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I'm thinking to study in the Wrocław University of Science and Technology

Roger5 2 | 1,475    
10 Oct 2017  #31
2017 Gallup. Down to 37%, the lowest figure for nearly 40 years, but still ridiculously high. The fact that you call it bs just because you don't like it says a lot, dd.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
10 Oct 2017  #32

You either didn't read what I wrote or have poor comprehension. I clearly stated that yes - the idea that half of americans believe that the world is 5,000 years old (which is what you wrote earlier) is B.S. as that isn't even what the Gallup poll tested.

I also said that yes, if roughly half of Americans believe that God made man in his image (as opposed to say evolution), I could believe that. This also doesn't include only Christians - Muslims and Jews have similar beliefs. Or even political identity as we see the amount of republicans who believe in that is only slightly higher than democrats followed by independents.

You stated that 'half of Americans believe the world is 5k years old' which clearly isn't true and isn't what the gallup poll even tested - they tested the belief that God made man in his image some 10k years ago which I could easily see half of Americans believing regardless of what major faith they're in as it's a common belief in the Abrahamic religions.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
10 Oct 2017  #33
Also, most Roman Catholics and most Protestants in US don't buy into creationism and fundamentalism - including clergy. That tends be more of a millenarian thing that Jehova's Witnesses, Mormans, and the Evangelicals (of which there are a TON in the Bible belt). Even with the Evangelicals only a slight majority don't believe in evolution (57%)

You're 2017 Gallup poll seems to be consistent with another one I found -

A 2017 poll by Pew Research found that 62% of Americans believe humans have evolved over time and 34% of Americans believe humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time
Roger5 2 | 1,475    
10 Oct 2017  #34
Given your distrust in polls I guess you won't quote any from now on. Tbh I didn't read everything you wrote because, frankly, life's too short. Ok, not 5000 years but 10000 years. Happier?
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
10 Oct 2017  #35
Ok, not 5000 years but 10000 years

Except that isn't what the poll tested either...

I don't trust polls because I know that they can be easily manipulated - doesn't mean other people do though
OP Whocares386 1 | 8    
12 Oct 2017  #36
@Dirk diggler - That'll be difficult in Poland because there isn't a whole lot of separation of church and state even in the public schools

Yes, you're right about that but I'm not planning to live in the Poland, I just want to study and gain some work experiences in there. I think England might be better choice for me. I don't know it is true but I heard if get a degree from Poland I can secure employment in continent Europe, is it true ? If it so, it seems employment in UK should be much easier for me.

London is expensive yes but I don't want live in the London neither unless I got desirable job offer. I can live in cities such as: Sheffield, Leicester, Leeds, Bristol etc.. these cities seem affordable. As a computer programmer I can apply on the Tier-2 visa but I don't know practically how it works. If I work in the Poland a few years in the tech companies, that experience will be enough for me ?

Any experience suggestions for me ? Thanks.

@DominicB - There has been a major diplomatic incident that has really soured relations between the US and Turkey.

Yes but as far as I know that diplomatic problem will be solved within a few months. Yes, there is no news about that but Turkey is member of NATO and allied with U.S. Also Turkish citizens can apply to U.S consolutes in the other countries.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
12 Oct 2017  #37
Let me put it to you this way.. yes and no.. Its more of a case by case basis. Poland is still considered a backwater place by many in w Europe. It's not the same as getting a degree from like UK France or even Germany Netherlands etc. Itd be like if say I interviewed a programmer who finished school in Guatemala mexico el Salvador etc. Most people including myself may question how good the school was but ultimately if he can display he knos c++ ruby html java or whatever he'd get the job. Now if the guy studied medicine and became a doctor in mexico, he'd have to retake the licensing tests to practice medicine elsewhere. Most prestigious hospitals amd networks would prolly be weary of hiring a guy who became a doc in 5 6 years at sum college in mexico or the carribean instead of the usual 8. Nonetheless if he passed the certification he could still land a job being a doctor.

With it and cs its more ability and experience that counts. There's a website called like (or .com forgot which one) and you can check out salaries where jobs are etc..
Atch 14 | 2,232    
12 Oct 2017  #38
I don't know it is true but I heard if get a degree from Poland I can secure employment in continent Europe, is it true ?

Do you mean that it would be easier for you to obtain a job because you had a qualification from a European university? You're just as likely to get a job in the EU having qualified in Turkey. There are loads of software engineers from the Indian subcontinent getting jobs all over Europe and very few employers would have heard of the colleges they've attended or know anything about them.

Basically, whether you study in Turkey or an EU country, getting your first job will be the biggest challenge you face. As a new grad in Poland you would be competing against Polish nationals and it will be hard for you to get chosen over them. Going straight from a Polish university to seeking a job elsewhere in Europe won't be any easier. Most EU countries have a shortage of highly skilled, senior software engineers but they're not especially short of new, untried and untested graduates.

It's professional experience that counts most when jobhunting and most of the non-European software engineers working in Europe are not new grads. Once you've worked somewhere for a year or two, most employers don't care what university you went to unless it was one of the famous ones like Cambridge in the UK or Stanford in America. They only care about what you can do.

The best thing you can do is study for your degree in Turkey, work there for a year or possibly two and then start applying for jobs elsewhere. With two years experience under your belt you'll be a junior software engineer rather than a graduate softwear engineer and you'll have a better chance of finding work abroad.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
12 Oct 2017  #39
Ya honestly ditch the idea of studying it in Poland. If you're going to study abroad this is one of those go big or go home scenarios. Either get into a good school in UK US etc or stay in Turkey... And even then it rly won't make much difference in the long run. There's Indian dudes from schools I've never heard of making 40k zl a month (around 10 12k USD) in germany.
DominicB - | 2,600    
12 Oct 2017  #40
The best thing you can do is study for your degree in Turkey, work there for a year or possibly two and then start applying for jobs elsewhere.

I agree that earning a degree at a good engineering school in Turkey and getting a few years experience there makes more sense than getting a degree from an English-language course in Poland or any other of the poorer countries of the EU if your ultimate goal is to move to the UK or the US. The utility of studying or working in Poland as a "stepping stone" to landing a job in richer countries is vastly overrated and oversold to the point of becoming a bit of a scam, or, in many cases, an outright scam.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
12 Oct 2017  #41
The utility of studying or working in Poland as a "stepping stone" to landing a job in richer countries is vastly overrated and oversold to the point of becoming a bit of a scam, or, ... an outright scam.

True. Yet so many people from the Indian subcontinent are lining up for it still.
OP Whocares386 1 | 8    
12 Oct 2017  #42
@Dirk diggler, @Atch, @DominicB

Thank you very much for your precious suggestions for me. I've asked so many questions and you've answered all of them for me. I really appreciate about that.

I don't know in the future maybe I change my mind but currently I've decided to study in the Poland after that I'll try to gain some experiences in the Poland and then I'll think again which country is more proper for me UK or U.S.

I wish success in your life.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
12 Oct 2017  #43

Its ultimately up to you. Honestly heed the advice though or at least consider it. If so many people are telling you you're better off not studying in Poland at least ask why people who are from there are telling you that. The English level classes in PL are BS and Polish employers are aware of that. You're going to have a very hard time finding a job both during and after school for the simple fact that you're not a polish speaker, you're not a native English speaker (so it may be hard for you even to get a job as like a translator, English teacher or tutor, etc), and its going to be an uphill battle even after you get your degree just getting in the door at a polish firm. Only way I see this really working is if your family is supporting you during school and probably for a few months afterwards till you find a job in Germany, US, UK, etc
Atch 14 | 2,232    
13 Oct 2017  #44
@ Whocares It's not often that I agree with Dirk but he's right. Don't kid yourself that you will learn Polish while you're in Poland and be fluent by the time you finish college. It won't happen. It's a difficult language and you won't have time to study it so you will pick up some basics and rely on English to get by the rest of the time. A Polish employer will not be interested in a new graduate from a non-EU country who doesn't speak fluent Polish.

I understand completely how you don't see your future in Turkey and you just want to get out of there as soon as you can and start your 'life'. I remember what it's like to be seventeen and how I saw the world back then. At that age people have huge optimism and self-belief and they're sure that desite what people say, it's all possible and it will be different for them. But it won't!

Also you do seem to be convinced that studying in the EU is a kind of automatic route to a job in the EU and it isn't when you're not an EU citizen. Even if you do get a job, it will only be a temporary contract and you will have to be a few years in a country before you can even apply for permanent residence.

Ulitmately in the long run you might want to consider Canada rather than America. It's a beautiful country and the people are nice. Also they need skilled people and operate an immigration policy based around the skills they need. Cities like Toronto have a huge multi-cultural population. In fact over half Toronto residents are foreign nationals. You can apply for permanent residence and citizenship in Canada within quite a short time, I think about two years. There's lots of information out there on the internet so check it out. Wish you the best of luck.
Roger5 2 | 1,475    
13 Oct 2017  #45
"Canada rather than America. It's a beautiful country and the people are nice." I know what you mean, but that gave me my first laugh of the day.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
13 Oct 2017  #46

They won't take him in Canada. He's neither a millionaire nor a college grad. Their immigration policies are stricter than US. In US he has a chance. After he's done w college he has a better chance of getting into Canada but not now.
Atch 14 | 2,232    
13 Oct 2017  #47
I meant after he's finished college. You didn't seriously think that I'd advise a seventeen year old from Turkey to emigrate to Canada without a proper education and a profession under his belt in this day and age, even if it were possible to do so, now did you?
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
13 Oct 2017  #48

I reread your post and noticed the words 'long run' my bad
Atch 14 | 2,232    
13 Oct 2017  #49
Ah don't worry, no problem :)
KnightCatcher - | 2    
14 Oct 2017  #50
@Dirk diggler, @DominicB, @Atch

Hi, I've been thinking to study in the Poland too and I've seen that topic it has nice discussion for me.

Firstly, I don't know any of you studied in the Poland but I have heard many times those Polish students choose English programmes in the Poland just understand much better in the fields such as engineering, programming or any other available IT education (at least 50-60 percentage of them). As you know that, especially IT is based on English language so studying in English might be good choice. Haven't you heard anything about that ? If English programmes are bad in Poland, why the hell those student prefer that programmes ? Here in Romania, we don't have good universities but some of my friends prefer to study in the Poland or Hungary.

I don't know anything about universities in the Turkey, but according to OP's opinions he'll never going to be happy in the Turkey that means he can't be successful person in his education life that's important point. Culture is important but I don't blame OP for that because unfortunately Islam is a ruthles ideology if you are a non-religious one you'll suffer from politcs, people, traditions et cetera... You guys probably don't know anything about that and that's why you don't understand.

OP, you don't have enough money you can't study in the USA, UK or another country which is its official language is Eng, but you can study in the Eastern European countries and I highly support your further studies outside of Turkey. Also remember, if you don't be satisfied your education in the Poland, after you got your BS you can study postgraduate in the west.

Good luck.
Roger5 2 | 1,475    
14 Oct 2017  #51
Please stop saying the Poland.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
14 Oct 2017  #52

Idk why people esp foreigners have this obsession w studying in Poland. I attitribute it marketing and desperation. The schools in Poland, English or polish, really aren't that great at the college level in terms of international ranking. I dont think youll find more than one pl school in the top 300 (maybe even top 500) internationally. The poles who take classes in English and are planning to stay were too dumb to get into a better school or maybe they're doing it to practice their English idk. Polish employers know the English language schools are bs and believe they operate on a you pay, you graduate basis. Its a bit of an exaggeration but that's the belief amongst many pl employers anyway.

You can do your bachelors in pl either English or polish and then go to grad school elsewhere. You'll need to send in applications which look at where you went, what your grades were, and so on. In EU a polish school won't command the same respect as say a UK French, German, dutch, etc uni but its at least acceptable. Each country has their own unique standards and processes for grad school. In us for law school you take an lsat, medical you take MCAT, business you take GMAT and all other subjects GRE.

Also you don't say the Poland, the turkey, etc. Were all aware of the desctrutive nature of radical Islam and the terror and chaos Muslims have spread in their gracious west European host nations. Thats why Poland refuses to take in muslim migrants. Were more interested in maintaining a perfect 0 Muslim terror attacks than appeasing people who call any conservative a racist.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
14 Oct 2017  #53
I studied at the university of Maastricht for a little. My experience was only 2 semesters though. I absolutely loved it. If you're into culture, history and all that go to school in Europe. If you want to just drink and hook up with random women for 4 years go to the us. Chances are quite sadly that us degree will be more respected - of course depending on school but usually an average us school will be regarded higher than an average polish Hungarian Romanian Greek etc school. Only exception to that might be UK France Germany and perhaps Spain and Holland. Generally even out of even those 5 countries there's maybe 4 or 5 renowned unis and the rest fairly unknown. But if you're planning to go to grad school ultimately it doesn't rly make all that much of a difference. Naturally though you'll have it harder trying to get into a place like Harvard or lse or insead from a relatively unknown polish or even us school than a top one.

It all depends on how high you can score on the tests, how much money you have, and what kind of career you want.
KnightCatcher - | 2    
14 Oct 2017  #54
@Dirk diggler

No, actually not so many foreigners prefer Poland, just students who haven't got enough money to study in the west, prefer Poland. I've read so many things written about Poland also for the Hungary but all I want to say is it is not bad as much as you guys thinking. Yes, western countries have much better education nobody admits that but if someone doesn't have enough money her or she can study in the Poland I think that's the point.

Btw, you guys also forgetting 4 years not a short time especially in the Turkey a dictator making things even worse.. OP, should go to the Poland and study there after he got his CS degree he can easily work in tech companies as a programmer even he has no Polish language. 1-2 years later he'll be in average position if he pay attention then he can be able to look jobs in whatever country he wants. There are so many oppurtunites out there, Canada - NZ - Australia has skilled worker programmes. USA always will be needed skilled programmers.

But I have no idea about UK. Probably if he really wants to live in the England, Scotland I'm sure he can find a way. Tech industry is in good position in Britain they might be offer jobs in this positions.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,974    
15 Oct 2017  #55

Like I said - it depends how much money you have, what career you want, etc.

Same. I've read a bit bout the UK system but never went there. I know the schools are good there though. There's a few elite schools in Spain, France, Holland, Switerzland, etc. But yea depending on what career you chose depends where is going to be your best ROI. If you're doing IT programming type **** and you learn how to program in places like Poland, Hungary, Romania, etc. and get some early experience you can absolutely move out to the West even like Germany and make $8-$10k a month or more even for jobs with a few years of experience.

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