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The worst of Polish education. No wonder Polish universities are bottom of the list.


southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #121
With oral exams what matters is the level of the other examinees sitting around you in the exam.Because the professor usually examines in a row and if a student cannot answer a question he asks the same to th enext one.So if you are surrounded by good prepared students you are very likely to be asked difficult questions to which they did not manage to answer.You are not likely to seem better than them if the proffessot has decided that a certain percentage eg 40% will not pass.

On the other hand if you are surrounded in the exam room by mediocre students you are likely to be asked easy questions.You will seem much better than them.So the whole oral exam is highly subjective.Another possibility is that the proffessor asks the next student for a detail after a first one has given a general picture.In this case if you are well prepared and answer the first question regarding general picture OK it is highly likely that you will be responsible for the fail of the next examinee who will be asked to clarify about the details you mentioned.

Of course all the above are valid when the proffessor is fair and asks questions in a row.There are proffessors who refuse to examine openly in a row and examine each student one by one separately so they can pass whoever they like by calibrating the difficulty of questions.There are also dirty tricks the proffessors use for example if they want that an examinee fails for whatever reason they can easily make him fail by asking questions only on subjects they scan he is weaker at.Another option for them is to doubt his right answers as to cause him confusion or not display any positive reaction so he will change the right answer to wrong one.All this is of course known to the examinees who have countermethods which can really fek the proffessor up if used correctly.The whole point is to disarm the proffessor.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #122
With oral exams what matters is the level of the other examinees sitting around you in the exam..

Similar method is used at Medical faculty here. In general those faculties who still force the practice of oral exams obey the rule of not asking the same question twice. So the next student knows that he will surely not be asked anything that previous examinee was asked. They have piles with cards with questions, so it really is completely random unless professor takes out of the pile the easy questions. The effect of contrast, when the first student shines indeed is there, and grades tend to be calibrated according to first few examinees.
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #123
In Greece the proffessor chooses what question he will ask you you don't choose from random questions.He may very well ask the question in a manner that you will not understand what he asks he puts not concrete words deliberately to cause you confusion.Or he asks a question that has 5 possible answers but he wants the one he told during his lectures which are not written and you had to attend.Generally proffessors search for certain words.If your answer includes the words they are searching for you are OK.If you give a right answer but does not contain the words the proffessors is looking for you will be asked the same question again.

Personal preferences of proffessors matter a lot.For example other like men while others prefer women examinees.So a chick who presents in the exam with super mini high heels and stockings will likely get easy questions from the proffesor who has weakness for women or he will grade her more favorably.On the other hand we had a gay proffessor who gave high grades to good looking men and passed almost every man while women had a hard time passing and had a high failure rate.

Political connections matter also a lot in Greece.Quite a few proffessors before the exams ask their favorable party members for a list of students who are sympathizers of the same party and they treat them much more favorably in grading.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
18 Oct 2011 #124
SOUTHERN - now I know why there are literally thousands of Greek students in the UK, most of them at Essex.
Mind you we had a gay prof who used to give higher marks to lovely young boys, but that was years ago when you still had to write your name on the paper. Now it's just a number I think.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #125
Greece is known to have very harsh selection of students, so even we had few Greek students studying mostly medicine, stomatology and sports here. They, as foreign students didn't go through any selection, there was a quote, for example 20 international students and those students were usually the lousiest with attempts and success in bribery which was some sort of non written regulation for additional incomes. It was not tolerated with domestic students, because it would spread fast around and heads would have fallen. Foreigners were discrete ;)
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #126
It is what I accuse middle class offsprings for.They paid openly to get degrees all over former eastern european countries and then pressed the government to achieve recognition of diplomas of their offsprings.Of course they are afraid of any sort of exam competition.They constitute a bulk now.All these people are against any form of evaluation and drag average way too down.They are in my opinion a crucial factor for the crisis if you consider widespread incompetency in every sphere.

Their arguments are:
1.Everyone is able to study despite any inherent capabilities
2.How am I supposed to compete against memorizers?
3.How am I supposed to compete for few positions against people who take private tutors for years?Even if I do the same I will fail cause private tutoring increases exam performance to unaccessible levels and pushes up bars

4.It is unfair to have such difficult exams at early age and before entering university
5.These exams do not measure abilities needed for the job in practice
etc
And all the above arguments were supported by every party cause such students were voters also while noone in mass media or government bothered to publish or say any word about the different opinion.So now who should fit the bill?They made the sh1t they will eat it.Some things are inevitable.

And all the above arguments were supported by every party cause such students were voters also while noone bothered to publish or say any word about the different opinion.So now who should fit the bill?They made the sh1t they will eat it.Some things are inevitable.

For example you can imagine the lack of respect which I feel for the son of the proffessor who started studying in Romania after failing the national exams then got transfered to Greek university exploiting laws for diseased people thanks to his fathers' connections got the best grades and became proffessor in his father's position.Not only do I not support him but I wish his catastrophy.In this way bankruptcy is a desired thing because it has shown exactly the vulnerabilities and deficiencies of all those bragging before.They were so obnoxious.I wish as Caligula said that they all had a head to cut it off with one move.But we will exterminate them sooner or later because they gradually lose control.They no longer determine developments.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #127
Their arguments are:

Nobody here claims anything similar. University graduation demands general abilities at least above average. And everybody agrees on that. Here the cream is collected by Faculties of Philosophy, History, Literary theory, Psychology, Political sciences, sociology, Electro - engineering, Molecular biology, Mathematics,...If you were less gifted you'd apply for Medicine, Stomtology, Machine engineering ,economy, management in business, Law, other sciences or if you are close to population average in IQ then Technology, Agriculture and so on...

That is Belgrade Uni ranking. Novi Sad perhaps differs, we did research on abilities in convergent and divergent thinking and those were app. results.
polmed 1 | 216
18 Oct 2011 #128
the cream is collected by Faculties of Philosophy, History, Literary theory, Psychology, Political sciences, sociology, Electro - engineering, Molecular biology, Mathematics,.

These are faculties iyou can get in without any exams in Poland , because nobody wants to study and get a diploma from such faculties . Belgrade is very strange , because anywhere in the world medicine and law are the most coveted faculties .
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #129
Generally Europe lacks standardized pan european exams for proffessionals and nobody is willing to change the situation because certain circles interests come into play.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #130
These are faculties iyou can get in without any exams in Poland , because nobody wants to study and get a diploma from such faculties

It depicts more situation in the mid and end of 90s, now it has changed. During 50 years of liberal socialism they established that practice. Market demand shifted the student population to those promising more lucrative career. It makes sense that strictly academic studies - like philosophy, art history, literature are chosen by those who can afford themselves unemployed situation later. Those practical, professional like managements and law are now getting the attention, so there is crowd, there is harder selection. Although Law faculty doesn't select at the beginning, but during studies, having a high rate of those who give up studying.

Medicine has a problem with mass production everywhere, hence selection is not so strict as it should be, like on those Faculties that have a quote of max 60 students per year. So, some are not so bright. I visited many doctors in my life, not just in Serbia, and I can SEE them start to really think sometimes :)

I forgot, our brightest go to Faculty of dramatic arts, departments of dramaturgy and directing.
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #131
As I have multiple times analyzed it is a problem of offsprings and their parents power.For example a swedish student who cannot pass to swedisch medical school due to mediocre abilities decides to pay and gets accepted in a medical school in eastern Europe.After paying 9000 tuition fees and some bribing he presses for recognition of equaility of his diploma.In this regard one of his main arguments is that he paid.The point is that a physician in Sweden makes 5000 euro per month for example while in Romania he makes 250 euro per month.So it is normal that not so good academically students tend to choose medicine as first choice in Romania.The Swedish mediocre student exploits this difference and then wants to work in Sweden with swedish salaries.

The whole thing is not free market economy as they want to present it but constant sh1t of the middle class.It is not a social problem it is a sh1t problem.Because the question is why did Sweden not simply increase the number of medical schools if they wanted more doctors?Whey did not they increase the number of doctors in swedish schools?The answer is that they did so to keep high selectivity and secure high level of students and graduates through that.However people who can afford sth more have always a different opinion and press to another direction.In Greece the problem is multiply exaggerated and happens in every school with value in the market.Low level degrees from countries with low standards who accept everyone get equalized with degrees from local universities and world famous universities.This unhealthy idiotic pressure to equalization appearing through the pseudoprocess of egalization which in fact is creating double standards for the incompetent middle class offsprings is now a bomb in the ground of the system.

I very much enjoy seeing all these ''experts'' with the ''degrees'' they paid for getting continuously burned and humiliated during the negotiations with the Germans.The Germans punish them in unforgettable manner with sadistic pleasure.They know that they are completely hollow inside and sting the baloon they created.Since sh1t is sh1t the elites will not receive any feedback or support till they get completely burned and hung.We talk here about inevitable processes to create their destruction you just have to allow them handling in the foreground and rely on their given incompetency.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #132
Our state faculties behaved in that manner ONLY to foreign students and only on some faculties, they were out of the system totally. Mostly we saw their names on the exams lists, but not them. For domestic students none of this applied. Criteria were high and those with incompetent offsprings :) who got rich during 90s sent their lazy kids to less known schools outside. They came back with the degrees from god knows where, knowing exactly nothing. I knew some and their capacities to study and their abilities that were average with total absence of studying discipline. So, some lousy private Western schools also engaged in hyper production of experts. For those who couldn't pay the UK or US party time of their kids, they opened private Universities here where they produced various diplomas(one of them 120 PhD's in last year) which was scandalous, having in mind the number of those titles state universities give per year. Now, those less rich do that buy the degree here if they can afford to pay 5000 to 6000 euro per year get a diploma with few hours of studying.
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #133
ONLY to foreign students and only on some faculties, they were out of the system totally. Mostly we saw their names on the exams lists, but not them

Exactly.Now they form a bulk in Greece.I wrote about the situation and its possible implications some years ago in fact I had predicted a crisis in 2008 for the years to come.Now these individuals are part of the system and they are core part.It is structural problem irreversible.They have brought in a magnitude of dumb folks with degrees only the amount is astonishing.What more they feel entitled to the salares these degrees are supposed to provide.Inflation of degrees has catastrophic effects from every aspect although some may dream that a foreign investor would be glad to come to Greece since there are so many people with degrees.
polmed 1 | 216
18 Oct 2011 #134
strictly academic studies - like philosophy, art history, literature

Those were lucrative and highly regarded fields of human interests under the Greek and Roman empires , for sure, but not now or within the post war times .
Sasha 2 | 1,083
18 Oct 2011 #135
So much the worse for the country whose citizens share your point.
Natasa 1 | 580
18 Oct 2011 #136
Those were lucrative and highly regarded fields of human interests under the Greek and Roman empires

Highly regarded yes, lucrative in short periods of human history in ancient times if they were related to politics. Southern will know that part better.

Law was both highly regarded and well payed since Romans, but the profession itself faced horrible loss of good name since then. Lawyers are everywhere rich, they can be brilliant but some have serious tendency to be morally problematic. I heard forensic psychiatrists call them 'Psychopaths with the membership in Law chamber', aiming at their total lack of empathy, aggressiveness,non existing or loose moral code, greed and so on. Of course that I don't think that way and it surely wasn't said in a way that it applies to all. Decent people, like everywhere else can be found. But they mostly struggle to survive.

I truly liked studying law, but I have to admit, I had tags attached immediately after legitimizing as a law student (memorizer, materialistic, conformist). It was stigmatized profession among wider circle of my friends (students of above mentioned faculties and artistic academies).
southern 75 | 7,096
18 Oct 2011 #137
Lawyers make heavy use of fallacies.I remember I had a conversation with a distinct lawyer and he started argumentswith fallacies it was unbelievable.He used 3-4 fallacies together even if he could get straight to the point without using them.I recognized them quite easily and answered him in internet mode like it was a conversation in PF.His arguments were in level directed towards the general public no way he could convince me by them.After my objections he became quite angry and agitated.He started calling names,personal attack and did not leave me to speak anymore.

In general if you want to totally confuse a lawyer just change his perception of the audience.Just put the bar a little higher above his intellectual abilities and he will be crashed.Of course this is a refined fallacy as well.Lawyers and proffessors hate to admit that they represent the average or common sense so he will never use this argument of average and common sense.

Another easy way to beat a lawyer is to refuse to reveal the evidence for your claims until you like to present them.In this way the laawyer gets confused because he does not know if you have evidence or not and makes incorrect defense.This is the soviet method.It is common practice between lawyers to disclose their evidence to each other even as opposing parts before the trial it is considered to be a gentlemen's agreement.

In general I have seen the transformation of law students from normal people to arrogant pricks.Since I am aware of their intelligence status I like to expose them one way or another.Law lets in for ambiguous terms and you can really have a lot of fun.
coldlikedeath 1 | 7
6 Nov 2011 #138
I cheated ONCE on a smallfish religion exam in 3rd year; the teacher left the room and we all tried to get as many answers as poss cos we couldn’t remember em! Funny at the time. not now. I'm at the University of Silesia and I wouldn’t dare cheat, it’d screw up everything.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
27 Nov 2013 #139
Some people have nothing better to be complaining about, what lives they must live :P

It's always funny to be honest - what do they really expect from a foreigner? I don't sulk when someone sends me messages with mistakes, why would I?
szczecinianin 4 | 345
27 Nov 2013 #141
Exactly, life is too short to waste on such trivial things........like lurking in a forum and targeting specific posters :D

I completely agree, smurf. Some posters here even set up new accounts just to attack other posters. What losers!
Harry
27 Nov 2013 #142
Moves to Poland for love and prosperity

Some of us moved to Poland knowing nobody here and for a monthly volunteer's stipend equal to what we now earn in 120 minutes.
Perhaps you'd like to tell us about all the wonderful things you do for Poland, other than occasionally giving a few zloty to whichever charities that are close to your heart?


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