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Polish or British passport (child traveling to Poland)


hyd1
14 Oct 2012 #1
My Child was born in the UK, I am English. The Father is Polish. Should I get a British or Polish Passport. The child will only be visiting Poland to go on holiday and will never live there? Thankyou
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
14 Oct 2012 #2
An EU passport is an EU passport at this stage.

Wherever you choose to bring him up, get him a passport of that country.

Then he can vote etc when he grows up.

Congrats on the nipper.
OP hyd1
14 Oct 2012 #3
I am british.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
14 Oct 2012 #4
I think you can avail of the two.

Polish and British.

I may be mistaken, so dont take my word for gospel.

There are a load of Brits on these boards, so they should be able to clear it up.
Ant63 13 | 410
14 Oct 2012 #5
Be warned that until Poland wakes up and realizes it's 2012 and stands by treaties it has signed, namely The Hague Convention for Abducted and Illegally Retained Children and Brussels II, it would be foolish to consider a Polish passport. A British passport won't help massively, if the proverbial hits the fan, but you will have a better chance.

Understand you are an alien and the child would be considered Polish even if it has not put a foot on Polish soil. If you understand this, you will see the danger you could put yourself and your child in.

The Polish courts have a very poor record too date.

There are organizations you should consider contacting before you make what could be the worst decision of your child's life.
reunite.org for one. Remember "Never say Never" It could happen to you.
OP hyd1
14 Oct 2012 #6
Thankyou Ant, that is what scares me in case polish father decided to take my child to Poland and never return him. Can my partner get a Polish passport with out my permission?
Ant63 13 | 410
15 Oct 2012 #7
You don't need a passport believe it or not. A birth certificate is enough to travel.

Once the child is in Poland you will then have a big problem. If you are lucky you will get to court after about two months and if you are one of the few that wins like my partner, there is still no guarantee the child will be returned. The process will take approx 6 months. If you want to make your position as safe as possible speak to Reunite or look up Dorota Beange.

Poland is dangerous. We are still fighting two and a half years later and our position is still unsure. It took six and a half months to get my partners daughter back.

If you further information, PM me, I'm happy to provide information so you can protect your child.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
15 Oct 2012 #8
Can my partner get a Polish passport with out my permission?

yes
db1874 7 | 227
15 Oct 2012 #9
A British passport for an infant is valid for 5 years, a Polish one only one year so far better to get a British one. Also it's far easier to travel the world on a British passport than a Polish one (visa requirements).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Oct 2012 #10
Not necessarily - visas are cheaper for Belarus and Russia with a Polish one than a British one.
oxon 4 | 164
15 Oct 2012 #11
I think a Polish Passport would be better for the child. When he/she is old enough to claim benefits, the ultra left, swivel eyed loonies will bend over backwards to make sure he/she receives all the luxuries denied to indigenous Brits.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
15 Oct 2012 #12
shut the f.uck up the kid was born here
sa11y 5 | 331
15 Oct 2012 #13
Can my partner get a Polish passport with out my permission

No, both parents have to sign the application. Edit - unless one of the parents loses their rights.

visas are cheaper for Belarus and Russia with a Polish one than a British one

Not much of an advantage, considering that Brits can travel to many countries without visas altogether...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
15 Oct 2012 #14
No, both parents have to sign the application.

are u sure about that sally? while my info may well be out of date, not too long ago a Polish passport had to be applied for by the father, and only him.
db1874 7 | 227
15 Oct 2012 #15
are u sure about that sally?

I think Sally is correct, it required the mother and father's signature when I applied for a child's one last year.
sa11y 5 | 331
15 Oct 2012 #16
while my info may well be out of date, not too long ago a Polish passport had to be applied for by the father, and only him

Either mother or father can apply. I applied for my son's passport recently (father is British) so it's not only father that can apply. The father had to sign papers that he agrees to the child having Polish passport, it worked the same as with British passport, where I had to sign the form of consent.
Ant63 13 | 410
15 Oct 2012 #17
Not necessarily - visas are cheaper for Belarus and Russia with a Polish one than a British one.

And exactly what use is that to a young child. As you well know this child can pick up a Polish passport at any time in the future.

shut the f.uck up the kid was born here

It is not about politics, it is not about parents, it is about children's welfare.

Poland's current legal system regarding child welfare and parental responsibility could at best be described a shambles at worst based on Nazi ideology. Strong words I know but with some basis in fact.

This is a simple but good example of one thing that is wrong.

A couple seperate.
Children live with mum for a period of time.
Dad moves 300km away.
A while later he takes the children out for the day but does not return.
A week later they are found at Dads new address (note the Police will not be interested in this situation at all)
Mum has little or no contact with children.

Now I would like to believe that a reasonable human being would see there is a problem here. The law in most countries recognizes this as parental abduction and a recognizes that this situation is detrimental to a child's welfare amongst other things.

Not Poland. Oh no, you can do what you want if you have parental responsibility. It is not possible in Polish law to abduct your own child. This means you have no recourse to the law or police so in actual fact there appears to be little or no provision for child protection from a parent who has no thought for his/her child's welfare.

Throw into this scenario that this is an International relationship or a Polish family based in another country and it takes on a whole new context. Political and religious bias then take the driving seat. Lets take for example a Polish family that has lived in the UK for 5 years. They have a nine year old child that has been in school in the UK for five years. Dads a heavy drinker, knocks mum about and Mum discovers she doesn't have to put up with this in the UK , so asks him to leave. A week later Dad collects the child from school and returns to Poland with the child. This is a typical example by the way. What are the consequences for the child? Think about it from the child's point of view. It's not really ideal, its a disaster. Poland will of course think differently. The father has done nothing wrong and this is a Polish child, with Polish culture and therefore should be in Poland at all cost to the child's rights and welfare. Of course in the UK the father has become an International Child Abductor and would be considered a danger to the child until such time he can prove otherwise. In Poland the courts will support him, no matter what his previous behavior has been. Not only this, but because the Court Psychologists are in the direct pay of the courts, in fact each judge has a special relationship with those they employ, they cannot provide reports to court based on credible information they have, they must report what the court wants so any report will be pure fantasy. Why Poland has such a high reliance on psychologists, I find ridiculous. What the physco says is taken a fact when in truth it an opinion based on little or no knowledge of the real situation, but the lies placed in court. Of course we use them here but a judge is less likely to take what is written as trustworthy information. We can now see the Polish mother and the Polish child are in a bad position. Is this right? Of course not which is why we have the hague convention. Problem is, that although Poland has signed it's politics and religious convictions prevent it from applying law.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
15 Oct 2012 #18
surely this situation has to change......it's the EU fgs
Ant63 13 | 410
15 Oct 2012 #19
Unfortunately until they reform there laws there will be no change. They were supposed to do this when they signed the treaty.

I want my partner to go public on her case as it really is disgusting how the courts have treated the children and what risks the court is prepared to take with the children's lives. Her case is perfect for Polish people to understand what is wrong with their system and why the Hague and Brussels II are good treaties. So far in the Polish press, these treaties have been demonised. Unfortunately, it is far too dangerous for her to do it at the moment. When it is over then I hope she will, because I don't want to hear another parent crying on the phone, begging for help and telling me they have not seen or heard of their child for six months. It's heart breaking and completely unnecessary.

The first change that must be brought in is separation of Divorce and Custody. Custody must be first and based on fact, not who presents the better lies to court. If a child resides in another country or has resided in another country for a period of time then the childs welfare situation should be reviewed in the country in which they are resident not in Poland. It's common sen sense. Children's rights as determined by the Rights of a Child" should be primary, not whose fault the divorce was. Religious convictions must also be removed from the process.

Damn there is a lot that needs reviewing. There is an organization in Poland that is beginning to understand that there are different and better systems outside Poland. I have offered them my support.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 492
15 Oct 2012 #20
Get him a British passport.
If his only connection with Poland will be father and holidays, he will be practically British.
OP hyd1
15 Oct 2012 #21
Thank you Ant, You talk a lot of sense. My child will defo not be getting a Polish passport. Sorry to hear what your partner has been through. I don't trust my partner and I would like to get some protection to prevent him from taking my child to Poland. I will PM you
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Oct 2012 #22
I would like to get some protection to prevent him from taking my child to Poland. I will PM you

Also - contact the UK Border Agency and inform them that he/she isn't to be taken out of the UK without your consent. That should stop him/her boarding flights/ferries/etc.
BinthereDunthat
15 Oct 2012 #23
I don't trustmy partner

How can you say those two things in same sentence. Why are you still with a person you cannot trust?

My question would be why wouldn't you also be on these holidays? If You are not invited, then grandma can just very well come to your home turf to see the angel. You may as well set that boundry now. If you are breadwinner then holiday can wait for your time off.

and don't count on Hague protection... I had to fight a non jurisdictional custody battle INSIDE the U.S. TWICE.
and both time the abductor went unpunished because he dropped case for dismisal. You can't act on dismissed case.
The first time he literally abducted our son.
If you don't trust him THAT much , be aware he can make a custody case FIRST. And if he is the breadwinnner he will afford better legal and can make himself the better choice for child in court's view, unless UK favors mothers (which from what I have seen here on PF..is like US. All about fathers having "rights" above and beyond anything they may have earned as parent) or disfavors the foreign parent.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
15 Oct 2012 #24
yes make sure you go on any 'holidays' to Poland .....
Ant63 13 | 410
15 Oct 2012 #25
Also - contact the UK Border Agency and inform them that he/she isn't to be taken out of the UK without your consent.

To get them to respond properly you would need a court order. A court order can be obtained via a county court same day. There is still a high chance of getting out via ferry/coach. This is the preferred method.

If you have any doubts, first get a residence order, stating that the child should not be removed from the jurisdiction of the UK and Wales (same law) without your permission. If you perceive there is a real threat, you can obtain these same day but you may need to travel. The residence order can be for both of you but have prohibitive steps included. This is a good preventative measure but it is usually completely ignored by Polish courts if the child arrives there. You would be told that it is just a piece of paper. Funny thing so are the Polish orders which usually have little basis in law. This also makes a Hague case water tight but is no guarantee the child would be returned to the UK. Unfortunately most are not and left behind parent can end up paying £1000+ in child maintenance just to rub salt into the open wounds.

Bintheredunthat's post does not apply outside the US although it does matter who starts the divorce in Poland. English/Welsh law is generally well balanced. Our legal system has its faults but is generally considered one of the best in the world. Poland is known as "The poor man of Europe" in legal circles.

If it ever got to the point that you divorce in Poland because he started a divorce there( you have no argument against that), then your opening statement should begin with. "I am unable to discuss anything relating to our child in a Polish court because jurisdiction lies with the English and Welsh courts" and you must stick to it whatever a Polish solicitor says. Do not be persuaded otherwise, Polish solicitors have a very limited understanding of International Law if any at all. Doing the opposite can transfer jurisdiction to Poland.
scotty75
16 Oct 2012 #26
You can have both passports for the child, I have two boys that hold both nationalities. I am British my wife polish and we are resident in the Netherlands. British passport peace of pee to get, polish requires a bit more messing about like having to pick it up in person from consulate. As dual nationals they have to cross the Polish border with a Polish passport.

should read piece.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Oct 2012 #27
As dual nationals they have to cross the Polish border with a Polish passport.

Not quite. The law states that they must identify themselves using a Polish document to the Polish authorities - which means in practice that you only need produce a Polish document upon demand. To cross the border, you can carry whatever passport you want - it only becomes a requirement if you're stopped and asked to identify yourself.

In practice, no-one is going to bother children for not having a Polish document, particularly as there's no obligation for them to actually have any form of ID except when crossing the border.
scotty75
17 Oct 2012 #28
The problem is Straz Granica is a polish authority, at least they think they are. It was clearly stated to us as they are Polish citizens they must enter and exit Poland carrying a polish passport. The Poles make up the rules as they go along so what the law states is irrelavent to the person in authority, they'll always know better or imagine something. I got married in Poland, and as a UK citizen had to go to the British consulate and write a declaration that I'm not married and never have been. After the documents had been approved by the ministry of interior and submitted to the Local town hall (Urzad Miasto) the day before the marriage they called me to tell me they can't let me get married because I can't declare myself not married, it has to come from "jakis Urzadu"which one they could'nt tell me. I quick call to the British Consulate and sprawa zaladwiona. Polskie Mongolskie Przepisy at it's very best.
MoOli 9 | 480
17 Oct 2012 #29
Cant he/she take the child in car to Poland?
scotty75
17 Oct 2012 #30
Delphiandrome said
"To cross the border, you can carry whatever passport you want - it only becomes a requirement if you're stopped and asked to identify yourself."

What kind of contradiction is that? exactly what I said you must enter and exit poland with the polish passport.


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