those 5 leeway transit days, perhaps assuming he had a flight out of Poland.
inkrakow
24 Oct 2010  #19
Because if you read the post, apparently border guards don't understand it either :)

It boils down to whether you are willing to take the chance that you meet the one border guard who does understand it?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
24 Oct 2010  #20
Or worse, if you're willing to spend your life worried sick that you could be caught and asked to leave within a week at any time, along with receiving a one year Schengen ban.

.....

Still looking for the magic answer that as an illegal immigrant, you'll be welcomed with open arms and handed a residence permit?

You might or might not have problems. Harry gave you a sensible piece of advice.

If you want to get out of Schengen without much trouble, then the France-UK border crossing is never staffed with Schengen exit controls.


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