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The worst of Polish education. No wonder Polish universities are bottom of the list.


rybnik 18 | 1,461
13 Feb 2011 #31
Cheating is rampant in Polish schools and the worst thing about it is that profs tend to turn a blind eye. Somehow it seems as though it is accepted.

I was an American student in Wroclaw during the PRL-days. I was very surprised and impressed with the level of sophisticated cheating methods my polish classmates employed. At that time it was overlooked by the instructors. Those same students are now instructors and so the cheating continues and is tolerated.
BBman - | 344
13 Feb 2011 #32
What made you want to study in Poland? Did you get a polish degree? Was it recognised in the US?

You should make a thread about your student days in Poland.
OP Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
13 Feb 2011 #33
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8493132.stm

"But pupils are also being targeted by websites openly selling "exam cheat equipment", including concealed ear-pieces to receive information."

OK, now i have found a link that shows/explains what i'm on about.

I would like to know for sure, if earpieces are used in Poland.
alexw68
13 Feb 2011 #34
In Poland since 2006 every major has to be devided into bachelors (licencjat) and masters (magister) degree levels = studia dwustopniowe. Once you have licencjat you can study every magister major you want regardless of your licencjat major. It calls "system boloński" I guess...

Well, at least it's consistent with the rest of Europe. But the idea that a magister can be considered a superior degree is severely compromised. 90% of pracy magisterskie (I use the Polish phrase but obviously include the UK too) aren't worth the paper they're written on.
anastazja
13 Feb 2011 #35
I would like to know for sure, if earpieces are used in Poland.

I've already gave you an aswer. I haven't met with these kind of things neither heard of that until now but this maturzysta from Lodz case (which I found on gazeta pl and posted earlier in that topic) proves that such things might happen here as well.

90% of pracy magisterskie (I use the Polish phrase but obviously include the UK too) aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Yep that's sad true. But it's also the promotors fault.

obviously include the UK too

Really? I've always thought that UK unis are top-notch. So where the hell the real education still exist? ;)

You should make a thread about your student days in Poland.

That would be a nice idea.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
13 Feb 2011 #36
What made you want to study in Poland? Did you get a polish degree? Was it recognised in the US?

You should make a thread about your student days in Poland.

BB
Many factors went into my deciding to study in Poland. All held equal weight and importance. So I'll just list them:
1) ALL of my family,uncles, aunts and cousins were in poland. I had a real longing to finally meet them.
2) My father was MR POLONIA. My childhood was steeped in polish culture.
3) I thought it would be great to "kill many birds with one stone" as it were: education, visit the land of my ancestors and connect with family. I was a very idealistic young man.

So, in 1978, fresh out of college, I set off for Krakow with a bunch of Americans for our adventure of a lifetime.
...as far as a thread is concerned, you think??
alexw68
13 Feb 2011 #37
Really? I've always thought that UK unis are top-notch.

Some of 'em, yes. But where they're working to a business model (simply put, more students = more funding) rather than an academic directive there are going to be problems.

Bottom line: you get what you pay for.
anastazja
13 Feb 2011 #38
But where they're working to a business model (simply put, more students = more funding) rather than an academic directive there are going to be problems.

The same problem in Poland. In Gazeta there was a whole series of articles about the horrific problems of higher education in Poland. One of them explained why the hell in recent years the matura exam level dropped and why Unis are so eager to accept mediocre candidates... and the reason is obvious - MONEY! One year of one student costs Govt about 10 000 PLN (in some faculties even much more). So unis who want more funds have to accept lots of student...
emha - | 92
13 Feb 2011 #39
In Poland since 2006 every major has to be devided into bachelors (licencjat) and masters (magister) degree levels = studia dwustopniowe. Once you have licencjat you can study every magister major you want regardless of your licencjat major. It calls "system boloński" I guess...

Are you sure?:) Tray it with medicine, law .. Take a look at this list :

studies-in-poland.pl/s/2333/57926-Studies-in-Poland.htm?m=2 &k=&r=&st=&muz=m&dwze=d&g=
anastazja
13 Feb 2011 #40
Are you sure?:) Tray it with medicine, law .. Take a look at this list :

Ok. Not every :)
alexw68
13 Feb 2011 #41
The natural science faculties and business schools, on the other hand, are generally pumping out education of a very high quality (I hear several Polish business schools are beginning to enjoy a similarly good rep). You have to pay through the nose for it, but that's another matter.

Case in point:



(I'm the bonehead who says a couple of words in Polish around the one-minute mark :))) )
anastazja
13 Feb 2011 #42
it seems you're a big fish :) Now everyone on PF will want to be your friend ;)
rybnik 18 | 1,461
13 Feb 2011 #43
(I'm the bonehead who says a couple of words in Polish around the one-minute mark :))) )

More than a couple alex! Not bad.
alexw68
13 Feb 2011 #44
it seems you're a big fish :)

Maybe, maybe not; but in the world of - to use the title of that TVN piece - rekiny finansjery ('financial sharks'), that doesn't make you special. It means that if you're not careful, you're dinner...

Now everyone on PF will want to be your friend ;)

Or not. I mean, everybody loves a banker, right? (OK - I know I'm not one, not even close, but guilt by association and all that :) ) That said - anyone interested, you know where to find me :)

More than a couple alex! Not bad.

More than enough :) The faculty head didn't tell me this was going to happen till about 10 minutes before the thing was shot. He's got a sense of humour like that. Stage fright or what!
Trevek 26 | 1,702
13 Feb 2011 #45
Two of my colleagues are Polish and are involved with Cambridge FCE/CAE/CPE.

One of them told me that a couple of years ago changes were made to the set-up of the listening exams because due to it happening in different countries on different days, there was a high number of people recording the exam on their phones (aurally and visually) and then selling it on the internet. two biggest perps were greece and... guess where!

A friend of mine recently told of finding a student phoning for answers during an exam.

When I tell them about British exams and how even looking as if your looking might get you thrown out, they can't believe it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
14 Feb 2011 #46
That said - anyone interested, you know where to find me :)

Ahem! ;)

I think the saddest story I have is of a group of teenagers that I used to teach. They were great kids, I was only 23 at the time and they were 14-16, so we had a mutual understanding of "being a slacker" and "I want to go to sleep, not sit here". Everything was fine and well, until I decided that we would spend two hours playing games. I couldn't be bothered that day, they couldn't be bothered - so it made perfect sense.

So, first game was hangman. To make it relevant, I was using phrases from their coursebook. It was great, we had a laugh with some of it, everyone was happy - until I caught one of the kids cheating. He was actually looking through the book for the potential answer - but only when my back was turned.

Unsurprisingly, they all got an hour and a half of exceptionally tedious grammar teaching as a punishment. The icing on the cake was making them write about when they last cheated - and the sad part was that all of them had cheated in school within the last two weeks.

The kid never messed with me again, though ;)
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #47
Maybe we should start a PF investment club. ;-)

Seriously.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
14 Feb 2011 #48
Did you get a polish degree? Was it recognised in the US?

I got my polish degree and yes it was recognized in the US as originating from a bone fide institution but no, I couldn't continue with my studies unless I took/passed an exam.
f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Feb 2011 #49
My teacher in middle school was saying that's good to write cheating sheets because when preparig it kids learn!

some of my teachers allowed one standard sized cheat sheet. Those were works of art. One time I wrote so small to fit it all in, I could not read them myself. I think the teacher knew we were not really meant to memorize all these formulas.

In US, as far as reviewing the past test from the teachers - that is pretty much a standard. In some of the more advanced engineering classes, going cold to a final without a clue of what kind of questions that teacher usually asks is considered unsufficient preparation. Sometimes the students get lucky when a lazy teacher does not change the tests at all. It's the same as telling others what kind of questions were asked, except now, it all gets stored electronically. Within an hour, the test is recreated from memory and saved for posperity. That's one of the fringe benefits of the greek system.

Of course, during tests: no cell phones allowed, no calculators, no bugs in ears, no leaving to the bathroom, if two students are caught communicating, both get an immediate F, which usually means failing the class.
anastazja
14 Feb 2011 #50
some of my teachers allowed one standard sized cheat sheet.

What do you mean? That your teacher allowed to have a cheating sheets?

quote=f stop]That's one of the fringe benefits of the greek system.[/quote]

greek system?

Of course, during tests: no cell phones allowed, no calculators, no bugs in ears, no leaving to the bathroom, if two students are caught communicating, both get an immediate F, which usually means failing the class.

What if one student communicate to another student who is not willing to participate in cheating? He also gets F?
alexw68
14 Feb 2011 #51
Again, to take this slightly beyond the cheating issue: if A and B are universities, where do you stand on the following continuum

A <----------------------------------> B

Where A:
-- prioritises diligence over creative thinking
-- requires the assimilation of encyclopaedic quantities of prime source
-- promulgates a culture of authority -> disciple
-- leans heavily on examinations or assessment

and B:
-- leaves space for, and encourages dissident opinion
-- means students have to find their own way, construct their own frames of reference
-- aims to be a culture of facilitator <-> collaborator
-- assesses through case studies, term papers - an 'open book' approach

A and B are of course 'as advertised' and the actual implementation (ie, do they practice what they preach?) is often a slightly different thing, though I've tried to characterize them in a way that should be subject-agnostic and therefore as broadly representative as possible. No prizes for guessing in which countries A and B obtain most frequently - but is this thumbnail sketch overly schematic? Are there contrary indicators? Do you know of examples that break the mould?
anastazja
14 Feb 2011 #52
Poles are not prepared for B. They never came across this kind of thinking before on their education path so even if there would be any opportunities of independent thinking and creative approach, many would still prefer clear expectations and learning from books. As many noticed here creative thinking is the weak point for many Poles (of course there some intelligent skilled individuals who would benefit of such approach but I believe most would feel disoriented if given a chance to self-developement).
alexw68
14 Feb 2011 #53
As many noticed here creative thinking is the weak point for many Poles

There are plenty for whom it isn't a problem at all. But the ones I've talked to say it's largely despite University, rather than because of it.
anastazja
14 Feb 2011 #54
But the ones I've talked to say it's largely despite University, rather than because of it.

I don't say it's because of university but education on the whole which kills creativity. Of course not everyone is able to be creative because of his/her natural predipositions.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
14 Feb 2011 #55
The approach I experienced when in liceum and at university seemed to be a mix of A and B - first you read the books and listen to your teacher and take notes and learn facts by heart, and then we all sit down and have an intelligent discussion about the topic. You can't be creative or "find your own way" without being shown the ropes first, and that's a fact (you can't become a painter without learning the rules of perspective, though you might then discard them; but they are a necessary stepping stone).
alexw68
14 Feb 2011 #56
@Magdalena: what subject/s did you take?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
14 Feb 2011 #57
Liceum - humanities profile, which meant lots of English, Latin, Polish, history, and Russian plus all the other obligatory subjects like maths, chemistry, physics, biology etc.

Uni - English Studies (literature, history, linguistics, plus philosophy, pedagogy, psychology etc.)
anastazja
14 Feb 2011 #58
The approach I experienced when in liceum and at university seemed to be a mix of A and B - first you read the books and listen to your teacher and take notes and learn facts by heart, and then we all sit down and have an intelligent discussion about the topic

I guess you were attending private liceum and one of the top-notched faculties. In my liceum there was no time for discussion (and the liceum was renowned).

You can't be creative or "find your own way" without being shown the ropes first, and that's a fact

I agree

(you can't become a painter without learning the rules of perspective, though you might then discard them; but they are a necessary stepping stone).

I don't agree. Consciousness kills creativeness and I really know it. The best piece of works made those who did not attended any art school. They make naive art but out of the heart. People after art schools make calculated art...

Liceum - humanities profile, which meant lots of English, Latin, Polish, history, and Russian plus all the other obligatory subjects like maths, chemistry, physics, biology etc.
Uni - English Studies (literature, history, linguistics, plus philosophy, pedagogy, psychology etc.)

How many years ago?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
14 Feb 2011 #59
I guess you were attending private liceum and one of the top-notched faculties.

Nope, my LO was not especially renowned and it definitely wasn't private.
Top-notch faculty? Maybe. Can't say one way or another. ;-)

How many years ago?

Quite a time ago, that's true. Under the communist regime, when nothing was allowed so people did whatever the heck they wanted anyway ;-)

BTW - speaking of A and B approach, two different English Lit. examination approaches at university:

1) Year 1, Medieval and Renaissance English Lit., Polish teacher, question: "Discuss the alchemical symbolism in Shakespeare's Tempest"
2) Year 3, 19th century English Lit., British teacher, question: "What dress was XYZ wearing during the dinner scene in Chapter One of novel ABC?"

I was totally able to answer the first question; in the second instance, I floundered and almost failed my exam. Even though The Tempest was the only play by Shakespeare that I had not actually read ;-)
alexw68
14 Feb 2011 #60
2) Year 3, 19th century English Lit., British teacher, question: "What dress was XYZ wearing during the dinner scene in Chapter One of novel ABC?"

I wanted to say something here, but my jaw is still firmly stuck to the floor where it fell ... :-S

Where did they find the Brit teacher? Wandering the streets or something?


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