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Thinking of buying an offplan Luxury Property Wroclaw


InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
8 May 2012 #61
@Avalon, thank you, but don't UK builders tend to just show the regulations have been met in one of the units per development - ie soundproofing and thermals? The rest never get checked to the same or any extent, do they?

Isn't it the polystyrene or rockwool that keeps Polish flats thermally insulated? I've never seen the same level of insulation in UK flats, look at a UK flat and there is no outer "jacket" of insulation. There might be cavity wall insulation but not polystyrene slabs etc, surely?

Where are your flats, Avalon? If they are in Wroclaw I might know someone who wants to buy and who isn't bothered about prices.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
8 May 2012 #62
but don't UK builders tend to just show the regulations have been met in one of the units per development - ie soundproofing and thermals? The rest never get checked to the same or any extent, do they?

The UK building inspectors are not that stupid, they examine the cavity's to make sure that they are clean and the insulation is fixed properly, if they are suspicious that something has been left out, they can make you knock a hole in the wall or floor and God help you if anything is missing or out of place/incorrect size. They can make you knock the whole building down and start again, your name would be recorded and any future project would be scrutinised. I am not saying that there are no fly by night builders.

Isn't it the polystyrene or rockwool that keeps Polish flats thermally insulated?

Its usually 140mm thick Styrofoam sheets fixed to a single skin 225mm thick concrete/terracotta block wall, 75mm thick Styrofoam sheets are installed under the sand/cement floor screed. Rockwall (fibreglass) is now only used in the loft space, usually to a thickness of 250mm.

I've never seen the same level of insulation in UK flats, look at a UK flat and there is no outer "jacket" of insulation. There might be cavity wall insulation but not polystyrene slabs etc, surely?

You will not see this level of insulation on newly built flats in the UK because the weather is not that extreme, more dampness than freezing. Insulation is usually in the cavity but I know that several new projects were going to use the external Styrofoam slabs as it was more cost effective and of course, more efficient. Cavity wall insulation in the UK is usually 1200 X 600mm X 50mm Polystyrene slabs or Rockwall "Batts"., outer skin is either 100mm thick brick or block work, 50mm cavity, insulation is fixed to cavity side of 140mm insulation block (pumice) by clips on the wall ties which hold the inner and outer skin together. The higher the two skins go, cement drops into the cavity and hits the wall ties, this can cause a "bridge" for moisture to travel along so it is essential that the ties are cleaned off " as you go up" before they are unreachable. One serious problem that has now been resolved was that the ties were made from galvanised, steel wire, brickie's had the habit of twisting the ties flat which caused the galvanised coating to crack away from the steel and over the years the moisture got to the steel which resulted in the ties rusting and expanding, made the walls crack and become unstable. There is a fix for this (fairly expensive and time consuming) but its not the end of the world. Nowadays they use stainless steel or plastic ties, so no problem.

At the end of the day, they are going to use the cheapest, most cost effective way to build in whatever country you are in but there has to be regulated standards for safety, nobody wants to see a building collapse, certainly not like you see these Chinese schools do on a regular basis when large amounts of cement/reinforcing bars are left out so the builder can make more profit.

Sorry if this seems like a lecture but its the only way I know how to explain the building process.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
8 May 2012 #63
Thank you, Avalon, I read all of your post with interest. I don't know where the quality new build UK flats are however, I have only come across shoeboxes where you can hear next door cough. But I guess they must be building them right somewhere in Britain.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
8 May 2012 #64
where you can hear next door cough.

Since 2004, that should be impossible. On the last small block I built, a new regulation came in. On completion of the building (all internal doors on and flooring laid, we had to have a sound test done by an independent Audio Expert who was registered with the council. Cost was 200 pounds per flat. He placed audio meters in the adjacent flats, including above and below, made normal noises at different sound levels in the flat he was testing and then read the meters in the other flats.

We were one of the first companies to pass these tests, the audio engineer told us that other developers had failed and had to carry out extensive additional sound insulation. All flats since 2004 would have to be tested and comply with noise levels, the council will not issue completion certificates without this test being done.

When John Prescott (Labour) said a few years ago that the government were going to build new houses for young couples that were going to cost 64,000 pounds, he was talking out of his ass, you could not build a two bedroom house for that amount of money let alone buy the land. House building in England is expensive, hence the high prices. These people that use to calculation of 3 times salary are stupid, you cannot build for that sort of money unless you can get slaves onto the building sites.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
8 May 2012 #65
When John Prescott (Labour) said a few years ago that the government were going to build new houses for young couples that were going to cost 64,000 pounds,

The Government right to buy calculations for replacement were based on £40k building cost per apartment, around 70m2 I guess. Excluding land of course (given free by the government).
Avalon 4 | 1,068
8 May 2012 #66
And none were ever built.

Therer you are knowitall, I was wrong by 4,000 pounds, you were wrong by 20,000 pounds, at least my memory is not that bad.

bbc.co.uk/news/business-14410589
peterweg 37 | 2,320
8 May 2012 #67
Nothing to do with that.

If you remember they have re-introduced the right to buy with a £75k discount. As part of it they had a consultation document that was used to calculate the viability of the scheme and the £40k figure was the amount they reckoned it would cost to build the replacements sold under right to buy.

Where they got this figure, I don't know.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
8 May 2012 #68
Since 2004, that should be impossible.

I'm pretty sure they were newer than 2004 but I could be wrong. Much appreciate the info on the building regs - it sounds as if you build with pride in the job, probably a lot of smaller developers do of course. But I have heard of big builders who just get the one flat tested and that's it - the others don't get sound checked and wouldn't pass if they did as mortar or debris have made a "sound bridge" between walls and etc. How some other builders skip the test I don't know - but that is what I have been led to believe and that is why the coughing and other sounds are all too audible in those developments, because nobody really checked every flat with meters etc, just the one.

But taking your advice, I will look more closely at the year of build and other factors you detailed if/when I buy in the UK - thanks again for the tips. Will also of course be buying here in Polska although probably going to keep renting for the time being.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
8 May 2012 #69
Nothing to do with that.

If you remember they have re-introduced the right to buy with a £75k discount.

What is your problem? I made a comment on a statement that was issued by the then Labour housing minister, John Prescott. He stated that they could build HOUSES for 60,000 pounds (I was wrong in saying 64,000 pounds)

You butted into a conversation and started going on about 70m2 apartments for 40,000 pounds and the right to buy which I never even mentioned.

You seem to go out of your way to get things wrong and then start arguments, FFS, get a life, or at least start learning your subjects. I have forgotten more about property than you will ever know.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
8 May 2012 #70
I am not involved in any argument with you. This is a public forum and I pointed out another figure the UK government used for calculation, for some reason you have got upset about it. I'm not disputing what you said in any way.
natasia 3 | 368
9 May 2012 #71
I thought this thread was entitled 'Have 50K zl - better to put in as deposit on off-plan scheme, or burn in a big bonfire outside?'
milky 13 | 1,657
9 May 2012 #72
or burn in a big bonfire outside

you might as well, buying Off-Plan when prices are going down is daft.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
9 May 2012 #73
Depends if you get a price and finish you want.
milky 13 | 1,657
9 May 2012 #74
not the right climate atm for such a gamble.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
9 May 2012 #75
Not buying anything at the moment unless I estimate I'd lose the same or less per year on the flat's value than I do in rent
peterweg 37 | 2,320
9 May 2012 #76
not the right climate atm for such a gamble.

Its not a gamble if you get the price you want. Not everything is about property speculation.
milky 13 | 1,657
10 May 2012 #77
Not buying anything at the moment unless I estimate I'd lose the same or less per year on the flat's value than I do in ren

My exact philosophy.

Its not a gamble if you get the price you want. Not everything is about property speculation.

Buy, buying something that has yet to exist is pure speculation, for example in a block near me, people who bought off-plan last year for 45000 m2, would pay 3500m2.

So it is speculation no matter which way you look at it.
BRS 2 | 48
10 May 2012 #78
45000 m2, would pay 3500m2

Freudian slip?

A Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that is interpreted as occurring due to the interference of some unconscious ("dynamically repressed"), subdued wish, conflict, or train of thought. The concept is thus part of classical psychoanalysis.

The 90% price reduction you've been waiting for?
milky 13 | 1,657
10 May 2012 #79
Freudian slip?

No, error , Freudian slip?? how could that be?

The 90% price reduction you've been waiting for?

No 2005 prices actually, whatever % that is.


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