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Białowieża National Park in Poland


dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #361
cut the trees! more cash now!.

Yep make hay today and future generations can deal with the fallout, not as if many of the trees were diseased I stopped and checked, there are plenty of accusations of money making and back-handers, how true don't know, but if someone was thinking in investing in agro tourism in Poland today I would say forget it don't waste your money.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,403
28 Jan 2018 #362
I have noticed that many thousands of trees alongside the country roads are being cut down, the excuse is the roads have been reclassified??

That's very sad, indeed. There should be some solid reason or excuse, as you say, for that. Otherwise, it is purely barbaric. Or has the former environment minister Jan Szyszko been appointed to the post of the governer of the Niederschlesien province?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #363
Niederschlesien province

Sadly this place is going downhill, not long before its a moonscape with tree stumps as craters, they dont even grind out the old stumps for gods sake
mafketis 35 | 11,197
28 Jan 2018 #364
Elect a government that appoints someone like Szyszko (who's never seen a tree he didn't want to cut down and sell) and that's the result.

Did lower Silesia vote for PiS? Is the loss of environment worth it?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
28 Jan 2018 #365
Szyszko (who's never seen a tree he didn't want to cut down and sell) and that's the result.

Ever had a look at his financial statements?

They make curious reading for those familiar with Polish university salaries...
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #366
Did lower Silesia vote for PiS? Is the loss of environment worth it?

Bit of a mixed bag here when it comes to politics, seems to be an attitude of everyone for him/her self.
Ironside 51 | 11,337
28 Jan 2018 #367
Welcome to the problem caused by the new laws on cutting trees.

BS that kind of culling had been there for decades. If you looking for those responsible look no further than you local 'gmina' (borough?).

So

Which party is in charge in your local 'gmina' Dolno?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #368
Not PIS, I think you are right in saying look no further than you local 'gmina' , all sorts of accusations of relatives owning saw mills etc.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
28 Jan 2018 #369
its no good constantly trying to bend or adapt the rules to suit your needs

Then tell the lefties to stop constantly bending or adapting the rules to suit their political needs...

Let the EU bring it - they've made all these threats - where's the 100k a day fine? Where's the 2 bil fine for not taking in migrants? Yet its been years and NO fine plus their article 7 vote is doomed.

There were no major issues between EU and PL or any of the other country's also rebelling till the EU started pushing all these far left diktates and doing everything to take away independent nation state's sovereignty away and that's clear as day. EU and their embrace of this far left push, allowing millions of migrants onto European soil who are ruining the society and interference in local political affairs is the reason why the far right has spread all over Europe. Average Europeans are sick of it - especially in the Eastern parts as they haven't been brainwashed like in France, Germany, etc. and even then Le Pen came close to beating Macron. France is doomed anyway though - nonstop state of emergency alone proves that. If the future of the EU is to be like Germany or France I truly do believe my people, the Poles who are majority conservative and experts at navigating both good and bad economic times, will reject the EU eventually if they do not stop pushing a specific far left agenda and interfering in certain sovereign affairs. Perhaps the forest, as a nature site, is one of those - that's up to them to work out and the citizens. If someone wants to log a few trees and has approval by that country's government that's up to them and the agencies overseeing it. Clearly this isn't a priority as it's only brought up on the side and it's been quite a while since they threatened any fines. Seems like putting migrants we don't wnt in our country is more important than the perceived destruction of a protected site.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
28 Jan 2018 #370
If someone wants to log a few trees and has approval by that country's government that's up to them

What if someone wants to log a few trees in an area enjoyed by all Polish citizens, just for personal gain?

You're happy with Poland losing for the sake of one person's profit?
Dougpol1 32 | 2,673
28 Jan 2018 #371
A chap owned half a hillside near Wadowice. He was always bragging how much such and such trees were worth, and complaining bitterly how much the fine would be if he as much as cut one of them down.

If we revolved in the same circle today he would say it was pay-back time unfortunately, all the while waving his wad in my face. That hill side is probably selectively bare today. Isn't the market flooded? This does not compute.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #372
while waving his wad in my face.

Seems to be a polish thing, bit like plasterers in the eighty's.
Braveheart16 18 | 286
28 Jan 2018 #373
Dirk diggler......If someone wants to log a few trees and has approval by that country's government that's up to them and the agencies overseeing it....

Not sure who that 'someone' is.....one person or many? You seem to believe that the illegal logging of B. Forest isn't a priority, as the issue is only occasionally raised and that it has been 'quite a while since they threatened any fines'.....I think you will find that there are people out there who do care about their environment and perhaps those in power are making use of the inability of the public to effectively complain about the illegal logging in the B. Forest.....don't worry too much but I think that the generosity of the EU will soon run out and Poland will be punished....in any event Poland is losing credibility as a country who were progressing well to one which is sinking in its own prima donna attitude....sad but that's the way it is....I just hope people will realise the damage which is being caused and try to change things for the better....
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #374
generosity of the EU will soon run out

When you say EU you mean Germany , what an outcry if Poland chopped six million trees.
mafketis 35 | 11,197
28 Jan 2018 #375
You seem to believe that the illegal logging of B. Forest isn't a priority

he doesn't live in poland and probably never will (I'll believe it when it happens) what does he care?

Poland is losing credibility as a country

yep. there's only so much good will you can throw away before it starts hurting. poland may escape sanctions but it won't have any allies in Europe if things get rough (Orban will dump Poland the second it becomes necessary for him).
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #376
but it won't have any allies in Europe if things get rough

Probably ending up feeding poor brits post Brexit, some money there me thinks
Ironside 51 | 11,337
28 Jan 2018 #377
what does he care?

Well German adm. done their upmost to destroy B forest both times wwi and wwii. Are you telling me they care this time?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,072
28 Jan 2018 #378
German adm. done their upmost to destroy

Not to mention turning Warsaw into dust, they just don't get why poles don't want to listen to their righteous German shite, but there again we don't want to listen to Russian Shite, rest of Europe carries some respect, but sadly the EU is not a democratic body and is dominated by the German sphere of influence.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #379
of B. Forest isn't a priority, as the issue is only occasionally raised and that it has been 'quite a while since they threatened any fines'.....

I'm not the only one - there's numerous Germans in the EU who keep calling for Poland to take in migrants - that's clearly, in their opinion, the biggest affront to the EU - not bialowierza

Besides, then let the EU bring the $100k a day fine already instead of talking about it on and off for over a year with ZERO action, ZERO fines, ZERO reductions to Poland's EU funds.

those in power are making use of the inability of the public to effectively complain about the illegal logging in the B. Forest.....

Unemployed hippies and tree huggers along with foreign organizations with a specific political agenda like Greepeace who PAY activists (It's $400 a week in the US, not sure how many zloty's they pay for people to protest Bialowierza logging). The funny thing is that the majority of the locals seem to have NO problem with the logging as evidenced by numerous town hall gatherings in these areas. The citizens and government have decided, EU has failed to act and issue a fine. That's the situation...

I think that the generosity of the EU will soon run out and Poland will be punished

The opposite has just recently happened. Timmermans and the frenchies recently affirmed there is no threat to Poland receiving EU funds regardless of bialowierza, the court changes, refusal to take in migrants, etc etc etc
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #380
I dont think youre a phd let alone in this topic ....

Well, I want to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, so you'll just have to take my word for it. My MSc thesis was on forest ecology, from a top 20 world ranking university, and my PhD on forest ecology & management in relation to species conservation, at another university (top 100). I've got about 20 papers published in academic journals directly on forest ecology, not including book chapters, but including papers on Bialowieza Forest. For one particular forest species and its habitat I'm in the global top 3 experts. I do research in Bialowieza every year. I've been doing this for several decades. So, how about you, care to tell us how you measure up in the field of forest science?

Putting aside measuring our johnsons for a second, tell us again why you have such a low opinion of Polish science? Because the cream of Polish science is the Polish Academy of Sciences, who are government advisers. They are in the academy because they are the top scientists in the country. And they say that logging to manage bark beetles is wrong. As has the Mammal Research Institute, which is based in the forest. As did the National Park manager, until she was sacked and replaced by a State Forestry guy (i.e. logger) and personal friend of Szyszko last year for criticising Szyszko's plan.

But don't let any of that stand in the way of your expertise and great knowledge in this area.

So, Dirk, care to tell us what is your educational and job background that gives you so much knowldge of forestry? You're a salesman, aren't you? Wouldn't be lumber, would it?
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #381
the majority of the locals seem to have NO problem with the logging as evidenced by numerous town hall gatherings in these areas.

How do you know that? State media reports, perhaps? Because when I'm there the hotels, restaurants, tour guides and bike shops are extremely unhappy with the closing of the forest, the logging and the killing of their businesses. Some locals are pro-logging, but very many are not.

with a specific political agenda like Greepeace who PAY activists

Excuse me, have you heard of SANTA? They are the pro-logging organisation based in Hajnowka. They turn up at meetings and threaten protesters, they form their own quasi-militia 'patrols' in the forest, and they mysteriously have access to areas that Szyszko closed to the public. Do you know how they are funded? They got 100,000 zl from the State Forestry Dept, i.e. from Szyszko. They even out a propaganda banner across the Hajnowka road. You'd have seen it, if you'd been anywhere near the forest in your life.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #382
Well, I want to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, so you'll just have to take my word for it

Then explain why despite dozens of posts you have NOT ONCE scientifically explained why logging is bad for bialowierza? and no, I don't take your 'word' for it because every single reason against logging is political - NOT SCIENTIFIC LIKE A FORESTRY PHD'S REASONS WOULD BE. You're a fraud, a faker, and a troll... not a PhD bro

and even if you were, we don't really care... if Polish people want to cut down 1% of the forest, or even 10% - that's up to us as it is on Polish land. I wouldn't like it if my neighbor cut his trees down for the beauty, but that's his right to do so on his property.

They turn up at meetings and threaten protesters, they form their own quasi-militia 'patrols' in the forest

You mean the Polish government gave a quasi militia over 25 grand to patrol the forest and beat up hippies so they don't mess with the logging machinery? Saweeet!!!! The one thing we definitely need more of in Poland is right wing groups, militias, home defense organizations, nationalist groups, and especially more PiS voters. The fact that the government is giving SANTA money (which I wasn't aware of before this) really put a smile on my face just now = )
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #383
Rofl media cares more now about a cow that ran away and joined some bison in bialowierza - that's how quickly the world moved on... no one cares about logging in bialowieza anymore... dead ass topic...

seriously google bialowieza and you have outlets from us to Europe to freaken japan talking about a runaway cow... nothing about logging rofl!!!

Top 5 articles on keyword 'bialowieza'
Rebellious Cow Finds Winter Home Among Polish Bison
NPR-Jan 25, 2018
The Bialowieza Forest, which spans 350,000 acres between Poland and Belarus, is home to a vulnerable population of about 600 bison. But this winter, the forest also became home to a reddish brown cow who decided to escape domestic life for some time in the wild. Poland's TVN24 news portal reports ...

Cow makes a bold bid for freedom - and joins a herd of wild bison
Mother Nature Network-Jan 27, 2018

Cow escapes farm to go and live with herd of bison
The Independent-Jan 25, 2018

Cow escapes farm to run free with wild bison in Poland
The Japan Times-Jan 25, 2018

Cow escapes pen to live wild with a herd of bison in Poland
Inhabitat-Jan 26, 2018

dead ass topic... no one cares... people are more apparently interested in a horny cow than the logging that's still going on..

Saw baby saw!!!!
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #384
Nice try at diversionary tactics. Maybe you could answer the questions about your background and expertise, like I did for you?

The interim court judegment was made last year, there is a quiet period until the next hearing next month, logging has mostly stopped for the winter, the prime minister said they will 'respect the decision', so things have gone quiet for a couple of months. The govt are wanting the media heat to go away, obviously. But it will probably spark up again next spring.

The Bialowieza episode has absolutely trashed Poland's credentials among science and green tourism, of which it was previously held in very high regard. Pretty much everyone outside of Poland can see it for exactly what it was.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #385
Maybe you could answer the questions about your background and expertise, like I did for you?

I did - go back a few pages and read.

tourism

The amount of tourists to Poland is going up year to year...

Again, no scientific claims, yet again, as to why logging is bad for bialowierza. you are unable to point out for example that logging would have a detrimental effects on specific strains of fungi, which then effects a specific animal native to bialowieza - which as a purported forestry phd or bialowieza expert would have no trouble citing reams of such scientific info

Saw baby saw
Done with this dead ass topic... appears media cares more about a horny cow in relation to bialowieza than some hippie tears over a sustainable activity conducted with the blessing of the PL government and the locals involved in the business
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #386
Then explain why despite dozens of posts you have NOT ONCE scientifically explained why logging is bad for bialowierza

Are you high? I schooled you at length in this thread on exactly why, e.g. in posts 45, 54, 108, 192, 242 and especially 310 et al. Maybe you forgot. Understandable, with all those sales quotas to make to keep that trailer over your head...
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #387
and especially 310

You did not cite any ORIGINAL scientific evidence - ZERO - you commented on a source that I USED which explained what PERCENTAGE (a tiny one at that) of bialowierza is being logged - that has NOTHING to do with the complex science involved in forestry which you claim to be an expert on... and you're asking me if i'm the one who's high you ******* moron???

You are not a phd and till you either show your credentials or are able to cite original evidence based on biology, organic chemistry, etc. no one believes you. Go ahead list the 10 most common fungi and/or bacteria in bialowieza and explain how logging impacts each one - quick do it now so everyone can believe you're really a forestry PhD. Such information would be easily known by anyone who claims to have a graduate level degree in forestry let alone one of the top 3 world experts on this particular forest... rofl

all those sales quotas to make to keep that trailer over your head...

Another reason why I know you're not a PhD as a person with such an education doesn't talk down to others in a way like that. But yes, I do have to have to make sure the bills are paid on the $1 mil home I'm typing this post from which unlike you're supposed PhD I can prove is mine = )

dead ass topic... media cares more about a horny cow than fining Poland for the crime of logging on their own land

in the mean time... you already know...

saw baby saw
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #388
Good grief, is that the best trolling and hand-waving you've got?

Ok, son, back to school: Post #101 also contains links to scientific and forestry expert organisations who outline their opposition to the logging.

Another reason why I know you're not a PhD as a person with such an education doesn't talk down to others in a way like that.

Oh, mate, I'm just trying to use language you'd understand, and because in Europe you don't have to have rich folks to fund college. You've obviously never been to a conference if you think every researcher talks like they do in front of a class of 18 year olds (which I'm guessing is the last time that you and education parted company).

So, buddy, what is it you sell?
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,846
29 Jan 2018 #389
You're wife's pu$$y - I already told you dumbass. Clean that thing off once in a while custies are complaining. Or get crafty and apply your forestry 'knowledge' - put some pine needles in that thing to freshen it up

Ok, son, back to school: Post #101 also contains links to scientific and forestry expert organisations who outline their opposition to the logging.

So more UN-ORIGINAL information that proves you're not a phd as you are UNABLE TO COME UP WITH YOUR OWN? Nothing, absolutely nothing that you wrote is original scientific information.... you're not a phd... every reason you've given against logging is politically based, not based on the science of forestry which is NOT what an expert on forests, much less a supposed top scientist and researcher on bialowieza would use as the basis of his/herarguement

Again, list the 10 most common bacteria and fungi found in bialowieza forest - forestry phds, let alone a supposed top 3 in the world expert on bialowieza would know this..

dead ass topic....

horny cow more important than logging according to multiple main stream media outlets....

saw baby saw...
Casual Observer
29 Jan 2018 #390
Only the trolls on here use the phrase 'et al

Umm, academics use it quite a lot too, it's part of everyday scientific language when writing ;)

You'd know if you ever read a science book...on forests, perhaps?

I don't know what you sell, only that you're a salesman - someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. I'm itching to know what you do sell, though. I bet you hate it. I hope you do.

Again, list the 10 most common bacteria and fungi in bialowieza forest

Actually, nobody would know that, because bacteria are so massively diverse and abundant that nobody has classified all of them let alone sampled. I'm not aware of any bacterial studies in BNP. Fungi are almost as bad, as the number of species is massive, and many of them have not even been identified to science and named. You'd know that if you know about such things - you wont even find such a list in the literature, because it's pretty impossible to compile.

Try me on trees, mammals or birds.


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