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Rights To Partners Flat In Poland - Cohabiting Agreement


Durkalol 1 | 1
11 May 2010 #1
My partner and myself ( unmarried) for 5 years are looking at buying a property in Poland. We live in the UK and have no current plans to move to Poland. As a national to Poland she has rights to purchase with a small / no deposit, which in this climate is very appealing to be able to build a deposit for a house in the UK as we are unable to afford house prices here. Our aim is that we will both pay for the flat although it will be under her name. My question is : Is it possible to set up a legally binding co-habiting agreement in the UK which would give me entitlement to an agreed split of the property in event of sale, break up e.t.c?
nierozumiem 9 | 118
11 May 2010 #2
As a national to Poland she has rights to purchase with a small / no deposit,

- What process is this? I would suggest both names on the notary contract with a 50 / 50 split on the ownership.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
11 May 2010 #3
What process is this?

I'm wondering the same - I know quite a few people who are struggling under the burden of needing to raise a 25%+ deposit on a mortgage and haven't heard of any such deals for Polish citizens.

Sounds like a nice little scam - get the boyfriend to pay for the flat, then bugger off back to Poland where the flat is nicely in your name and he's unlikely to succeed in obtaining anything back from you.
Harry
11 May 2010 #4
Is it possible to set up a legally binding co-habiting agreement in the UK which would give me entitlement to an agreed split of the property in event of sale, break up e.t.c?

No. If the property is in her name and you are not married, you have no rights to it at all. None. Not a sausage.

As a national to Poland she has rights to purchase with a small / no deposit, which in this climate is very appealing to be able to build a deposit for a house in the UK as we are unable to afford house prices here.

Everybody everywhere in the world has the right to purchase with no deposit: the trick is getting somebody to lend you 100% of the money you need. Here in Poland there is no way in hell any bank is going to lend you that much money.

Sounds like a nice little scam - get the boyfriend to pay for the flat, then bugger off back to Poland where the flat is nicely in your name and he's unlikely to succeed in obtaining anything back from you.

It very much does sound like that.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
11 May 2010 #5
Here in Poland, you can get 120% of the mortgage if you are in a contractual job and can prove you earn enough.
The 20% over the 100% can not be spent on furniture and finishing but must go towards, agency fees, taxes, notaries etc... (sounds silly to me too).

Is it possible to set up a legally binding co-habiting agreement in the UK which would give me entitlement to an agreed split of the property in event of sale, break up e.t.c?

My advice is buy it in your own name, there is no such right as:

As a national to Poland she has rights to purchase with a small / no deposit

.
You, as an E.U. citizen, can buy an apartment here in Poland provided you can prove you earn enough.

I would suggest both names on the notary contract with a 50 / 50 split on the ownership.

This is a compromise, sign a 50/50 ownership split with a notary here in Poland, you will need a sworn translator so you understand what exactly is going on but the notary will insist upon this.

But why bother? just buy an apartment in your own name.

Sounds like a nice little scam - get the boyfriend to pay for the flat, then bugger off back to Poland where the flat is nicely in your name and he's unlikely to succeed in obtaining anything back from you.

This could be the situation and must be avoided.

One more suggestion, if you are not planning on living here in Poland, buy to let to students, then you have some rent coming in and you have a place to stay for the summers, just a thought.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
11 May 2010 #6
This could be the situation and must be avoided.

It very much does sound like that.

Or - she wants somewhere for a relative to live for peanuts. And of course, once they're registered to the flat, they've well and truly got their claws in. The flat can't possibly be sold once Uncle Pawel is in there, can it?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
11 May 2010 #7
Isn't it interesting that men now have to do financial backflips to protect their assets from women? Women have become so much less trustworthy that even in these forums, men have come to realize that they have to protect themselves from laws and judicial systems that favor women.

It's not like the 'old days' when men actually trusted women, indeed, chivalry was paramount. Now, the modern "empowered" woman is looked upon with suspicion, and rightfully so.

Men, protect your money and give women the equality they demand. Make 'em pay for their half!
Harry
11 May 2010 #8
It's not like the 'old days' when men actually trusted women, indeed, chivalry was paramount.

In the old days the idea of the property being in her name wouldn't have occurred to anybody.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
11 May 2010 #9
As a national to Poland she has rights to purchase with a small / no deposit

there is some sort of first time buyer agreement. i know nothing about it though.

if you trust her under these circumstances many would call you a fool.

get yourself over to Poland and get your name on the documents. And don't let her move a family member into the place.

the above posts show real concerns.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
11 May 2010 #10
And don't let her move a family member into the place.

I'd actually go one further and say that you shouldn't allow her to have her name solely on the documents under any circumstances. Non-Polish nationals have it hard enough here - you're not likely to get any sort of cohabitation agreement recognised in Poland as well.

Even if you do jointly buy the place - do *not* let her register anyone to the property. It's okay if it is a genuine arms length deal, but stay well away from letting her register a friend or family member to the flat.

To be honest, there are better places to buy property than Poland.
f stop 25 | 2,513
11 May 2010 #11
50-50 ownership is a nightmare. Ususally it ends up that one person wants to sell and the other one does not.
OP Durkalol 1 | 1
12 May 2010 #12
Let me set the scene.

Her situation working two jobs income £22,000 been living /working for the civil service in the UK 8 years, no debts. I've been with her 5 years!! I've been to Poland many times.

My situation £40,000 income with debts of £15,000

Plan: I will go onto the mortgage after 18 months or so as joint agreement , to be agreed with solicitors e.t.c. In the meantime we will both pay towards the repayment.

Yes she does have a 110% ( covers cost or agents fee's e.t.c) mortgage offer to make repayment of c£350 a month with a plan to over pay the mortgage within 6-10 years max. The mortgage will be under her name and as such if repayments are not kept up all the risk is with her currently.

As regards my comment as a Polish National she has the right to purchase a property with little / no deposit. I should have been more detailed on this. My partner was advised by a financial advisor in Poland it would be more difficult for me /us to be able to get a mortgage as I don't live there. Given they are not aware of my financial circumstances. There is also alot for me to understand about purchasing e.t.c in Poland. The simple process is keep it simple and get it under her name then I come onto the agreement at a later date......

Harry's comment:

'Everybody everywhere in the world has the right to purchase with no deposit: the trick is getting somebody to lend you 100% of the money you need. Here in Poland there is no way in hell any bank is going to lend you that much money'

Exactly my point! Not going to lend me the money!!

Wide accusations of SCAM SCAM SCAM are hurtful . Why so quick to think she is trying to scam me?!

Please keep your comments helpful i've seen enough scamming, bad mouthing on this forum which is really damaging its reputation.

SeanMb most of your comments are helpful I must say throughout your various threads /posts.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
12 May 2010 #13
Yes she does have a 110% ( covers cost or agents fee's e.t.c) mortgage offerto make repayment of c£350 a month.

Avoid like the plague.
mafketis 32 | 10,542
12 May 2010 #14
Wide accusations of SCAM SCAM SCAM are hurtful . Why so quick to think she is trying to scam me?!

She may not have any intentions on scamming you at all. But, be aware, when Polish women break up with non-Polish men, very many of them (not all, maybe not most, but many) acquire a 'take no prisoners and give no quarter' attitude.

If you break up (esp if break up is less than cordial) chances are she will not pay you back any money you feel she owes you and will not live up to any verbal agreement she made previously. She will regard the apartment as hers and hers alone no matter how much money you paid into it (and she will not regard any money you paid into it as anything that she needs to worry about).

Also, in cases of mixed Polish/non-Polish break ups, Polish law used to overtly favor the Polish partner (and that's when they had the benefit of a marriage contract). Even if the regulations have been changed, I doubt if the enforcement has.

Long time residents of Poland who've seen acrimonious break ups (or experienced them) will back up what I've written.

Your girlfriend might be a wonderful person who'd never do anything like that, but enough Polish women (and men) will do things like that that you need to be aware and protect yourself.

My advice: Don't do this unless you get married and both your names are on everything (or you don't mind losing any money you put into it if you break up).

Don't say you haven't been warned.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
12 May 2010 #15
Yes she does have a 110% ( covers cost or agents fee's e.t.c) mortgage offer to make repayment of c£350 a month with a plan to over pay the mortgage within 6-10 years max. The mortgage will be under her name and as such if repayments are not kept up all the risk is with her currently.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster - you overpay quite a bit in the beginning, so the payments are reduced quite a bit. Sensible, if you both own the place - but what happens if she refuses to let you put your name on the property after 18 months? Or worse still, what if she registers someone to the property (I can see that you're not familiar with this concept) who then refuses to leave when you want to sell up for a profit?

If you can't get the mortgage now, there's no guarantee that you'll be allowed to put your name on the mortgage in 18 months. Polish banks are notoriously funny like this - it's better to avoid complications and be a joint owner from the get go.

People on here have seen it all - especially with foreign men being burnt by Polish women. I'm not saying they're all nasty and evil, but if you're serious about buying a property, then you should get married. It'll cover your arse in more ways than one - and personally, I'd be a tad suspicious of a Polish woman who wants you to invest into her property without being married to you.

The simple process is keep it simple and get it under her name then I come onto the agreement at a later date......

Of course, in 18 months time, she won't be able (surprise) to put you onto the mortgage but you'll keep paying. Meanwhile, she'll have a nice place in Poland that you're overpaying for - so even if she comes back with 50% paid off, 700-800zl a month for a mortgage isn't going to hurt her.

Really, sinking money into a property that you have no rights over is really, really stupid.
Harry
12 May 2010 #16
There is also alot for me to understand about purchasing e.t.c in Poland. The simple process is keep it simple and get it under her name then I come onto the agreement at a later date......

Good luck with that: you will have no legal right at all to do it and the banks in Poland are going to think the same about you in a couple of years that they do now.

Wide accusations of SCAM SCAM SCAM are hurtful . Why so quick to think she is trying to scam me?!

We aren't saying that she is trying to scam you. We are saying that we've all seen cases where foreign men have been scammed by Polish women and we've all seen situations where couples split up and the foreign man ends up losing his little all because he's put himself in an impossible situation.

My question is : Is it possible to set up a legally binding co-habiting agreement in the UK which would give me entitlement to an agreed split of the property in event of sale, break up e.t.c?

No it is not possible. If the property is in her name and you are not married, you will have no legal rights whatsoever to the property. None. Nada. The bloke sitting next to you on the bus will have the same rights as you. Seriously.

The mortgage will be under her name and as such if repayments are not kept up all the risk is with her currently.

And as such (assuming the flat is in her name) you will have no rights at all to the property at all. So only invest money that you can afford to lose.

If you break up (esp if break up is less than cordial) chances are she will not pay you back any money you feel she owes you and will not live up to any verbal agreement she made previously. She will regard the apartment as hers and hers alone no matter how much money you paid into it (and she will not regard any money you paid into it as anything that she needs to worry about).

You nailed that one.
inkrakow
12 May 2010 #17
My partner was advised by a financial advisor in Poland it would be more difficult for me /us to be able to get a mortgage as I don't live there. Given they are not aware of my financial circumstances.

I'm sensing quite a lot of bitterness from the male respondents :) but my observation is that if her main source of income (and economic interest) is in the UK then the fact that she's a Polish national will make very little difference to the bank. She will be subject to the same checks and verifications by the bank as you would - particularly if she's got no record of paying tax/ZUS etc here. It sounds as though you may as well get a joint mortgage and make sure both your names are on the deeds. Otherwise, you can get a personal loan in the UK and use it to buy your share of the property outright.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
12 May 2010 #18
Wide accusations of SCAM SCAM SCAM are hurtful . Why so quick to think she is trying to scam me?!

Don't take it personally this is a public forum and the main posts on this thread are a warning, looking after your interests.
Simply speaking, her name is on the deeds, you have no legal right to it whatsoever and that is the bottom line.
We don't know you or her but it would be wrong of us not to tell you that you have no rights and therefore no flat.

I know the opinions expressed can appear cutting but better that you think of the possibilities now than regret anything later. We don't know you or her and advise against the 'worst case scenario', to avoid it.

Heaven forbid anything should happen to her, if she died (sorry for the extreme example) you would be entitled to nothing, same as if you broke up or if she just didn't want to share it after all.

if her main source of income (and economic interest) is in the UK then the fact that she's a Polish national will make very little difference to the bank. She will be subject to the same checks and verifications by the bank as you would

Also a good point.

I recommend you go to mortgage broker in Poland and talk about your options, you should be able to come to an amicable agreement, easily enough.

Where are you thinking of buying?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
12 May 2010 #19
Simply speaking, her name is on the deeds, you have no legal right to it whatsoever and that is the bottom line.

And to stress this - think for a second, if you take her to court in Poland, what's likely to happen? The foreigner who suddenly finds himself being accused of things he didn't do in a Polish court, where he doesn't understand the system isn't going to stand a chance.

Also - there's no guarantee that Polish property is a good investment. Just ask all those Brits who got their fingers burnt in Lodz...
vndunne 43 | 279
17 May 2010 #20
There is also alot for me to understand about purchasing e.t.c in Poland. The simple process is keep it simple and get it under her name then I come onto the agreement at a later date......

It has been mentioned in previous points, but there should be no difference between you getting the mortgage and your partner getting the mortgage, as you both live outside of poland. It does not matter that she is from poland. I would have thought that the bank would much prefer 2 people to be applying for the mortgage as this significantly increases the income, especially that you are on considerably more that her. Also, if you are applying, i would try and be quiet about your debts...
sciencegirl 1 | 4
25 Jun 2011 #21
Buy it in your name, if the two of you marry and return to Poland then see about putting her name on the property. Think about the advice you would give a female relative or friend in this situation and follow that.


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