The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Study  % width posts: 37

How hard is it to get accepted to Wroclaw University of Technology? / Unis in general?


philipe 2 | -
5 Jan 2013 #1
hello, I am from Syria and i am currently completing my baccalaureate degree .
I have a polish nationality, and I am looking forward to study mechanical engineering (in English) in WUT .
I was just wondering how hard is it to get accepted ?
Is it considerably good to get 80% marks in math and physics and chemistry in the baccalaureate or should i get higher marks ?
are the chances of me getting accepted in that case high ?
APF 4 | 106
5 Feb 2013 #3
Very easy, they take everyone ..
jwojcie 2 | 763
6 Feb 2013 #4
For Poles it very much depends on faculty. Some are popular and harder to get accepted, some aren't.
I have no idea how is this apply to foreigners.
JakeyKakey - | 4
7 Apr 2013 #5
Merged: How difficult is it really to get into Wroclaw University of Technology/Unis in general?

Hey, native Pole here, though I spent a better part of my life living in UK. My GCSE's were excellent, but I had a bunch of personal issues during my A-Levels that prompted me to drop the ball quite a fair bit and end up with mere C/D/D which isn't as terrible as it could have been but it's certainly not worth the effort of going to some sub-par uni in UK only to deal with the raised tuition prices. I'm considering going back to Poland to study an English-language Comp Sci course at WUoT seeing how it'd be nice to get back into the ol' country while also having the convenience of being pretty bloody fluent at both languages, but I'm worried my less-than-stellar results might get in the way. I'm definitely capable of way more than that (having generally gotten all of my **** together since then) and doubt I'll struggle much in the first year considering I've covered a lot of the stuff I'll be doing already during my A-Levels, but there's a lot of hearsay and unreliable information going around regarding actually getting accepted into the foreigner's/English-lang courses. The common opinion that seems to be going around is that the unis are generally pretty lenient on the admissions themselves, then leave you to fend for yourself with regards to whether you can actually make it through the hardships of your first semester, but for all I know, that could very well just be a load of bollocks. Can anyone offer some advice with regards to this?
DominicB - | 2,709
8 Apr 2013 #6
The common opinion that seems to be going around is that the unis are generally pretty lenient on the admissions themselves

That's right. The way first year students are treated (or, rather, ignored) in Poland is scandalous. About half of the students will be rejected after the first semester, more or less depending on the major and university in question. Up to 100% in one case I know. Because of some quirk in the Polish constitution, universities are required by law to be less selective. They also receive government funding based on the number of students they accept, so there is a huge incentive to accept just about anyone. Once you're there, you'll receive little if any attention or help (unless you stand out above the crowd). The first year is little more than a weeding-out process.

Another problem you're going to encounter is primitive and insufficient practical instruction in inadequate, poorly equipped facilities, and primitive, rote-based theoretical instruction in areas that have little revelvance nowadays. I mentor a first-year biochemistry student at WUT, and am horrified at the atrocious level of instruction he is receiving. I got him through the first semester, though, and it looks like he will do fine. But that's only because his folks are rich enough to afford a tutor like me to spend six hours a week on private lessons so that he can do well in biology, chemistry, math and English.

To put things in perspective, if Imperial College is a 10 among engineering schools, WUT is a 3 , and no Polish university scores much higher.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
8 Apr 2013 #7
What did you mean DominicB ? That Wroclaw University of Technology is 3rd in Poland? I don't get this comparison with Imperial. IT there shouldn't be so outdated as Biochemistry. Anyway it changes so fast that it's enough that they teach you some bases and in your 1st job you will have to learn something what wasn't taught in university anyway. Since you're for English course in Polish uni, it won't be free. Then you may consider pjwstk.edu.pl - as it's best private school in Poland and they should be quite up to date with currents IT trends. What more AGH, or Politechnika Warszawska are considered same good as Politechnika Wrocławska. With bad marks probably you have no chances for IT course in polish there. Have no Idea how big competition would be in English. Must be lower, as it's not free. (or maybe something has changed and they do now free courses in English in Poland)
DominicB - | 2,709
8 Apr 2013 #8
What did you mean DominicB ? That Wroclaw University of Technology is 3rd in Poland?

By Polish standards, WUT is near the top. By world standards, though, it's third rate. SGH and UW are among the few schools in Poland to be second-rate on a world scale, and, even then, that applies only to certain elite programs there.

but it's certainly not worth the effort of going to some sub-par uni in UK only to deal with the raised tuition prices.

I see. The choice you have is to go to a sub-par university in the UK and pay a lot, or to go to an equally sub-par university in Poland and pay less because you are a native Pole.

Have you thought about spending a year or two and beefing up your sciences and math so that you can get into a better university in the UK? Can you retake your A levels in a year or two? If so, get some remedial education and try to get into a better school. I have a student that didn't make the cut at WUT, and now he's taking math, science, German and English lessons with me so that he can get into a much better school in Germany. Like you, he had personal problems when he was in Liceum and his final grades were poor. But he's working his ass off now and he'll do great.

My brother did something simiar in the States. He did poorly in high school, but went to community college for two years, and then got accepted to Brown, and ivy-league school, where he did great.

As for the treatment you'll get as an undergraduate at a Polish university, I'm afraid that what I said above is true. It's not an environment that's conducive to learning.
JakeyKakey - | 4
8 Apr 2013 #9
What did you mean DominicB ? That Wroclaw University of Technology is 3rd in Poland? I don't get this comparison with Imperial.

He meant that on a scale of 1-10, if London's Imperial College was a 10, WUT would be a 3. Which is fair enough, though the so-called 'World Rankings' kinda suffer a massive anglo-centric bias where the Top 100-200 is practically all American/British/Canadian/Australian unis with like maybe one major foreign uni per country which I personally find kinda iffy. Yeah, the top 50 unis might be objectively that much better, but later down the line I kinda find it a lot less believable that your best Italian/German/French/Spanish/Polish/Russian etc. unis are truly worse than an average US/UK university rather than someone out there doing the rankings half-asses it when it comes to assessing foreign universities.

Besides there's no chance in hell I'm getting into Imperial and I'd still have to pay the same £30-£40k tuition for a mediocre English uni, while as a EU-national I can get free education at what is essentially one of the best if not the best technical uni in Poland.

And thank you a lot DomincB, for putting a lot of my initial concerns at ease. Yeah, I've heard a lot of similar complaints before, but such can be penance for slacking off and getting myself to this state, these last two years. As you said, it doesn't get much better than that, Poland-wise, and the place still carries a fair amount of prestige so I guess I'll just have to work my arse off to get through the first year. As I mentioned, I do have the advantage of having already done a Computing A-Level to cover all the Comp Sci basics as well as a Maths A-Level that, in terms of complexity, ended up roughly a year ahead of even the extended-Maths matura, so right now will be a fine time to start going through my old books like a madman up until October. :D

Sorry, double-posting because the other reply came up as I was in the middle of writing:

I did consider resitting exams, but I had plans for a 2012/2013 apprenticeship that ultimately fell through leaving me essentially until 2014/2015 to actually be able to apply through UCAS which is kind of a long time. I'm also a bit of a 'live with my mistakes' kind of guy because frankly I feel like I'm going to need that failure and lack of safety net to really keep me motivated not to slack off. Besides, I do kind of want to get out of Britain because a) outrageous tuition fees hike and b) wanting to strand myself out there in order to grow up, improve my social skills, the whole shebang and Poland happens to be the most convenient mix of both new, yet familiar.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Apr 2013 #10
while as a EU-national I can get free education at what is essentially one of the best if not the best technical uni in Poland.

Not in English you can't. You'll be paying quite a bit of money, and there aren't any student loans to support you.

Can anyone offer some advice with regards to this?

Universities will take anyone on English language courses as long as their qualifications are equal to the Matura. In your case, three passes at A level is more than enough. The fact that they'll take anyone should be seen as a pretty obvious hint as to the credibility of the courses.

As for fending for yourself, most universities are very good with English speaking (hint : paying) students. I've never heard of them leaving such students to rot - they will normally help you quite a lot as they won't want to lose the several thousand Euro a year in fees.

But you should consider something else, and that is that 99% of English language courses in Poland are a complete joke designed to get money from non-EU nationals who want a cheap education.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
8 Apr 2013 #11
and google says that a year or two ago they had only 3 applicants per place in Computer Science department, so perhaps you can get into normal polish faculty with your marks?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Apr 2013 #12
Because of some quirk in the Polish constitution, universities are required by law to be less selective.

That's not true at all. What the truth is that Polish universities simply do not have a cut off for grades, so it's all down to the competition for places. If the quality of applicants for a course are low, then the entry requirements are equally low. Likewise if a course attracts a high quality of applicant, then the grades required will also be very high.

Once you're there, you'll receive little if any attention or help

That's how the big boys play.
JakeyKakey - | 4
8 Apr 2013 #13
Not in English you can't. You'll be paying quite a bit of money, and there aren't any student loans to support you.

rekrutacja.pwr.edu.pl/content/strona/EN/Fees.html
I know a lot of them do require you to pay, but WUoT specifically doesn't. Kind of a shame everyone seems to sound so cynical about it though.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Apr 2013 #14
Ah yes, you're right.

I would expect that course to be quite competitive in terms of entry - you can normally find this information available online somewhere. I'd be willing to bet that your grades aren't going to be good enough to get onto that course - I know what Politechnika Poznanska expects, and I'd be surprised if it was any lower in Wroclaw. Computer science is notoriously difficult to get into in Poland (due to many, many high calibre applicants) - and a course in English for free will be very attractive, especially as a good job will almost be guaranteed to graduates.

Best bet is to contact the university directly and figure out how many points your A-levels will be worth, then compare to last year's admissions.

The course actually might be quite good, and Poland is producing many very good CompSci graduates at the minute. For that reason, I think it's pretty unlikely that you'll get accepted with those grades.
DominicB - | 2,709
8 Apr 2013 #15
Keep hitting the math books hard until October. If you haven't done formal logic yet, try to get it in now. Brush up on rhetorical logic as well. Learn the list of logical fallacies inside and out, and you'll be living on a whole different plane of existence than the overwhelming majority of your classmates.

When you get to Poland, find a tutor to keep you moving. There are plenty of grad students who would gladly help for about 6 Pounds an hour. It's a lot easier to keep moving if someone is constantly kicking you in the pants, and is available to help you if you get stuck. Line up a place to live in May. June at the latest. The best, and most affordable, places are gone after that.

As for neighborhoods, I would go with Szczepin/Mikołajów (Tram stops Młodych Techników, Plac Strzegomski and Zachodnia). Yes, you'll be living in a block, but the meighborhood is really clean and safe. Mostly retired engineers live here. The most important thing, though, is the trams. It take about twenty minutes to get from there to WUT, and there is a tram every four or five minutes (lines 10 and 33). Prices tend to be lower than the trendier areas like Biskupin, Ołbin, Sępolno or Krzyki, and the value is about the same as far as a student is concerned, so the value is good. Access to downtown and to stores is great.

Avoid Śródmieście and the Trójkąt Bermudzki areas unless you are experienced living in rougher neighborhoods. Their generally safe during the day, but at night drunks, both young and old, can make life unpleasant.

Stay about a month or two ahead of the curriculum, and always know the subject matter to be discussed BEFORE a lecture. The more you go in with, the more you come out with, and if you go in with nothing, you'll probably come out with nothing. Keeping ahead is also important just in case you get sick and have to miss lectures. Once you fall behind, it's incredibly difficult to catch back up again. Treat lectures as a SUPPLEMENT to your own self-guided studies.

Kind of a shame everyone seems to sound so cynical about it though.

Not exactly cynical, at least in my case. Just experienced. I did my own studies in the States, with graduate school at top-knotch schools in Germany, the States and Denmark, and six-month research stints in Israel, Greece and the UK. I've been in Poland for ten years, and work closely with all of the universities in Wrocław. On top of that, I mentor students, and know the situation very well. The Polish higher educational system in far inferior those I experienced during my own studies (even Greece). After ten years, I'm still in shock. The level of the practical courses is especially shocking.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
9 Apr 2013 #16
I think that the quality of courses is also affected by the lack of substantial biochemical industry in Poland. So it cannot be very motivating to teach future unemployed. And ratio of people getting lab job after biochemistry in Poland is extremely low. IT department should be much better, because of quite strong IT sector, presence of international IT companies in the city, so because of that teachers know that students are taught to become real engineers.
DominicB - | 2,709
9 Apr 2013 #17
IT department should be much better

No. It isn't. Most of the people I know in Wrocław graduated in IT and related fields from WUT, and/or work in the IT industry in Wrocław. They find themselves at a distinct advantage vis a vis engineers trained in Western countries, especially in terms of practical training. Like I said above, if schools like Imperial College, Stanford, MIT and ETH Zürich score a 10 on a scale from 0 to 10, WUT scores about a 3.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
9 Apr 2013 #18
You write that it's not better, and later state that they have advantage over graduates of western countries...
DominicB - | 2,709
9 Apr 2013 #19
advantage

Oops. My typo. I mean "disadvantage".
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,880
9 Apr 2013 #20
Treat lectures as a SUPPLEMENT to your own self-guided studies.

i thought that was the whole point of university anyway? not being spoon fed information to regurgitate in the exams?
(sorry bad image for this time of morning)
Monitor 14 | 1,820
9 Apr 2013 #21
Why are you surprised. He was simply explaining to the young guy what the university is.
DominicB - | 2,709
9 Apr 2013 #22
thought that was the whole point of university anyway? not being spoon fed information to regurgitate in the exams?

It is. I would have given the same advice if he were going to any university in the world, good or bad.
jwojcie 2 | 763
11 Apr 2013 #23
I more or less concur with previous posters... first year on WUT is mostly about math, physics and basics of software development, algorithms and data structures, and basically students are thrown into a deep water - they either swim or are left behind... it is a reason why there is not many if any at all costly courses at the first year - labs, projects in small groups, etc. - first year is designed as a sieve and catch up phase.

I have no idea how it adds up with studing in English but you should take in mind that there are three departments where you can study computer science on WUT, and they are different:

informatyka.im.pwr.wroc.pl

this one :
wppt.pwr.wroc.pl/index.dhtml
is probably the most theoretical and math oriented
this one:
wiz.pwr.wroc.pl/index.dhtml
is I would say mostly toward software engineering with some management elements
and this one:
eka.pwr.wroc.pl/index.dhtml
is more hardware oriented

as for the first year hardships probably the formal logic and discrete math can be the hardest things mostly due the fact that those fields are not taught extensively at secondary level of Polish schools, and because those are two the most crucial math fields in computer science. Also physics can be a problem, because lecturers usually don't care that students didn't finished yet mathematical analysis courses... anyway for those who likes math first year is not a big problem, for those who don't WUT is just not the right place
Jardinero 1 | 405
8 May 2013 #24
...99% of English language courses in Poland are a complete joke designed to get money from non-EU nationals...

I would challenge that sweeping statement, even though you would probably not have to look very hard to find programmes meeting above criteria. But again, I would be surprised if you didn't in pretty much any other country.

In the medical sciences, for instance (which may not quite reflect the status quo of the technical fields), the US/EU acredited MD (Medical Doctor) programmes in English in Poznań and Kraków do the trick for many by allowing their alumni to successfully compete for specialty trainings/residencies worldwide (in Poznań, for instance, the majority of student come from US/Canada, Norway and Taiwan and work in their home countries upon graduating). I don't know how much it costs today, but several years back the cost of tuition - not to mention living - was 1/3 to 1/2 of those in the US. And obviously the admission criteria are reasonable - not as forbidding as those in some countries. I am told the teaching/theoretical preparation for the US medical exams medical is not that aweful (in Poznań at least), although the practical side is probably lagging behind "western" standards in many areas. But in general, it seems to be doing what it is selling itself for: prepares alumni to successfully enter their respective job markets, is reasonable in terms of admission criteria, wins hands down as far as costs/loans alumni end up accumulating. So overall not a bad option for many for my thinking.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 May 2013 #25
But again, I would be surprised if you didn't in pretty much any other country.

You would? You're welcome to, but the evidence on the ground (professors openly admitting to lower standards, etc etc) suggests otherwise.

do the trick for many by allowing their alumni to successfully compete for specialty trainings/residencies worldwide

They certainly can apply, but the reality of the course in Poznan is that the students are helped to pass by any means necessary. It's commonly known and accepted that a 5 on the international course equals a 3, at best, on the Polish course. Not to mention that the entry requirements are somewhat...looser than for Polish students.

And obviously the admission criteria are reasonable - not as forbidding as those in some countries.

Reasonable? They are open to anyone with the means of payment and a basic high school diploma.

So overall not a bad option for many for my thinking.

Theroetical teaching isn't bad, because these are normally lecturers who teach Polish students too. But the same lecturers (I know several) openly admit that their grading criteria is significantly lower for the international courses as opposed to the Polish courses. Anything to keep the 17k USD coming in!

As for entering job markets, you might want to investigate how many of them actually get a residency/career after graduating. You might get a little surprise...

What you probably don't see/understand is that the course is designed to get money. It works for Norwegian students who accept that it's a course for those with the means to pay as opposed to having the brains, it works for Asian students who often get quite a lot out of living in Europe, but the bitterness of most American students by the 3rd/4th years shines through.

We had one poster on this site who got very upset when reminded that his course was seen as a joke, even by the university itself.
Jardinero 1 | 405
8 May 2013 #26
By Polish standards, WUT is near the top. By world standards, though, it's third rate

Hi again, Dominic. Very sobering observation indeed. As you have been around the academics at several institutions and countries, it would be interesting to know how do you find the faculty at WUT?

I would like to share the following story: Having earned my BS & MS in civil engineeriong from the US, I had met with dean of civil engineering at PUT (Poznań Uni. of Tech.) to discuss my options regarding the dreaded 'nostryfikacja', maybe even a PhD. Once he learned that my alma mater was not a readily recognised name, he started going in the general direction of how superior the Polish higher education system was in maths and sciences to the one I was coming from, how much more the alumni would need to take in order to pass exams and graduate, that a master's degree in Poland would be equivalent to a PhD at most US institutions of higher learning... Needless to say, I was a bit confused, but as I obviously felt obliged for the meeting, I did not want to be rude by asking the question - and knowing the answer - just how many laureates of internationally recognised awards in maths/science have come out of PUT - or any other Polish institution of higher learning for that matter? As far as I know, not one of the Fields Medals or Noble Prizes (sciences) went to a Polish university based academic... ever. Subsequently, I was surprised to find that this is a conviction that is held rather universally by the Poles, grounds typically cited are 'higher levels of teaching/material to covered' at all schooling stages, including the university...;-)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 May 2013 #27
to discuss my options regarding the dreaded 'nostryfikacja

Why did you need to discuss it with him? The best solution would be to submit the documents and see what came of it. It is, however, quite likely that your theoretical knowledge would be lower than the average Polish student, simply because Western universities focus more on practical elements of learning.

I did not want to be rude by asking the question - and knowing the answer - just how many laureates of internationally recognised awards in maths/science have come out of PUT - or any other Polish institution of higher learning for that matter?

Poland doesn't do too well in these things because they aren't well connected in academic circles. Better to look at the demand for graduates.

Subsequently, I was surprised to find that this is a conviction that is held rather universally by the Poles, grounds typically cited are 'higher levels of teaching/material to covered' at all schooling stages, including the university...;-)

The levels are undoubtably higher. It doesn't mean that they're better, but in terms of academic content, Poland still subscribes to the attitude that "more is better" even when it's obvious that graduates have a lack of practical knowledge.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
8 May 2013 #28
By Polish standards, WUT is near the top. By world standards, though, it's third rate. SGH and UW are among the few schools in Poland to be second-rate on a world scale

I really wonder what do you mean by that. These days for employers It doesn't really matter that much what school one did graduate from, It's all about real skills, perhaps top 30-40 univs in the world make some impression, If one did graduate from univ no.108 or 315 is irrelevant really. Or do you mean the rankings actually express the quality of teaching ?
Monitor 14 | 1,820
9 May 2013 #29
@Grzegorz For some employers in the world it's also important from which country somebody graduated. For example Ukraine is famous for corrupted Professors, so many people out of Ukraine would not care that someone graduated best University there, knowing that he could simply buy his way through, and would prefer 2nd league British university graduate. And somehow Ukraine doesn't have any top 300 university. Also most of top 100 world universities are the best in their country. And people know them.
Jardinero 1 | 405
11 May 2013 #30
We had one poster on this site who got very upset when reminded that his course was seen as a joke, even by the university itself.

I know that it's off the topic of the original poster, but wow, for someone relying on hearsay, with obviously little knowledge and understanding of how the medical programmes in English work, without going into the specifics of what they aim to achieve, foreign certification requirements, US state loans approvals, USMLE testing requirements for alumni, you don't hesitate to show off your bias and bitterness... I wonder why?

It seems you are missing the boat entirely by failing to make the effort to understand what these programmes aim to achieve. Competing/comparing with the Polish programme alumni and teaching methods/requirements would probably not be on top of their agenda. You are also wrong when you said that these programmes only require HS diploma. While that may be true for the 6yr MD programme, the 4yr MD I made reference to in previous post requires a set of 'pre-med' education, which you could have easily checked. As a result, most of the students entering this programme already have a BS degree in related sciences.

mdprogram.com/medical-programs-4-year-md.php
But why bother checking, right?

Do you think that the gov'ts guaranteeing loans and respective medical bodies would be willing to consider accrediting a programme they were not happy with? It seems your understanding of accreditation requirements is limited to the ability to conduct teaching in English.You are very quick to label foreign students as essentially inferior/brainless because they have means to pay the tuition, which, for average Polish programme student, surely seems outrageous... Yet most of these students end up having to repay the loans, some are subsidised through their governments.

Note also, most of these alumni have no intention of staying/working in Poland, so they are not a threat to the 'superiorly grilled' Polish programme alumni when competing for work on the local market... I personally know a certain graduating class, where all those dedicated/mature about their studies were successfully accepted in residencies in US/Canada, some are now working in highly selective hospitals in the country... So my question to you, delphiandomine, would be: where is the 'joke'?


Home / Study / How hard is it to get accepted to Wroclaw University of Technology? / Unis in general?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.