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Poland from a Persian Tourist's Perspective


OP DariusTraveller 1 | 59
25 Mar 2010 #241
The source is Turkish quoting Palestinians, so I'm skeptical about the truth of the report. Is there any corroboration of the report from any other source?

Grunwald posted those three links as the first links he ran into, Yes the source might be biased but the accusations might be true. We're not here to post links for you guys, the links was just to show that it doesn't take more than 3 seconds to find stories that might or might not hold some truth to them. There are literally hundreds of other sites more credible than that Turkish site that reports on similar cases. I think you should check them out. These cases either are either never filed by women and when they are they're rarely get investigated. The larger News networks don't really bother with small stories like this on Palestinians. I mean an Israeli soldier ran over a female US peace protester with a bulldozer in Gaza and it was hardly reported on in any credible western media. So why should they report on a worthless person to them that's been raped?

I don't think getting your news from inside Israel has any credibility to it at all. Who own those Networks and are they biased in their articles? Like when republicans get their news from Fox or when Brits get their news from networks owned by Murdoch.. That's not real journalism, that's just pure propaganda.

As I said there are countless womens rights organisations who have reported on women who have been raped or abused who are afraid to file an official report in fear of worse abuse next time they run into that soldier. This doesn't just apply to women but also men who fear reporting someone for physically abusing them as they might get slapped harder or killed next time. As I said earlier whatever you say I don't believe that a 17-year old IDF soldier can be neutral when facing down a Palestinian man or woman and I think it's wrong that you believe them to be morally superior in any way, shape, or form.

The left wing press lives to expose scandals like this and would have put it on the front page of every newspaper, and yet I've never heard anything about it. So I doubt that it's true.

The left-wing inside Israel might be reporting heavily on these kind of incidents from inside Israel but that doesn't really matter does it...? That doesn't change the attitude of the general public as most Israelis are undoubtedly very nationalistic and willing to go to great lengths to preserve their homeland and the left-wing certainly isn't changing anything about the violent administration running things over there. I mean these people are willing to send teenagers to prison multiple times just for refusing to serve in the IDF...How is that right? And how can you presume that youngsters who've been taught military hierarchy and violence from birth isn't going to resort to sexual violence? Your country is still highly militaristic and that's not something a small left-wing can change in any way. The signs and the whispers are pointing to the fact that these things do happen and they're being reported on by someone, somewhere in the world.
yehudi 1 | 432
26 Mar 2010 #242
as most Israelis are undoubtedly very nationalistic and willing to go to great lengths to preserve their homeland

Most Israelis are patriotic but not fanatical about it. I don't know any Israelis who think supporting rapists will help preserve the homeland. Is that the way people think in Iran?
OP DariusTraveller 1 | 59
26 Mar 2010 #243
I don't represent other Iranians, and Israel isn't spoken about in Iran neither at home or in schools, people don't care about Israel/Palestine that much. But I'm pretty sure that's the way people think everywhere in the world. I'm not saying Israelis support rape but it seems that way when the people and the government choose to turn a blind eye to what might be going on. And the real issue isn't just rape, it's the subtle abuse of Palestinians during everyday life. When a "patriotic" teenage IDF soldier can gun down several men and get away with it without an investigation then the course of justice is seriously messed up and the margin of error leaves a lot of room for mistakes. It's not rocket science and everyone knows what Israel is doing, the only difference between you guys and the Palestinians is that you people actually have a choice and the power to change the game but when you collectively decide to look away well then that makes you accomplices to a crime.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Mar 2010 #244
When is the Goldstone Report going to be seriously treated? Obama is being shown to be a coward by allowing flagrant violations of international law to go unpunished. He can expect more terrorist attacks if he doesn't take a stand. That much seems to be clear.
OP DariusTraveller 1 | 59
26 Mar 2010 #245
Don't expect any U.S politician to speak out against Israel, If they do the Pro Israeli AIPAC lobby will destroy them politically. They have so much power that it's unbelievable. Israel basically humiliated and slapped Joe Biden across the face a few weeks ago and they made sure that everyone in the international community knew that U.S politicians, even the Vice President is their b*itch and that they own their asses. That's why you often hear politicians swear unconditional support and allegiance to Israel, they basically stumble over each other just to kiss netanyahus backside and if they don't they'll suffer the consequences.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Mar 2010 #246
I disagree with you here, Darius. Biden is pro-Israel, much more so than Obama. He didn't toe the international law line with the Israelis. He even agrees with the settlements, check it. Biden is almost as hardline as Netanyahu.
OP DariusTraveller 1 | 59
26 Mar 2010 #247
Well yes of course he claims to be a friend of Israel. You can't be a U.S politician if you're not. I know that he has a Pro Israel record just like every other high status politician. But that shouldn't overshadow the fact that he was in Israel to talk support and peace. Israel then chose to slap him in the face by unveiling plans for new settlements while he was there which he condemned so I'm not sure where you read that he's pro settlement? This was done to send a message to the world and Biden was clearly undermined and frustrated by being publicly humiliated. I'm not really into U.S politics that much as they're all very Pro-Israel to some degree but if any of them even tries to move an inch out of the friend-of-Israel zone they will get punished by the Zionist lobby. I don't believe Biden is as hardline as the far-right in Israel but It's clear that he's playing the game that Israel is controlling. If U.S politicians refuse to play the game the Pro-Israel lobby will focus on them and end their political career faster then they can blink.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Mar 2010 #248
He wasn't there to discuss peace at all and we both know that. George Mitchell neither. None of them are there to discuss peace but more to get some free hospitality and money in their pockets. He is pro-settlements, I'll try and find you a source for that.

AIPAC will not accept the curbing of the ambitions of the Likud party.
OP DariusTraveller 1 | 59
26 Mar 2010 #249
well whether or not he was there to talk peace or get his pockets filled is insignificant. Point is that they showed the world that they own him even as a VP and every other U.S politician. If he was that pro-Israel and pro settlement he wouldn't have condemned it and disrespected Netanyahu by showing up 2 hours late for dinner. Somehow I can't imagine them grooming him after pulling stunts like that. I might be wrong but it seems like Biden tried to rebel a little and ended up getting slapped and humiliated.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Mar 2010 #250
Everybody knew that anyway. Ariel Sharon often commented on it. Biden wouldn't have been so stupid, seriously. He knows the score and was just there for diplomatic niceties. It's all for news, Darius. Netanyahu wasn't treated that well either but AIPAC will always cement them together. You are not gonna see the US administration waving a Hamas flag anytime soon.
yehudi 1 | 432
6 Apr 2010 #251
I just came across an interesting article that should put an end to the nonsense about Israelis raping palestinian women, whether in prison or elsewhere:

jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=172472

The key sentence is this statement by female prisoners:
"Those who think that a Palestinian female prisoner is raped when she's arrested are living in an illusion and are mistaken," the female prisoners said. "There has never been such a case. Nor have we heard of a Palestinian family that killed their daughter after her release."
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Apr 2010 #252
Yehudi, look at your source, LOL. Hardly the most objective, now is it? Check the word 'denial' up in the dictionary. I'm not saying that it happens or doesn't happen, I just take issue with your 'convenient' sources.
yehudi 1 | 432
6 Apr 2010 #253
The source is the palestinian prisoners themselves. I see you don't believe that the Jerusalem Post is capable of writing a factual news story and must have made up the quote. So here's the story from the site of the Palestinian news agency Maan:
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Apr 2010 #254
I didn't mention their capability, yehudi. I was merely making the point that there is inherent bias, or potentially could be. Those prisoners could have been coerced or paid off, I'm not saying that they were but let's not be naive here. Do you believe in the testimony of Israeli IDF soldiers, yehudi?
convex 20 | 3,978
6 Apr 2010 #255
Here we are, good way to frame up the conflict

These guys would be celebrated as resisting the occupation had they been Palestinian.

Not hidden, not covered up, but celebrated.

That's the difference that I see. In the end, you've still got corpses all over the place.
rychlik 41 | 373
6 Apr 2010 #256
Interesting perspective. Well just so you know I am a young Polish guy living in Toronto. Hate it here. Too many foreigners. I would hate it if Warsaw turned into this. I don't think it will. France and England had most of the colonies back in the day and many countries have adopted their languages. Therefore most of the people from those former colonies will be more attracted to the lands of their former masters because they know their languages :)

Polish is a hard language and as well Poland does not owe anything to p'iss poor countries that have interests in Poland. By the way how would Polish people be treated in Persia or anywhere in that part of the world? Anyways, the more visible minorities in Poland the more racism you'll see. It's human nature.

I once knew a Paki who studied in Germany for a couple of years. I told him I was Polish and he did not know where Poland was on the map. How's that for ignorance? Stupid Paki I say :)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
6 Apr 2010 #257
I told him I was Polish and he did not know where Poland was on the map. How's that for ignorance?

You sound as ignorant as he was.
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
6 Apr 2010 #258
I skip you long posts, because I just need to read the first sentence, no, just see your name and I already know what it is going to be about.

Then how will you ever know if anyone else has a point or actually can make you see a thing from a different viewpoint? This is in my opinion not really being to open-minded, and, if I can say so, very leftist of you. You don't want to hear any arguments or read anything, just dismiss people, because of who they are or what the first sentence in their post says? I would have missed a lot of god books, articles and posts here on PF, if I thought like that. How will you ever know all the sides of a story? How will you ever progress in your intellectuality if all you see is what you want to see? Why are you scared to read other peoples views? I personally have both the bible and the koran in my book-collection, even though I am not christian or muslim. I have communist and national socialist litterature, even though I don't subscribe to either policy. I read both israeli and arab authors. I watch movies meant for white as well as black audiences. This makes me more qualified to understand and debate on all these topics.

I already said that that kind of approach is a way of compensating for something in my opinion, possibly a hardships faced by immigration of the parents/children at the early period. The reason I say it is because I have seen it a sufficient number of times.

Now who's generalizing....you're even more close-minded than you think I am! You are using the same arguments I am, but attacking me for it! "I've seen it sufficient number of times" aswell...so therefore it must be true. How can you attack me for using the same argument, just on other aspects of life? Holier than thou....

Why would I bother with more discussion if there is nothing overlapping in my and your views. I like to conserve my energy.

Then why have you registered to a debate forum? To comment small one-liners, where you see fit and just be annoying to other people who actually try to have some kind of contructive interaction? I have to tell you, every time I read comments and responses on pages like this, from one-liners like you, it just bugs me. Why do you even bother, to register, to log in, to actually sit down and type; "You're ignorant". Why don't you just read the posts and let it be, if you don't have any constructive to come with IN A DEBATE FORUM.

Do you think that if one does a research proving that actually hating any other nationality is grounded in reality it will make it less racist or less hateful? In my opinion it will not.

I don't hate anyone. I judge people(s) on their character and their actions. Word like "hate", and "racist", are just scare-words in which one can stifle and destroy debates. You seem to like them, even though you say you have read a lot, it doesn't shine through in your posts here. What kind of research have you been doing for the last 4 years, if I may ask? Since you put it out there. Would you use the same argument you used on the guy from Toronto for being hateful, on immigrants who say the same? That the reason they are not performing well in Canada is because of issues that stems from their feeling of inadequacy, their religious and family background? Or is that "racist"? Many of them also hate Canada and Norway, even though they live there. What's the difference between them and the white guy from Toronto, and why do you leap to the immigrants defence so fast, and condemn him for saying the same things?

Dariusz

p.s. Thanks for the long reply!! It actually intrigued me to hear what you had to say.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
6 Apr 2010 #259
p.s. Thanks for the long reply!! It actually intrigued me to hear what you had to say.

and we are done at that:). I am sure some of your curiosity was satisfied for now. I pick my battles.
grubas 12 | 1,391
7 Apr 2010 #260
I once knew a Paki who studied in Germany for a couple of years. I told him I was Polish and he did not know where Poland was on the map. How's that for ignorance? Stupid Paki I say :)

You mean Pakistani right?As for him not knowing where Poland is ,this is actually good thing.I hope nobody in Pakistan and few other countries knows where PL is or that it even exists.
amanda1325
13 May 2010 #261
Hi, I'm courious what Iranians think about Poles?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 May 2010 #262
Curious til the point sth negative is said, no doubt! ;)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
13 May 2010 #263
I'm actually curious about Iranian tourists.

>^..^<

M-G (do they exist?)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 May 2010 #264
I certainly haven't met any on my travels. That's strange because Ahmedinejad is said to have driven many out of the country.
George8600 10 | 637
22 May 2010 #265
That's strange because Ahmedinejad is said to have driven many out of the country.

The same man who is said to have driven out all homosexuals and holocaust recognizers. @_@
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 May 2010 #266
Well, he has his ways. He is not the fairest of men within his own domain but I like what he says in interviews. He is sly like Putin but the West can't really pick him up on his words. He is against weapons but the West makes him out to be some sort of demon.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
22 May 2010 #267
Yeah :/
Do you think it's true that he is kind of a puppet? Ive heard the priests use him for flashing out and taking the blame kind of.

The topic: Poland from a Persian Tourist's Perspective
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 May 2010 #268
I don't imagine there are many Persian tourists here who can comment on the thread, Mods. Ahmedinejad is not so far off topic.
pawian 161 | 9,971
12 Oct 2019 #269
Persian perspective?

Two years ago I saw an article in feminine press about a young Iranian woman, a political refugee, who settled in Poland in 2012 and today concludes: Poland is a cold country inhabited by cold people. I didn`t read it. What did she mean? Are Poles as cold as Scandinavians?

wysokieobcasy.pl/wysokie-obcasy/51,96856,17191161.html?i=0





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